Finally some information on the long overdue Poser 5 and gee, what a surprise, the Mac users get screwed again. I had my concerns when the rather non-Mac friendly Corel took over Bryce, yet they came through with a multi platform release with Bryce 5. Now we get...Poser 5 will initially be available for the Windows platform only. Details about a Macintosh version will be announced soon. So now the speculation begins...announcement for the Mac when? In several months, to be released next year sometime. I read something on the forum about CL waiting for Apple to get back to them on some coding issues...I have a hard time buying that when Maya, Vue and many games are all releasing OS X versions of their software and have been for awhile now. Its very disappointing that an app. that started on the Mac has fallen into the Windows first trap.

Right now Poser is the ONLY software thats keeping me from never using the antiquated OS9 ever again. Im so tired of CLs sloth development and while P5 looks pretty good and Ill probably still get my MAC copy when/if it comes out...I just wish CL had some/any competition to keep them honest...

My guess is that we wont see a new Mac version for quite some time. I truly hope CL proves me wrong and makes me eat my words, but from their track record, I highly doubt it.

At least CL is making the effort to still support the Macintosh format.

I came, I rendered, I'm still broke.

You need to complain to Apple... sounds like they're not returning Kupas calls.

Quit trying to be different and buy a computer that normal people use, damn it! I'll bet you all have green mohawks and pierced eyeballs, too. Grow up and join the herd, and quit your god-damned whining. "Wah, I bought some weird deviant computer, now I can't get software for it and I'm missing out on all the fun the normal people enjoy! sob" It's getting really tiresome. PS: In one recent thread, Kupa stated that the delay of the Mac version stems from a total lack of cooperation from Apple, so I guess the company you think is so wonderful couldn't care less about you, either.

CL had two major alternatives in choosing how to focus their resources: 1) Develope and deliver both versions simultaniously. In other words, both come out (and generate revenue) later but at the same time. Everybody gets it later, and CL has to wait longer to see revenue. 2) Focus on the most common OS first. This way, the majority of users get it earlier than they would with option (1,) the Mac users get it the same time they would with option (1,) and the Windows version is generating income while the Mac version is in development. Looks like an easy choice to me, both from the standpoint of making more customers happy sooner, and generating capitol for CL...

Oftn, when a PC user asks for help with a hardware problem, some Mac user will respond, "Buy a MAC!" So, in payback for all those times, my response to your problem is, "Buy a PC!" PS: This really is good advice.

This blatant CPU chauvinism truly is pointless. Stick with the operating system that you prefer and allow others to do the same. Yes, I use a Mac I have preferred Apple products since the day I got my Apple II+. Yes, I remember the day when Poser and Bryce were part of one big happy family, and the days before that. When Poser 5 comes out, it simply means that the days of using Poser at home and work, courtesy of the hybrid CD-ROM format, will be over. At work, I must endure Windows XP. Will I buy a separate version of Poser, simply to use on this loathsome OS? No. Now my Poser time will be exclusively at home, once Poser 5 for OS X arrives. For the record, I am not purchasing Photoshop 7 for Windows, either CorelDRAW 11 ships with the Mac and PC versions on the same CD, so I will use Photo-PAINT and support a company that supports the same initiatives that I uphold, as they demonstrated with the cross-platform release of Bryce 5 and now CorelDRAW 11.

lol@x2000 honestly tho, cl needs some cash flow and getting this release out soon is a good thing for everyone. From a programming standpoint...setting up things to work the same on both computer os is really a pain. Anyone that messes with even the simplest coding..even html..will attest to this. hell, my amapi cd and I have been going around and around just to get stinking flash files to run flawlessly off a mac cdrom. And lord knows that an app like poser has GOT to be a nightmare in programming. My hat's off to CL for keeping it low priced and compatible with older OS. patience... BT

I deal with both types of computers - a PC at work and a Mac at home. And while I am disapointed that the Mac version of Poser will be delayed, I'd still rather wait a bit for the Mac version than buy PC for home. :-) Seriously, I agree that the important thing is that CL is developing a Mac version - if it takes a bit longer to get right, well I can live that. Poser 4 will still be a useful tool and I can still do good art with it. While the pictures in the CL gallery are gorgeous I did not see anything that immediately identified them as being Poser 5 versus Poser 4 - they all could have been done in Poser 4 with postwork (in some cases a great deal of postwork I admit). So while using Poser 5 will no doubt make certain things alot easier, it won't mean that if you don't have it you can't do good art. I'm still waiting for the G5 Mac too. :-)

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Wouldn't suprise me. I'm a big mac fan, but I also know that unless you're a big company, who's software will make Apple look good, or who's software Apple actively needs then your chances of getting support are practically nill. try www.macintouch.com for links and opinions, they'll link you to other sites... later jb

Hmm... I didn't mean to imply that Poser 5 wasn't a great step foward - I'm sure it is. Just that one can still do beautiful art with Poser 4 while waiting for the Mac version of Poser 5 to come out.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Thanks for all the good advices. I just trashed my Mac and bought a PC. Now I am compatible to Microsoft. Yes, Im equal now, no more difference! I even killed Netscape and use now IE. Avi, wmv and wave... this is my world now. But hey - what is this? I changed RAM and HD and now my OEM version of Windows does not work anymore? And why does my sound card sounds so crappy? Oh my god... just a nightmare. I fell asleep but now i am awake and my G4 is still there... And what the hell is BIOS?

No, I'm quite sure that Poser 5 is the end-all be-all of computer graphics and anyone (especially Mac users) using an earlier version will only a step above doing cave paintings. Anyone who doesn't immediately upgrade the moment the PC version becomes available isn't really an artist at all. Plus, they'll NEVER get laid ever again. Don't say you weren't warned.

Doerp, if you're still using a Mac, your nightmare isn't over. Join us. You KNOW you want to. Resistance is futile. You don't know the POWER of the Dark Side!

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to PC. PC leads to suffering! x2000: "NEVER get laid ever again." Again? Hey - does anyone remembers the computers of the Knight Rider Foundation? These were machines...

I never participate in this type of thread but... Please bear in mind that the mac has always been in the majority in the creative end of computer use. Still is today. Ive been in the graphics arts business since 1989. Photoshop wasnt available for the pc. It was a MAC ONLY program, ALL the creative programs were MAC ONLY. I think about the only thing we had was a vector program named GEM Draw. Some mac user in a recent thread said something to the effect that, program developers arent even saying theyre sorry anymore when a program isnt available for the mac. Hell over the years, Ive NEVER seen, Im sorry this program is mac only. The pc catalogs I get all have references to the mac version of the program or a mac catalog section. Have you seen a pc section in a mac catalog? The mac users would start a boycott. Apple users then and now scowl at pc users as unfit to be in THEIR universe. Unlike Jackson, over the years EVERY time Ive had occasion to need some assistance the ONLY advice Ive ever gotten from a mac user is BUY A MAC!. I could never figure out if that crappy, juvenile attitude came in the box with the os, or people with that attitude all buy macs. Now that the worm has turned a little, and a FEW programs are getting off their knees and recognize some other os beside the mac, the macheads are screaming bloody murder. macheads, youll get no sympathy from me. Sorry for the rant. Pinto

-WindowsXP has never crashed on me. -I have absolutely no problems with hardware, it generally finds anything and installs it with little imput from me. - I can upgrade any portion of the computer I feel like, at any time ( recently replaced the motherbaord, cpu and ram; which btw was back up and running in an hour) - First pick on any software - There's no monster under my bed Honestly, I really don't even see the point in there being a Mac. Fine its there, its got a different OS that I don't find to be any easier to use, at all. Its generally last in the technology upgrade race. Its not even competition enough to fuel innovation on the PC side. There's more than enough internal strife for that. What do you all get out of owning one? I looked at getting an ibook instead of a normal laptop for a secondary computer, and there just was really no point at all to do so. Anything it can do, a PC can do just as well, just as easily. The days when the Mac was "so much easier" are long dead and done. And those irritating commercials from Apple these days are nothing but outright lies.

Chill, guys. I've known for awhile that CL's Mac version of Poser 5 would be delayed and had time to get used to the idea. You will, too. I take every opportunity I see to remind kupa about all the Mac folks out here waiting to get their hands on P5, but let's get real---cashflow isn't just "nice to have," it's vital to a small company. Kupa knows Apple well and he knows how many outstanding graphics professionals would never switch from Macs. The number used in the movie industry alone is a pretty good indicator of the Mac's value. Macs may be fewer in number than IBM's and their clones, but when has being in the majority been any reliable indicator of worth or fitness? Kupa knows we're here. Just hunker down and reflect on how lucky we are that Macs are still around. And, like Daio says, superlative art has a lot more to do with the artist than the tools......

ASRAI: As to competition for Curious Labs, I'm sure that Lightwave or 3d Studio would probably do what you want.

XP has died on me twice, it's more memory efficient than 9x versions of windows, but that's about it. Try tweaking under the hood, or installing the wrong software at the wrong time and it still dies for no reason. In place of a decent working system they have simply added a new face and lots of popup boxes telling you that what you're about to do will make your OS unstable. "Do you want to continue? (y/n)" Some may see this as an advance, I don't. I installed some new DVD software, it killed my machine, I tried to roll back only to find that it had switched off the backups without asking me to save space, becuase the OS alone had run the 2Gb boot partition I gave it out of space... I consulted the MS press book "XP for sysadmins" it told me that in situations where drive space was tight, it would switch of rollback archiving. went into the technicalities of how to switch it back on, and how to save space, etc. it refered me to another page. There It told me that if I couldn't roll back, I could attempt to rebuild by building an identical external system, and copying part of it across, (but a full explanation of this was "out of scope") or I re-install, or "consult a professional" In comparison, the worst I've ever had to do with a Mac is re-jig the order in which system components (drivers) load. I've extensivly tweaked them to make them do things they were never designed to do. (budgets are short in UK universities :) and even with the abuse that computer illiterate students give them, I still never had a problem with them except for obscure things like the NV-RAM battery dying. Admitedly, PC users coming to a mac, may find it harder, because the two OS'es operate in different ways. But I can tell you from experience, that users with no computing knowledge always find macs easier to use, if only becuase of the consistent "look & feel" and the single mouse button. It's sad that Mac users have to wait, but not unexpected, especially given the numbers involved. later jb

Mac is about 10% of the total market, so why should CL break it's ass doing the two parallel? Hell no, of course they do it in the right order, anything else would be foolish. Simple. :] FishNose

I have never had a MAC and never wanted one. Years ago, way back in the 80's, I thought that Apple computers were way over priced and the software support even then skimpy. Over the years nothing that Apple computer has done has changed my mind at all. Remember the big format wars of the 80's? Betamax or VHS? Betamax was a better system, smaller and less expensive but it lost it the VHS which is now going the way of Betamax because of DVDs. It's not so much a matter of joining the herd as it accepting that one system is on the fringe and maybe dying out or getting the system that is mainstay.

Well, I should have known that this would have started the OS wars. I have to say that the PC rules comments are good for a laugh, especially the ones that try to justify conformity, regardless of preference, is the cool thing to do. It is nice to see some intelligent comments from both sides though. Personally I couldnt care less what OS people choose to use. The point is that CL has taken what seems like forever to get P5 even mentioned on their web site, much less produced for its customers. Obviously Im happy that they will be supporting OS X, just disappointed with their vagueness as to when.

I can't even count the times I've been witnessing a thread like this. I've never participated before but this time I can't help it. If the reason for P5 mac version's delay is indeed Apple not co-operating with Curious Labs, why on earth do you blame CL for it? Buy a PC and quit moaning. :P

Asrai,I'm sorry that all of these people are flaming you. My grandfather owned a Mac and he used to speak very highly of it. I've always cheered for the underdog . . . it's like when Bjorn Borg tried to make a comeback with his tiny wooden racket, because it had worked so well for him in the 70's. But I still think that a Mac would make a good upgrade for anyone tired of their PII/66mhz with 16megs of RAM. But maybe it's time for you to quit your whining, wake up and smell the cappucino. Macs have gone the way of the dodo bird. Most commercial designers that I know have already switched over. Mac is no longer even close in the technology race and loses ground every couple of months. Ever hear of DDR or RDRam? Mac offers only low-bandwith SDRam. Intel is approaching 3 gigahertz and will be 10 gigahertz within the next couple of years. Mac's latest technology ... 866mhz?? I have to admit, Macs are pretty ... 2002 styling with 1982 technology. Plus, whenever you boot up, you have to wait for those damn vacuum tubes to warm up ... Frankly, I think that you should be grateful that CL is catering to Mac users at all, instead of criticizing them for not treating it the same as the more profitable Windows market.

Buy a PC and quit moaning? I always thought moaning starts with buying PCs :-)

I have no problem with Poser 5 for macintosh coming out later. I understand that the Win version is going to be a larger money maker, and that it needs to get out there to bring in some revenue. I'm very dearly hoping they are taking the extra time to be sure P5 will be rock solid on both platforms equally like Corel and Adobe products are. -Adam

Conformity, or continuity? I find the two platforms completely interchangeable, with neither one being very different from the other. I think the idea that there are glaring differences is just a hold over from the days when there really were major differences. Both of them make toast that looks the same, tastes the same, is cooked in generally the same way, but only one of them fits the most sold size of sliced bread. So you can either wait for people to make Poser RyeBread 5 in a size that fits your toaster, or you can cut off the edges and put it in your toaster as is (a virtual windows engine). Either way everyones going to end up making that same crispy bread product; with a little strawberry jelly if you are lucky.

(((I have never had a MAC and never wanted one. Years ago, way back in the 80's, I thought that Apple computers were way over priced and the software support even then skimpy.))) Funny. I love hearing people who try to make it a matter of price. I'm sure you also bought the cheapest car, and the cheapest house, and always the cheapest clothes? If quality is any part of your decision process for anything, you're way off base here. Software support skimpy? Compared to Microsoft? Huh. But then, Macs (and Mac users) don't need much support. Which leads to the main reason Macs have always been cheaper, especially in a corporate environment. (But IT hates it because it basically puts them out of a job.) (((Honestly, I really don't even see the point in there being a Mac.))) You should. First off, without the Mac, Microsoft would own approximately 100% of the market instead of around 95%, and life for PC users would be far worse than it is. They'd have absolutely no motivation for even second-hand innovation. Second, Apple has often been called "Microsoft's research division", and much of what Microsoft has deigned to improve has been copied from or motivated by Apple. (Of course if Xerox had known how to capitalize on PARC the world might be way different.)

Being different always has it's price, but it usually beats the alternative. As for never being competitive to PC, hmmm.... I wonder where windows came from? As for a system dying out, as long as a 20 year old aspiring musician can take their 3 year old, lowly G3 iMac they got in HS and turn it into a music recording studio with the purchace of a 4 track and a CD Burner (around $400, ProTools was free) and another can edit the film they made on their parents cancorder with a program shipped free with the computer, Mac will be with us.

1/ The wording on the site mentions both OS9 and X--I hope that it will be available both ways. 2/ I hope also that it is optimized for the Mac, unlike Poser4. 3/ Too bad it doesn't support multiple processors (G4 dual)--it seems crippled on the Mac already. 4/ Please proof the files so that everytime I try to load something it claims it can't find "blah.tif" or whatever the PC filename was. 5/ Take your time and get it right--I still haven't forgiven you for Poser 4.0.....times were tough, I realize.

this my OS/machine is better than yours fight is just daft, I've used Mac's in the past & I'm using a PC now, both systems have their strong points & weak points, the biggest reason for CL to get the PC version out first is probably because they have more people experienced with pc programming than with mac. I've said this before, PC's have evolved & continue to evolve because there are so many companies making their own version, Mac's are hampered by being tied to one company exclusively, until Apple allows other companies access to make their own version Mac's will continue to lose ground to pc's, Apple are going to be the architect of their own downfall if they don't do something soon. Rob

These discussion never go anywhere, because its generally the million year spin straw to gold, and back again stuff... but.. "If quality is any part of your decision process for anything, you're way off base here." Price has nothing to do with quality in that comparison. Bottled water from Le Pierre La Poo Poo, may cost 10 dollars. Its still water. "Software support skimpy? Compared to Microsoft? Huh." You missed the point there; He meant software availablility. As for computer support, which is what you were referring to, I've worked in retail computer support and had to field calls for both platforms. Percent wise ( i.e. the number of systems sold vs incomming calls) Mac users have just as many problems. "They'd have absolutely no motivation for even second-hand innovation." You didn't read further down my post. I would wager that as far as hardware goes; Intel is paying far more attention to AMD, than Motorola. Nvidia is trying to fend off ATI, not Apple. And Microsoft is far more afraid of Linux than OSX. In fact I doubt Microsoft even cares, as you will remember them shoving money Apple's way to pick them off the ground. Business wise they probably find Apple a useful smokescreen. "Second, Apple has often been called "Microsoft's research division"," Maybe a long long time ago. I mean really that was ages ago. Apple isn't the sole owner of all new programming talent that has been born over the last 2 decades. And well... "Xerox has often been called "Apple's research division" because without those talente, wonderful people at Xerox, not Apple, the mouse and gui wouldn't exist. Apple just knew how to take someone else's idea and capitalize on it. Oh but I forget, thats exactly what MS did.. huh.

If PC's suck so bad how come we don't have Virtual MAC for them? :) From a tech stand point I know the only reason our institution still uses the limited number of MAC's is because we can't get certain professors to use PC's because they "learned everything on a mac" and can't figure out how to operate a PC correctly. If you're upset that the MAC version will be delayed, well that's a bummer, but you should have realized that was almost always the case when you bought the MAC.

Actually as a Poser PP user I am more concerned that the plug ins won't work. Hopefully by the time the Mac version comes out, the plug ins will be ready. Now, Mac users, if it's true Apple is being unsupportive, lets go to them and B***h rather than waste time on this arguement (I know I am guilty too). PC users aren't going to help get P5 Mac out any sooner.

Btw, I have nothing against Mac's or Mac-users... I just like debates =)

I have an accursed PC (for testing purposes) at the Office but my primary machines are Macs. I like to think of it this way. Let the PC users do the testing and make the first mistakes. Let them curse their way through the manuals and then write easy-to-use tutorials. Let them get slaughtered on the beachhead so I can follow up and take Berlin! I don't blame CL, it makes good business sense. My Mac is worth it.

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

mikes said: "1/ The wording on the site mentions both OS9 and X--I hope that it will be available both ways." Personally, I hope they don't waste their time with an OS 9 version. OS X v10.2 will not ship with an OS 9 disc and it's rumored that the next generation of Mac hardware won't support booting into OS 9. Classic will still be around, I suppose.

This thread is becoming ridiculous. Don't expect any official comment from CL in braindead platform flamewars like this. Stefan PS: We all know the truly smart people own both computers :) Nothing beats a cuddly iBook or a classy Titanium as companion for a big bad GHz-loaded Windows workhorse.

Well I know I sit around at least 8 hours a day moaning in agony chanting " I shoulda bought a mac" I mean I can't get anything at all done with the computer crashing every second mouse-click. And then there's all that fancy new hardware to choose from and upgrade to; a person could go broke from having all that stuff avaiable. And don't get me started on the software. I mean geez. Talk about time consuming to go through all those choices. I'd much rather be forced to use one product. And the games, oh those evil games. I mean do you know how much more work I'd get done if I wasn't able to play all these games?! I think they are right. We are all deluded fools, we should buy macs, eat white bread only, and all drive vw beetles. That's the way of the future!

I have nothing against Mac's & Mac users, it's a real shame we can't all have poser5 at the same time, just think tho by the time Mac poser5 comes out there will be people who can help guide you through your first few days of poser5 addiction. Thats got to count for something. Rob

Yeah and PC users are like those adventurous crazy types, you know the kind of people those 50s public service films warn you about.. We will shake out all the bugs for you. That way you won't have to deal with anything out of the ordinary when it gets to ya. =D

"I think they are right. We are all deluded fools, we should buy macs, eat white bread only, and all drive vw beetles. That's the way of the future!" Mac users only eat wheat bread, MallenLane. And they don't eat strawberry jelly, only orange marmalade. And they don't drive cars, they ride bicycles. And they're better for it, damn it!

looks at clock, waits for this thread to get booted to OT

LOL x2000 I'm sorry. I was jsut being funny, joking. Honestly, I use Lightwave, Photoshop, and Poser to produce my work. All three are Mac or Win. All three produce the same end result no matter what machine its happening on. I find the comparison of the machines funny-silly-frivilous. Because its more important the quality of the software that is being used, and the person who's using it. Really the machine the work is happening on is irrelevant, beyond basic horsepower to accomplish the task at hand.

Actually it's whole wheat and raspberry jam. Mmmm. Raspberry is the best in all things.

While my original post was never meant to start an OS war, leave it to the PCers to knee-jerk a justification for their platform of choice. I take no offense to the flaming and as I stated previously, I find it amusing...especially the idiotic Quit Moaning and the buy a pc responses. Fact is, I used PCs for many years, which is precisely why I use a Mac now.

My beef is, while most other software companies have been releasing timely, if not, concurrent dual platform releases for quite some time now, I dont get CLs lag for OS X. All the other developers have been able to meet the demands and OS X has been around for a while now, so I guess Im having a hard time buying the Apples not calling them back excuse.

[[I find it amusing...especially the idiotic ?Quit Moaning? and the ?buy a pc??]] Yeppers, it's just as amusing as the idiotic "buy a Mac" which is the macusers' SOLE answer to EVERY single thing that EVER comes up about pc's.

Hey, anytime a PCer has a problem with their computer, the MACers say, "Get a MAC," so don't feel bad - it's equal opportunity obnoxiousness. Like a few others said, think of us as gamma-testers for the MAC version. ;-)

look on us as guides into the unknown territory of poser5, you will want help when you finally get poser5 won't you? Rob

So I wade in... this is a silly arguement... I think the important issue is that there are two communities of Poser (mac and windows users) who both provide valuable content so that it is disappointing that the output will narrow until both personal computers are up and running. It will be interesting to see what sort of Poser 5 content will be produced and how will Poser 4 deal with it. As a mac user, I find it suprising how much of the pc-only poser stuff is usable and it is only those files that use .exe that are unusable.

Jobs (Apple's chief scapegoat) has finally given long-time Mac users a choice after 17 years in which we never had to give a thought to getting a PC. During that time, we believed Macs were better, and that every Mac OS innovation would show up two years later in the next Windows release. We knew we had much fewer software choices than Windows users, but we were smug about our user-friendly OS. Then in 1999-2000, Apple made the fatal error of deciding to sell Unix work-stations during the fake prosperity of the Internet bubble years. Having dropped all support for the Mac platform, Apple is now competing with both PC and Unix workstation manufacturers in a declining market. Formerly loyal Mac users are familiar with the horror stories of bizarre OS X flaws (kernel panics, can't empty trash, mail doesn't work, can't find apps, beachball of death, can't log on) that would even make a hardened Win95 user blanch. These same users now realize that a switch to Win ME or XP will be no more troublesome or scary than a switch to a non-intuitive Unix workstation where they are forced to be a system admin instead of a software user, and every question they ask is met with condescending, defensive, obfuscatory command-line gibberish.

Attached Link: http://www.weirdass.net

Ahem, 1) my standard response- This silly argument has been going on for nearly twenty years. PCs are good for things, so are macs. You don't use a cuisineart to mow the lawn, and you don't use a ferrari to pull a plow. So do the math. 2) OSX 10.2 (Jaguar) just went golden master this week. Developers have been working with something close to its environment, but without GM you can't finish an app. So do the math. 3) PCs carry an impressive suite of capabilties. I might even buy one do to a real interest in what 3ds Max can do. As far as developing for the Mac- CL is a graphics ssoftware company. About 10-15% of the Wintel world is involved with graphics production, while 90-95% of the Mac world is image creation oriented. So do the math.

It's true that mac OS stability has come at a price. Now that I'm running OS X, I definitely feel much less in control of my operating system, much as I do on my Win 2000 machine at work. Locked folders of mysterious files... permissions issues, etc.. yeah, OS X is a mixed blessing. On the brighter side, it's rock solid. I bought my G4 in April and have yet to experience a system software crash. the closest I came was playing Wolfenstein. Wolf crashed and it didn't kill the OS, but I was stuck in full-screen gaming mode with no choice but to reboot :-( In 4 months though, I think one crash while running a ported-from-windows video game is pretty good!! I don't like having to be the one-man IT staff for my home unix computer, but I like how it doesn't crash. As for getting a PC to run 3DS Max... why? With Lightwave, Maya and Cinema 4D on the mac platform, I really don't see the need. I've worked in 3DS max at work, and I don't think it's so hot. I much prefer C4D and Lightwave on the Mac (on either platform, for that matter). If you find yourself longing just to try it, go ahead, but try it on someone else's machine--don't run out and buy the PC first... -Adam

" I fell asleep but now i am awake and my G4 is still there... And what the hell is BIOS?" even mac has a bios, just because apple hides it doesn't mean it's not there. no bios, the system has no clue how to access ram, the hd, nothing. mandrake now has available a version of mandrake linux, ported for the mac hardware. want to see what osx was supposed to be? get this. linux is a port of unix for pc platform, but since mandrake 6.1 and redhat 6.1, you do not need to even see the command prompt if you don't want to. they give you the option of booting straight into a gui as BOTH win and mac FORCE you to do. don't want to be a unix sysadmin? get linux, it automates it all, better than winblows does. and is as stable, or more stable than mac os.( win nt and mac os and unix/linux are all very similiar under the hood ...command prompt tool set) single button mouse? I use a three button mouse, why would I want to even loose one button (win) never mind 2? and remember, MAYA'S Linux version is better than either mac or win version. ~G~ as the os is better. according to alias wavefront, the producers of MAYA.

Okay, I'm doing the math: According to businessworld.com and MACCentral.com just under 3.5% of the market is Apple as of June 2002. Out of 10,000 users: Approximately 9650 are PC users. Approximately 350 are MAC users. If only 10% of the PC users do graphics, that's 965 users. If 95% of MAC users do graphics, that 333 users. (Yes, I rounded up.) Hmmm ... why target the PC market first? Sorry guys.

Legume started this war... will somebody reach over and give him the spanking he so obviously wanted. TIA.

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

silence

MAC or PC... there are no major differences if you are doing 2D graphics, audio or video editing. But for 3D the answer is clear : get a PC (either win2000 or win XP pro) !

Many 3D softwares don't run on MAC (Softimage, Houdini, StudioMAX, etc...)... And if there is a MAC version of the core application, then it's a plugin that is not compatible with the MAC OS (Next Limit Real Flow, Promethean FX, etc...) or a rendering engine. Moreover, hundreds of little useful applications (freeware modelers, texture generators, etc...) are only available for PCs.

Concerning "pure performance" the G4 are now very weak compared to the latest Athlon and Pentium processors. Most of the 3D softwares companies are even optimizing their applications for Athlon and Pentium 4 processors. Take for example the forthcoming Cinema 4D 8 : the rendering engine will be 30% faster. But only on PCs! And don't think that it's only "targeting" a bigger market. Here is the answer that MAXON gave to the MAC users :

---

"The new render speed improvements have been gained partly due to more optimised code, but also because Maxon is able to take advantage of the new features on modern processors such as the Athlon and Pentium 4.

Unfortunately there have been no such improvements on the Mac side because the G4 chip is beginning to show its age. Should a new chip be release by Apple, this would be supported as soon as possible. It is simply a fact that other than MHz increases, the Macintosh Processors have had no real improvements in recent years."

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And this is something that even MAC users complain about. Apple release new cute little machines, but there is no improvement of the system itself. So, if you're into 3D graphics and animations : get yourself a PC. It means better performance, more choice and lower price !

:) Eric

Well good evening Tavern what can I say youve been a terrible audience and now you have to be PUNiiiiiiiiiiiiSHED!!!!!!!!! but more on that latter what about something loud raunchy and heavy just to get us moving We all came out to Montreaux On the Lake Geneva shoreline To make records with the Mobile We didnt have much time Frank Zappa and the Momas Would have the best place around But some stupid with a flare gun Burnt the place to the ground sorry, is this RADIO FREE IRONBEAR?

Let the bodies hit the floor, Let the bodies hit the floor, Let the bodies hit the floor, Let the Heeeyyyyyyyyy!

Before they made me they broke the mold!
http://home.roadrunner.com/~kflach/

we are NOT getting screwed!! Poser 5 for OSX will be in beta very soon :-) Look how long we waited for mimic BUT if you have stuck in the past with OS9 well...... :-( OSXers have patience i dont plan on buying poser5 until the OSX Cinema or lightwave plugin is ready anyway relax :-)

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WOW, thanks for session Legume. How much do I owe you...LOL? I forgot just how impressed you are with yourself. Everyone be aware that youd better not voice any opinion with Legume around...after all, we all know his is the only one that matters, regardless of how he makes himself look...Now, back to my wining ... a very nice Chianti...

Yes, Legume...what a gift you have for explaining it all. Now I can get some sleep and stop whining. Maybe tomorrow buy a PC...then e-mail Curious Labs and say "thanks" and "I'm sorry." Perhaps even attempt to engage or flatter Steve Cooper in as many posts as possible. Golly...so very much to do...

Yes, you are. In fact, you are the fuckingest TITS around. No one--and I mean--no one's fucking TITS even come close to your very own fucking TITS. I know what your thinking but no, no...not even ronknight's. Congratulations. Now please take one and pass the rest back...

I--and my tits--salute you...(and your tits, of course)

Now that does it. I skimmed through here and decided not to get involved in the "Mac vs PC" battle. You've gone too far. How do you know what my tits look like? I never posted a picture of myself bare-chested! I'm too ashamed of my fat body! Now you have to suffer by looking at my Fat, Magnificent Body. Oh, and yes, and believe it or not I was actually interested in a Mac recently, and asked a few questions about Macs. Just check out the Macintosh forum. I decided to stay with PC's. My understanding is that Poser for Macintosh is being delayed due to lack of cooperation from Apple. So if you have some complaints, then throw your darts at your beloved Apple Computer Company. 

Oh geez. Be afraid. Be very afraid...

LOL... Fat IS magnificent :)Never be ashamed of what the goddess gave ya Ron! If it wasn't for my plus-sized Adonis...I'd never have any new toys for my Vicky to play with :p Besides, who needs pillows when you have a big man (or woman) to snuggle with!

I was a bit chubby for a few years. However, I can thank my wife's home cooking for the bulk of my magnificent bulk. I've been married less than 3 years, and my lovely wife is an excellent cook. The hell of it is that I really don't eat all that much. Legume, this is probably the sexiest picture I can come up with, since I haven't had any taken without a shirt. Of course, I do have a web camera, but I think I'll spare the community such nonsense. 

If you weren't revolted enough by that image already, here is a picture of my wedding reception. I tried to dance with my lovely wife, but in the end, I gave up, went outside to have a cigarette and sat down to catch my breath. My wife swore that those lovely disposable 35mm cameras would be good enough to capture our wedding memories. Maybe she wasn't counting on the poor lighting in the church and the local Grange Hall. 

How does a thread about CL's developement of Poser 5 for the Mac become a thread about Ron Knight's body?? Anyway, everyone's missing the point: if you get a Mac, you can be COOL. The titanium coloring, the flat screen on a pedestal, the round mouse, the translucent coloring- it's just COOL! I'm not sure if you get to be COOL when you place the order for the Mac, when you open the box, or when you turn it on. However, I believe it comes with software that teaches you such key COOL phrases (for use in any debate) such as: "Buy a Mac" or "Your first mistake was buying a PC." or "I don't care if the Mac can't run [insert software title], it has a flat screen." --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Oh, what's the matter John? Are you jealous of my magnificent fatness? Or Legume's handy artwork?! Legume, that is certainly a great picture! Believe it or not, about 20 years ago, I actually worked out, and had a "hardbody." The girls used to whistle at me, and I looked all around to see who they were whistling at. I can honestly say "I'm twice the man I used to be." At that time I weighed 155 lbos (6 ft tall). Now I weigh about 300. Whoopie. **** Oh John, at 51, I don't really care if I'm "cool." My homemade computer is totally unique, and it works. I guess that is good enough for me. I might buy a new computer. If I do, I might be cool because I can say "Dude, I'm gettin' a Dell."

LOL I'm already cool... Dude, I got a Dell! Anyhow, I had a Mac years ago. Was nicer than a pc back then. I like GUI's over command line (who doesn't?!?) It was good back then. I wouldn't overlook them now if they ran the types of software I wanted. But they don't, and for work we had pc's anyhow. Mac got left behind... and in my opinion, for what I use computers for, it'll never catch up. But to each their own. :)

"How does a thread about CL's developement of Poser 5 for the Mac become a thread about Ron Knight's body??" I don't know, but at least it's interesting now...

id rather look at MR knights than read the tired MAC VS PC Crap yet again. great diffusion technique Ron :-)

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Actually one of the wierder things about the Apple "community" is that they love the machines, but have a rather ambivalent attitude towards Apple itself. later jb

Im glad to see this thread isnt locked.
Because Ive read it again and others like it, and its all left me with this mind boggling question, Ive come back to this thread in search for answers.

Someone put that Mac users often have to wait for longer periods of time for things than Windows users.

I am asking, what are all these great thingies for which we wait?

Theres Poser 5, OK, its a bit slow.
Then there was Mimic. Two whole years with no Mac version, and faithfully staying at 1.0. (?)
I dont hear any loud outcry for 3dsMax. Can anyone else? Perhaps those nearest the window?

Please could someone enlighten me as to what these people are talking about. Firewire? DVD-R? USB? Wireless networking?
Only 3D seems not to be taken serious by the graphic-arts industry or community.