Hi, I have only been a member here for a couple of weeks, but I've been a Poser4 user since its release. I've spent most of my time here lurking and reading past Poser Forum posts. I'll probably get flamed for this but I would like to express my amazement at the attitude of this community towards Curious Labs and its people. I have never seen such acquiescence in a group of people who, by all rights, should be mad as hell for the way CL has treated them. I AM mad as hell because Poser 4 users have been pretty much ignored by CL since the last patch (which didn't fix much). Oh sure CL people pop in here once in a while and post. They attend conferences and parties and are real nice people, no doubt. But as a business, they ignore their customers' needs. Why haven't they fixed the problems in Poser4 over the years? Glaring and serious problems that even the $200 Pro Pack didn't fix? We've been put off for years with varying excuses, and the one that seemed to work best was the most recent. The good ol' "We can't fix it because we're putting all our efforts into Poser 5." How long have they been using that one? And it wasn't even true when they first started using it. How do I know? That bomb Avatar Lab. If they were putting all efforts into P5, where did Avatar Lab come from? And that program itself was a slap in the face to Poser users. Who the hell needed Avatar Lab? Who even knew what an 'Avatar' is? How many of you bought it (don't fib)? Three? Four? Okay, CL was trying to expand, that's good. But a niche product (A Lab) designed for another niche product (atmosphere) designed for a niche service (web sites that use it) designed for another niche service (the internet). Sheese! I'm on the web every day and have not seen one avatar anywhere. I and most everyone here would easily have paid the price of Avatar Lab for a Poser 4.5 upgrade that fixed just SOME of these problems: 1) multiplying magnets 2) the magnets themselves (awful to work with) 2) jumping cameras 3) memory leaks and computer lock ups 4) terrible texture handling 5) crosstalk 6) horrible, antiquated "library" (file) system 8) impossible-to-read dial lables 9) mysterious, unmoveable "window-in-the-upper-left-corner" And those are just off the top of my head. And I don't do animations, there's probably a few in that area, too. You know, I wouldn't be nearly so steamed at CL if they would have just been honest and forthcoming from the beginning. Instead, for years, we got this or something similar: Me: "Can you fix the file system? It shouldn't be that difficult." CL: "Sorry, we're working on Poser 5. Me: "OOOh, will it be fixed in P5?" CL: "Sorry, can't talk about P5." Me: "Well, what features will it have? CL: "Sorry, can't talk about it." Me: "Approximately when will it be out." CL: "Can't tell you that." Me: "About how much will it cost?" CL: "Can't say." Me: "You can't say ANYTHING? Why?" CL: "Competition." Me: "But you DON'T HAVE ANY!" CL: "Oh, yeah. But I still can't tell you." Me: "But you're the president of the company. You really mean you WON'T tell me." CL: And now they finally announce P5 and some of its features. They've doubled the full price and STILL haven't told us the upgrade price. They've added features that many will never use (although I like the new features), but haven't mentioned if they fixed the old problems. Multi-processor support, which should have been in the ProPak, is not mentioned. Ooh, but there's strand-based hair! Was that high on the Poser 5 wish list? I might have missed it but I didn't see one mention of it reading the past posts. Material Editor???? How many asked for that? Like I said, I'll enjoy these features (as long as the old bugs are fixed), but how many Poser hobbiests will? Were these features really geared for the general populace of Poser users? Or is CL trying to leave them behind? My final point: What truly amazes me is that this community not only acquiesces to this treatment, but many here SUPPORT it. They actually adopt and agree with CL's excuses. I believe this attitude helps make Steve Cooper comfortable with the way he's done business. But in truth, if he did have competition, he'd be OUT of business. I and many others here would have dropped Poser like a hot rock if there was a viable alternative. Don't believe me? Look what happened to Word Perfect Corp. when they began this same thing. And they were huge compared to CL. We are CL's custmers, we've given them our money. We deserve a product that works, not excuses and delays. Would you put up with this treatment for any other product you've purchased? Yet, when Mr Cooper shows up here, many of you rush to kiss his butt instead of demanding fair treatment. I guess I understand, though. If you demanded straight answers and fair treatment, he may not show up at any more parties. Flame on. I'm going back to lurking. Thanks for listening.