Entropic: I posted this in a new thread because it would have been buried if I put it in yours. I didn't think that would give the other side an even shake. I normally don't argue but this excuse-making is getting ridiculous. Blaming the users for bugs? You counted all the bug reports and credit 85% of them to be the fault of the user? I think you may have been focusing on the complaints about renders, and not the overall program. I'm no Poser expert, but I am quite experienced with hardware and software and I know a faulty program when I see it and this is it. For over a year now, we (yes, me too) were shouting, "Give them time, don't rush them! We don't want another P4 fiasco." And they promised us they were taking their good ol' time making it right. So now it's out with more bugs than the back alley of a New York City greasy spoon, and it's the user's fault?! BS, period. I've even read in earlier threads that we should expect bugs in software this new and this complex. More BS. (See the paragraph above where it mentions "taking the time to make it right.") And it's not new, either; it's Poser 4 with a slightly reworked interface and some new features added on. Some of the P4 bugs are still there fer cryin' out loud. And the complexity excuse? So there's no other software that's complex? I've never had Max 4 lock up on me, not once. Neither Carrara 1.1 or Photoshop 7. Corel Draw 10 either. Bryce 4, Vue 4, oops... Vue 4 did lock on me 'til I figured out to disable open gl. I didn't come in here the day I got P5 to bash CL. I was very patient and honestly looked for answers to these problems. I'm still looking and testing...something that should have been done already. Now I kind of resent being blamed for sloppy programming and slip-shod testing. Yesterday I was going to start a thread titled, "Who Beta'd this thing? Moe, Larry, & Curly?" But I didn't. I thought better of it. And now the users are being blamed for the bugs. It's amazing! I think most of us have the same desire: to see Poser become the best it can be. But in order to do that, we have to be honest. Making excuses and blaming users isn't going to help at all.