This not just another Poser 5 post. I have read two of his books, the Poser 4 Handbook and 3D Comic Design. Both of them are a waste of paper and a waste of money. His Poser 4 Handbook is just a redress of the Poser 4 Manual, but worse. His examples are freakish and vague. Any information is buried and hard to find. I am not the only one with this opinion. At Amazon.com, his reviews are commonly in the toliet. This person does not know how to use Poser or how any of us use Poser. He seems to live in his own world. I can not believe that he was able to write another Poser book let along get a copy of Poser 5. He has writen books on several different 3d graphic programs. So far, all of those books have received mainly bad reviews from people. I can't believe that he is able to keep writing these horrible books. The only reason that he is able to write book is that people buy his books. That must stop. I call to everybody to NOT BUY any of his books including his upcoming Poser 5/Pro Pack book. This is the only way to get rid of him writing Poser books. If you need help with Poser, there is a lot of information here at Renderosity and other Poser forums. There are tutorials and forum posts that are 100 times better than any of Shamms' books. There is a Poser book that does get good reviews. It is called Poser 4 Pro Pack f/x & Design. It is writen by Richard H. Schrand, Steve Cooper, and Chad Smith. Steve Cooper and Chad Smith are involved with Poser itself. They know what they are doing, Shamms Mortier obvious does not know what he is doing. Again DO NOT BUY ANY BOOKS by Shamms Mortier. You will save money.

I couldn't agree with you more. His books are complete and utter crap. Personally, I extend those sentiments to the entire "Handbook" series. I mistakenly bought the Cinema 4D handbook, and we have the Raydream Handbook as well. Neither are as good as the products' manuals, and I sent that C4D book back from whence it came [amazon] faster that you can say 'return authorization number'. -Adam

actualy he seemed to be consumed with the idea of putting different body parts together to form strange creatures so perhaps his book would appeal to the guy a few threads back that wanted to mess around with wearwolf heads and mermaid tails. ;) otherwise I agree with you, a complete waste of time though I find it highly unlikely that CL would offer him a prerelease copy to write his manual so im sure it won't be available tilll months after the program comes out.

I sent a lengthy critique of the book to his editor with the aside that unless Charles River Media was a vanity imprint of a larger publisher with money to burn, they were gambling a substantial chunk of their future on another $50 fiasco like this one. To their credit, his editor replied and forwarded my comments to Mortier. When I learned another edition was on its way, I re-sent the message to the editor and this time not only did she reply but Mortier did as well. I'll do him the favor (this time) of not posting his email here. The technical manual market must be starving for people who can write in English if the technical standards are this low. And FWIW, while it's true that he pimped one or two Zygote CDs mercilessly in the book, Richard Schrand should be taken to the woodshed for making his Flash book's one section on integrating Poser require Vicky, Mike and both their clothing paks ($150 if you buy the CDs), just because he wanted characters that could morph into old people.

I got his P4 book for my birthday a year or so ago and what a complete waste of a gift. It is really really bad. The manual is actually a better reference tool. Too much of the stuff he talks about depends on you having another program to work in and then importing it back into Poser. The guy ain't right

Wow... I'm glad you guys said it. I have never, in my entire life been more miffed at a poor excuse of a book of any kind than one I bought from Amazon by Mr. Mortier. I considered placing a post of warning about his new Poser 5 Handbook (or whatever it is called) but didn't because I hadn't read it or know enough about Poser to be objective. (I'm gonna start learning soon though, hopefully with the help of some of you people when I'm stuck). I couldn't slam a guy in good concience about a book that I havent seen but I can say this: I bought "Modeling in Lightwave" by this guy and it was absolute trash. I learned nothing at all and had more success poking around mindlessly without any of his "help". I bought it because I was having trouble with the manuals and wanted another resource but there was zero constructive information at all in there. I left a one star rating on it at Amazon because it wouldn't let me enter anything less. Another reviewer said it best: The most informative page in the entire book is pg. 413. It is blank. It is the only book on Lightwave that virtually guarantees that you will be a worse artist after you read it." Stay away.

krimpr.

Who is this guy? I know he writes books, but who is he? Does he have any connection with Poser at all?

Shamms Mortier emerged years ago in the eighties on the Commodore Amiga computer scene. As I remember, he teaches at some college on the East Coast -- in Vermont I believe. He would write articles and reviews for the two Amiga magazines, "Amazing Computing" and "Amigaworld." His articles always demonstrated (to me at least) how much of a rank beginner he was at handling the software. I always got the impression that he was mostly in it for the free software that he could get as a reviewer. As the Amiga began to decline in popularity, fewer and fewer writers bothered to keep writing for the magazines. By the end of the Amiga's life, Shamms Mortier was pretty much the ONLY guy still writing for "Amazing." I have always thought for years that he's been pulling one of the biggest scams ever by passing himself off as a knowledgable writer. It's funny to see how, after all these years, people are finally on to him. And what's really scary is that he's also been passing himself off somewhere as a TEACHER, too!

actualy he seemed to be consumed with the idea of putting different body parts together to form strange creatures Geez, what kind of nutcase would want to do that? ;) >By the end of the Amiga's life, Shamms Mortier was pretty much the ONLY guy still writing for "Amazing." Actually, I wrote quite a few articles for Amazing too, specially towards the end there. But, yeah, Shamms marches to the beat of a different drummer, that's for sure. Regards- Lemurtek

"what kind of nutcase would want to do that? ;)" lol Lemurtek, I know. Especially those who would combine animal parts with humans!

Just do a search on his other books to see how bad his stuff is. The 3D Comic Design is particularly horrendous: http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1584500115.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg for the picture.

Nu-be, if you look at Ebay, you can pick up a used copy of Susan Kitchen's Bryce 4 book for around 14 bucks--I just got one and it's as all-around excellent as her older Bryce book, which I also have. Almost a thousand pages of really smart, funny, clear writing......!

Now, I wonder what we'd have to bribe her with to take on Poser 5 ;^)

Well, everyone has the right to publish a book, but sheesh, at least know what you're writing about, especially with a how-to book. He doesn't know how to adjust his camera focal setting so the figures don't look like mutants. He seems to use only the low res figures and the pre-dressed ones, like Casual Man. The facial expressions are absurd. He definately doesn't go for realism. His examples look cartoonish and certainly doesn't do Poser any justice. It doesn't show any examples of photorealism, which is what most of us using it are trying to achieve. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of buying both the Poser 3 and 4 versions of his book, as well as his Bryce books. Duh. I won't be buying Poser 5 Handbook, and not because anyone asked me not to buy it, but because I know what his past books are like. I'm sure others here could put together a book that is far above anything Mortier can do. Melanie

Thanks for the warning I just purchased Poser 4 because of the special price and relatively low upgrade price for 5 if I want to upgrade later. I was going to go to amazon to buy a book on poser (I have had good luck with my Carrara books) but I will steer clear from mortimers book. I will try to get the other book you mentioned is that good at learning poser 4 (especially for a beginner poser user)

Maybe we should all get together and write "The Renderosity Guide to Poser 5" when it comes out.

Remember, kids! Napalm is Nature's Toothpaste!

Man, you got to wonder how strange a dude can be if LEMURTEK is saying he "marches to the beat of a different drummer". (Just kidding, Lemurtek.) I've looked at Mortier's books in the bookstore on many occasions and always came to the conclusion that it was much less useful than the Poser manuals. Poser manuals are usually pretty good but the Community is always advancing so fast - it would be really nice to have a "Susan Kitchens" to help compile the knowledge of the Community Braintrust into a good book. With lots of sample files. And freebies.

Hmmm, maybe I should give it a go, I'm pretty good at explaining things to clueless people.... I still have about 7 unfinished tutorials for poser 4. (getting the tutorials onto a web page is really the tricky part) I could really use a job (and an advance copy of P5, lol), after my hubby injured his back. What do ya think, instead of boycotting Mort, give him some competition instead?

The handbook series...Did you read the Ray Dream Handbook??? It is without doubt the BIBLE on Raydream...probably one of the best software books produced...under Susan Kitchens Bryce books.... If you think I'm wrong, ask that question on the ex raydream list..now Carrara at Yahoo...I think you will get the same response...I'm talking the one written by John Sledd...

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

From what I understand, Susan Kitchens went WAAAAAAY beyond her desire for finishing the Bryce 4 book. Great book. Fat chance you'll get a Poser 5 book like that one out of her, tho. "Sham's" books are ALL turds. He was posting to this forum, long time ago... Got pissed-off and quit, when people didn't have any problem with telling him how bad his Poser 3 book was. Good riddance.

Thanks jjsemp and all for "Shams Bio", I've always wondered exactly who he was and where he came from, because the only place I've ever seen his name is on his books.

Actually...it was the bad reviews on Amazon that saved me from buying them. People there didn't mince any words, and I felt like it saved me a lotta cash AND disappointment. Beav

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=536217

There was a thread several aeons ago where the community would "contribute" to a book. It came up in a Anti-Shamms-Mortier-Book thread. (See the link) Ironically, I point to ANOTHER thread in the above link. This idea has been around!

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

With all the talent here at Renderosity, I'm surprised some of the people here haven't got together with Renderosity to write a Poser 5 book. I think a lot of members here certainly have the credentials and it would probably sell pretty well.

the funny thing is its books by "educated" people like this mortier fellow that give poser sucha bad reputation amoung those "not in the know" If you were an accomplished artist and were thinking about getting poser as an aid, and looked at one of this guys books, would you want to get it? Its the same thing withmost magazines. Read tutorials from most major 3d or software magazines on poser (renderosity excluded , of course) and you can tell they are all written by people who dont know anything.

If you want a good book for poser4 apart from the manual, buy the Poser4 propack F/X & design book by Richard Schrand, I can't say a bad word about this book, it's well written, goes into detail on pretty much everything, has a gret colour section in the middle, & he also explains how at least one of the pictures in that section was made so you can DIY, it's worth every penny of the 30 I paid for it. Remember the name Richard Schrand ;) Rob

Whoa............ "WILLDIAL" I know that book isn't my taste too........ But please be concern that you are offending a legitimate bussiness .......... even when you have a personal bad mood against it. "Counter-Advertisement"....... (heck what is it anyway ?) IS vey unlawful. THOUGH,........ I DO HAVE A SUGGESTION. --- > How bout just a "REVIEW" of his products ? That'll get you no harm.

Oh yeah..... Play it cool, play it safe

but surely helping people to buy a decent book is a good thing, advising people to avoid something that is less than professional quality is also a good thing. Rob

Yeah .... advise is good....... Crossing the line is baaaad......... Crossing the law is worse. though I 'm not much for the poser hand book too, make sure that no one is offended, (even the R Shame Mortier). That's why ......... REVIEW is safer than counter advertising

I bought the Mortier book then I bought the Schrand book, I only have the Schrand book now the other was returned for a refund. I wouldn't want to do a review of the book simply because I would probably get myself into all sorts of legal trouble with what I have to say about it, the best I can do though is sum up my impressions of Mr Mortier's book in one word, Amateurish. Rob

Exactly what line was crossed? At what point does some law say that this is not just a personal opinion of somebody trying to help others and does it become counter advertising? (however that might be defined in the US) BTW if the book is really as bad as it seems I wouldn't worry about mr Mortier being offended. You shouldn't offend people without reason, but here the reasons seems clear enough.

its not really counter advertising becuase your not targeting the publisher, your expressing your opinion of an individual author. Suggesting the boycott of an author isnt really that different than a peaceful public demonstration of a bunch of peta people gathering in front of a hot dog factory shouting boycot hotdogs, save the pigs. A few of the posts here can be considered as personal attacks, and should probably be a little more discreet about expressing their opinion, but i havent seen any laws broken yet.

Looking at Amazon, I see that Mr Mortiers books average about 1.5 stars in rating. Why 1.5? The answer is that they are getting a consistent five star rating from the signature "Midwest Book Review". Checking up on this user, I see that they have reviewed a total of 9634 books on Amazon, given them all five stars... So much for their credibility.

There is no such thing as counter advertising in the US. No line has been crossed. If Mr. Shamm's book is crap than it's crap, and we have the RIGHT to say so. Not only that, but we can even advise people to boycott products for any reason we want to (unfair labor practices, unethical behavior, heck we can even say the author is evil and wants to promote human genetic mutations if we wish) The closest crime to counter advertising is Slander or Libel, but that involves lying about a product, and I don't think that anyone has lied.

ib be willing to bet that midwest book review is a cover or subsidiary of some advertising agency or other.

Amateurish is exactly what it is. His illustrations and examples are all the most basic defaults in Poser. He shows no talent in them. I really hate to criticize anyone, but if he really knew his way around Poser, his examples would have been much more polished. As it is, it looks like a 7 year old child did the images. He shows no imagination or creativity in them. Every one of the illustrations he put into the book probably took him two minutes to create. There was no time or effort put into them. Unfortunately, I bought two of them and I think I ended up giving one of them away. The other one is collecting dust somewhere. What I'm curious about is where he even discovered Poser and why he thought he was good enough at it to write books about it. Any of us here could do that. How did he convince a publisher that his was worth publishing? I don't think it's necessary to boycott the books, just inform new Poser users that they are not the best and that they would be better off saving their money and learning from other users who really know what they're doing. Melanie

...oops, by "they are ot the best" I didn't mean the new Poser users, I meant Mortier's books. Must clarify that. LOL Melanie

How did he convince the publisher? probably by having a degree in something or other & being a teacher. The publisher probably had no clue about poser either and only went on the guy's creditentials not on the book's content. Umm, advising people not to buy the book IS in essence a boycott.

While not the best 3rd Party book I've ever read, I did glean some information from Shamms book that wasn't covered in the manual. He also presents tutorials by other Poser artists. While I personally don't like Shams style, his stuff isn't all bad. I think he used low res figures in a lot of his stuff because they are easier to animate. I think a boycott is too severe, some people will actually like the book I'm sure. If all the nay sayers don't buy the publisher will probably eventually have another author write the next book in the series. I personally find all these graphics books to be over priced, that is why I wait until I can find a used copy at a lower price. I think I paid $15.00 for the Poser 4.0 Handbook and that was about all it was worth.

Counter-Advertising!?! I have never heard of such a thing. I live in the US and I feel that my statements are protected by The Freedom of Speech Right. I am not calling for anything illegal or dangeruous. I am just calling for a peaceful boycott of R. Shamms Mortier's books. This just my opinion. I feel that they are so low quality that a poor review will not do the job. We need something stronger and a boycott seems the next logical step, since the publisher does not listen to us. They will listen to poor sales. Tomsde understood the action I am trying to get. I just want a different person to write Poser books. The idea of Shamms writing more poser books is nausiating.

Not to long ago at the Poser newsgroup, people complained that they'd received e-mails from Mr. Mortier asking if they had any links to good Poser tutorials online. Amazing! I have no idea if he was planning on plagarizing, but the unsolicited solicitation was stinky, we all agreed. Do you own dang homework, Mort! There are so many excellent tutorials online ... they're far more valuable than Shamms' (gotta love that name) books. BTW the reviews at Amazon are great entertainment. I've never seen ANY author in any field so universally reviled, except that creep who wrote "Mein Kampf." Who needs bad Poser books when we have such an outstanding mutual support system right here?

Dave-so... now that I look at it, I did get some use from the Ray Dream Handbook. Yeah, it's a gem amongst the turds :-) Of course, this one was not a Shamms book--no gems whatsoever from him. -Adam

Wow, the poor bloke! I'm pretty sure I saw a post by Mr. Mortier somewhere on 'Rosity.... I have his P4 book. It is pretty obvious that it is just not aimed at users who are or seek to be on the same level as those at Renderosity. The book is not horribly bad in itself. The really disappointing thing is that his book is one of only two available on P4. I really do think that the 'Rosity "Power Users" should compile their own book on P4 or P5 or whatever.

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

I saw an RShamms post in "California Dreaming", I assumed that was him. I hope he reads this thread and takes an axe to his word processor, to save future generations of 3D artists from finding out the hard way just how bad his books really are. -Adam

Renderosity could pull together a few folks and probably have one of the best Poser books ever put out...but now that P5 is on the horizon, is there any sense in a P4 book ??? To be fair to all users,, however, I think a combo book would be appropriate... there will be many people that do not upgrade to P5 for awhile, plus there are many people still using P3 even...so the book could be divided up into sections for each version, plus topics that apply to all versions could be in another section. Sell it right here, plus release to all the big book sellers...of course Renderosity members would get a bit of a discount :)

Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together.
All things connect......Chief Seattle, 1854

It's an excellent book. Without it, the broken leg on my computer table would cause my entire setup to wobble uncontrollably. It's exactly the right height, and the cover slides easily over the carpet.

ROFL, you had me for a minute Dendras. Someone with an reqognizable name & quaility artwork defending the book could've canged my mind ...... Fortunatly my computer desk is stable enough.

Please note that the book is ADJUSTABLE as well! If you have a less wobbly table than Dendras, you can flip to e.g. chapter three and put the broken leg on top of that page! Extremely versatile book, he has really found his niche among writers and deserves all the credit he can get for that.

[[ "Sham's" books are ALL turds.]] NOW, NOW, NOW, I'm ashamed of you! He simply does not deserve that kind of FLATTERY! His books have literally light-years to rise before they can qualify as the LOWEST kind of SHIT! His Bryce obscenity is one of only two books I have bought in my life which I then dumped directly in the GARBAGE where they so rightfully belonged.

His Bryce obscenity is one of only two books I have bought in my life which I then dumped directly in the GARBAGE where they so rightfully belonged. Umm. What was the second book?

===========================sigline======================================================

Cage can be an opinionated jerk who posts without thinking.  He apologizes for this.  He's honestly not trying to be a turkeyhead.

Cage had some freebies, compatible with Poser 11 and below.  His Python scripts were saved at archive.org, along with the rest of the Morphography site, where they were hosted.

"Umm, advising people not to buy the book IS in essence a boycott." Shadowcat, I didn't say we should advise people not to buy, what I said was to let newbies know that it's not a very good book. That way they can make their own decision whether or not to buy it. In the dictionary I have, Boycotting is defined as refusing to do something, such as buying the book or whatever. It doesn't say anything about advising people not to do something. It's up to each individual to decide for him or herself whether or not to buy it or just ignore it. That was all I meant. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Melanie

I hate to admit it but I got duped TWICE... got both Poser 3 and Bryce 3 by shamms. (ordered at the same time) When I thumbed through Poser 3 .. I was like "WTF, this guy isn't teaching anything, just showing how much you can distort a Poser figure .. something I can do on my own ... for free" and the Bryce 3 book wasn't any better. To equate his ability in writing/graphics creation .... think Pauly Shore doing Shakespeare and trying to be serious ... its just completely out there. bob

Just to clarify a little: Counter-advertising is more commonly known as a 'mud-slinging' campaign. Is is considered against advertising protocols (and may indeed be illegal under restriction or hampering of fair trade practices). For example, it would be bad form (and as I said, possibly illegal), for Coca-Cola to pursue an advertising campaign saying: "How can you drink Pepsi? It tastes like twice filtered horse-whiz. Drink Coke instead!". This is why they use 'taste-test' campaigns for a great deal of advertising. Then it's not THEM saying it, it's the PEOPLE...and the PEOPLE have a right to be heard. (And if you believe that, I should be in advertising). In any case, we're not on a smear campaign against this author to promote another book for our own benefit...at least not our financial benefit. We just don't want to see a bad author getting more money for doing an inferior job. Just my two pixels worth, CT

A few years ago, there was an ad campaign by Burger King that was more or less "mud slinging" McDonalds. For a long time, I refused to eat at Burger King because of their snotty remarks on the commercials. I now eat in both places (when I'm not dieting :) I don't know that mud slinging is illegal, but I sure know that it's unethical and unfair. Maybe some of the wording here in this thread has been a bit harsh against Mortier, but everyone has his or her right to an opinion, too. The fact is, his books are inferior. There's no reason why we shouldn't warn people that they could spend their money better elsewhere. I don't consider that either a boycott or mud slinging. I consider it good advice for people about to put out a good deal of money on something they will come to discover was a bad decision. You see bad book reviews in the newspaper and on TV and at Amazon.com all the time, some of them even by big-time critics, slamming various books for their poor quality. It's the same way that you see bad movie reviews that advise you not to go see a certain film because it's a piece of junk and only gets one star or whatever and it's a wast of your time. This is no different. Melanie

From Websters: Main Entry: [sham] Function: adjective Date: 1681 1 : not genuine : FALSE, FEIGNED 2 : having such poor quality as to seem false Anyone else find this extremely ironic? ;-) ScottA

charles river site?

musicat - where did you see that? I looked on the site and didn't see that piece of good news.

only thing i saw is that you cant return or order the bryce 3d book anymore because they are publishing his bryce 5 book now. Thats hardly good news.

Just have to put in my 2 12 cents here. Shamm's Mortiers Poser book is deeply flawed, I was willing to give him the benifit of the doubt since there simply was no other Poser book out at the time. I saw he had a Bryce 5 book, I never even picked it up off the shelf, why oh why does this man continue to be published? BTW I disagreee about the Cinema 4D handbook, I liked it and so did many others. Susan Kitchens is incredible and everyone should have her Bryce book, too cool. It is deeply disturbing that the man who gave the world the sharks head on a skeletan and the dog's head totem pole, no I'm not kidding, would be allowed to put his crayon to paper again, I hope at least this time he does not give advice on how to work with animals not in the program, how to used orphaned 3rd party software or, for the love of God, to make someones neck really really long, yeeesh!

In defence of the Charles River Media Graphics series, I do have one of their series (Lightwave 6.5/7.0 project handbook) that I actually have gotten alot out of and has really done a good job of introducing me to the program. However, it is by Patrick Beck, not Mr. Mortier. In the back of the book is an offer to join a graphics resource club which includes 39 online pdf tutorials anually for LW, Poser, Bryce, Carrara, Illustrator, plus one free book a year and was considering it until I read that it was affiliated with Mr. Mortier. He apparantly does a monthly newsletter and I was fearful that the tutorials also may have been done by him so I am steering clear. (already was burned by one of his awful "works".) So as Charles River Media may be making money from uninformed victims purchasing Mortiers books, it is also costing them money through "guilt by association".

Krimpr Patrick Beck's Lightwave book IS quite good- John Shredd's old Ray dream book was pretty good- I spoke with him awhile back-he was in process on writing a Carrara book-but got caught up in the "Metamess". I got Shamms "Modelling in Lightwave"-since as far as modeling goes I am a newbie- unfortunately-I am a pro compared to Smort-the book actually suggests Modeling in Amapi-THEN importing for rendering! I unfortunately did not open it until it was too late for a return. Rating? 0.5 Stars

Eric... If I knew that I could give .5 stars I would have; I unwittingly overrated him at 1 star. I am also a LW Newbie (v. 6.5) but if you would like to buy books that ARE good, Dan Ablan's "Inside Lightwave" would be my #1, followed closely by "Lightwave Applied" 6.5/7.0 By Dave Jerrard, Joe Tracy and Jennifer Hachigan. I haven't gotten through them all yet, (poor self discipline) but you can't go wrong with them. "Inside Lightwave" gets into subpatch modeling and such, as well as extensive texturing, etc. I like Patrick's book because it gives you a bit of a "tour" of the different functions, which is fun and gives you ideas, I agree with you.

Using Amapi does have it's virtues; just check out some of Brycetech's modeling. It seems to me that Amapi is the silent, gifted orphan somehow. If buying Shamm's book has any redeeming element, it is that it includes an older version of Amapi on the CD. (4.15 or something). I upgraded to V. 6 because it is kinda neat. In LW you can't select an edge of an object and radius it, for example, so I often export .obj into Amapi, radius, and then reimport into LW. I find they interface really goofy, but it certainly is surprising how well it works. Brycetech has a tutorial CD on Renderosity for $10.00 or $12.00 and I'm going to pick it up soon. If only the interface didn't bug me so much....

krimpr I have those books and largely rate them in the same order-I am also using 6.5b with LW. I love the program! I just finished a two day class in San Fran taught by Larry Shulz "Splinegod"-whose name you likely recognize from other Lightwave forums. He focused on modeling techniques and using skelegons and bones-(since thats what we asked for) very cool and informative. I recommend it "The Lightwave World Tour"if it comes anywhere near you. It may be that you could achieve the same result with LWave-by taking a diffferent approach-of course the trick is to find that approach! He showed us two different ways to model a character-with splines and from a sphere primitive. He is currently responsible for creating characters-and animating for an English animated sci-fi show called Max Steele? Not sure if I have the name right. No actually-he is done with Msteele-it is a different name for the British show. Now that I have gained some familiarity with the process of character rigging- it will make animating PoserCharacters-or anything else- easy directly within Lwave. In fact I cant decide whether I want to tonight-model or use skelegons! Actually, I did not find any documentation with the Amapi 4 I got from a British mag-and grew frustrated with the interface- I had an email discussion with Brycetech after buying some of his animal characters- pretty cool actually! Thanks for the tip on the CD. Eric

Eric it's called Max Steel over here too & it's a great show, I sit & watch it with my kids when it comes on. Rob

Hey C1rcle, Cool. Then it is the show and he is still involved. He made the Max Steel character-and among others a giant green hulkish looking guy that hangs out with Max. It was interesting to see the characters and how he made them Eric

that's one of the villains I think, he has a green glowing arm, haven't seen it for a few weeks, they changed all the programming on tv cause of the school holidays, but I'd love to know how he made those characters :) Rob