Attached Link: http://www.poserpros.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3922&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=340

This is a thread at PoserPros. The following is a quote from Dan Farr on page 18: "DAZ does have another issue with the Poser 5 EULA that as far as we know may not apply to others to the same degree. This is the non-compete aspect of the agreement. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, products such as Mimic or Victoria 3 could be legally argued to be in competition with Poser 5. This concerns us. Also at this time, so as not to appear ulterior in having expressed our genuine concern for the above issues, and so as not to invalidate related issues raised by others, we feel that we need to be publicly forthcoming on another item. Last January, at a point in time when we had a very uncertain view of the future of Poser and our involvement in its development we decided to move in a different direction. A direction that we feel will bring us closer to this great community and help it to grow. We are currently developing a rendering/animation tool. I will not go into the specifics of this application at this time but just say that in some ways it will be viewed as a competitive application to Poser."

Get it? "We are currently developing a rendering/animation tool." Now it all makes a lot more sense, eh?

Heh heh. Too bad he didn't post that before everyone pre-ordered P5, ne? ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

I wonder if Daz feels shunned because CuriousLabs wanted to charge 30k per figure for the face room compatibility, in light of the fact that Daz was basically the major fuel behind Poser 4 with Mike and Vicky. This is just a thought, and in no way what actually happened, I have no idea. I'm not in the loop here. However, I will look forward to what Daz has coming though. Competition is a good thing in markets. Ben

Good thing CL protected their file formats huh?

This non-competition claus has me confused. I thought "cornering a market" was illegal in the United States. If competition is forbiden by an EULA, then wouldn't that make that section of the EULA invalid? And if DAZ creates a program that is competitive with Poser, yet has models that work with it as well... what kind of can-0-wyrms does that open up?!? I wish I knew a copyright lawyer. This nonsense is making my head hurt.

Well lets hope their copy protection isn't as restrictive as CL. Thanks for the good news x2000.

____________________________________________________

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination".

Albert Einstein

There was a falling out between DAZ and CL well before the 30K per figure thing. Long time back, I posted here asking whether it was "safe" to buy Vicky and Mike, or whether I would get screwed because they'd be included with Poser 5 if there ever was a Poser 5. Somebody from DAZ replied on that thread saying, "DAZ will not be creating the figures for Poser 5. Maybe you should ask Curious Labs who is." It was subtle, but it was clear that DAZ was not happy with CL. Other posts around here have made that point more evident. I'm not sure I've seen any indication that CL feels the same, other than DAZ being completely out of the loop rather than the partners they should have been in the creation of P5. (We'd have had a better program!) DAZ and CL staff members may deny this left and right if they choose, but it's too late to cover it up, and personally I'd rather them just tell us WHY these 2 companies whose survival appears to depend on one another have split. There's clearly no love lost between them. Phoenix (Who has been wondering about this topic for ages)

...I wonder if Daz feels shunned because CuriousLabs wanted to charge 30k per figure for the face room compatibility, in light of the fact that Daz was basically the major fuel behind Poser 4 with Mike and Vicky. I am inclined to accept Dan's statement at face value. In a world without Poser DAZ does not have a business. Given that they were concerned about Poser's continued existence, not to mention their position in such an existence, they had to make sure there was an alternative if they wished to survive. I guess you could say that this is the ultimate in "software backup"...grin... It is also a good business tactic for a forward thinking company. I'll definitely be entertaining thought of such a program provided it has a copy protection system with which I can coexist. - Jack

Lets me nice and have all programs load the same file formats. Like Adobe, Corel and Macromedia. Maybe something can be worked out. Can't we just all get along?

...Can't we just all get along? After reviewing a couple of thousand years of human history I'd have to say the answer is "no". Either that or "42". - Jack

"Good thing CL protected their file formats huh" Did they, Jeff? shrug Poser file formats are a text based macro system [looking at it from someone who designed a lot of macros once] that issues internal program commands just as a QuattroPro or Word macro issues program commands. They happen to be named "cr2, pp2, pz2, pz3, cm2" etc, but that's all they are - a set of macro strings excuting command functions. There's not much difference in syntax between a Quattro macro and an Excel macro, or a Lotus macro. They do similar things, so the syntax is similar, the command function is similar, and the names are often identical because they're describing identical system functions even though it's in three seperate and different applications. An @string function is an @string function no matter where... Any app that uses a text based macro file system to describe spatial coordinates, twist, bend, scale parameters, delta information, and assign program functions for show/hide body parts, morph values, and other character parameters is going to end up looking a lot like a cr2 no mater what the file extension is. Even if it uses slightly different command parameters... the way a Excel and a Quattro macro aren't precisely identical to the point where one works in the other program. Still.... there's only so many things you can cal a shoulder, a collarbone or a shin, and only so many ways to describe a delta parameter set within the accepted range of 3D applications.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

I figured that out along time ago when they used people to make their post. The EULA hurts no one but them and in a few words only. Want to guess where? The new EULA protects the rest of the people here merchants included as well as other places. I told a few people this privately! Ron

Well I am beginning to wonder if the whole thing is not a huge ball of smoke hiding something else again underneath it.
The 30k issue for one. If you are selling a product like Victoria, say 20,000 legal units (remember there are 100,000+ users here alone) that comes to around $1,000,000 and the 20,000 sales is probably very conservative. Add all the extras that Daz create, add their brokerage fees on Victoria related items and the figures will really mount up. Then there is mike, the kids etc. and of couse upgrades.
In that context 30k is small beer considering the work of calibrating that is supposedly involved. What would the enhanced useability be worth it in terms of further sales or an upgrade costing $10? Well if they only sold 3,000 Face-Room-compartable upgrades to the Victoria owning members they would cover their costs and probaly push many more Victoria sales as a result of her full face room/P5 comapatability.

Now it just so happens I am trying at this moment to make a hi-res version of Victoria (120,000 polys+) using a variety of subdivisional tools and programs. However, there is a major problem. Victoria has over 40 Polygons with more than 4 sides. all the subdivisional systems I am using cannot handle these, the result is holes in the mesh. Now I wonder if trying to calibrate Victoria's head to work in the face room was a non-runner in the first place because of these 4-sided+ polygons.

Here are the stats for her head
The Victoria head contains 14 4-sided+ polygons.
4x5 sided on the cheeks and beside the nose,
2x10 sided at the back of the teeth,
2x16 sided at the internal terminus of the nostrils,
4x18 sided at the back of the toung and inner mouth,
2x34 sided at the back of the eye sockets.

For the record I admire both Daz and CL and the work that they do and I am saddened by this row but the issues go to the heart of the Poser community so I feel I must say something about it.

BTW the above is just speculation on the whole smouldering bonfire!

Regards
STORM

Hmm, has anyone noticed how DAZ has purchased (Mimic) or has selling agreements (Vue, Deep Paint...yadda,yadda, yadda) with major software companies that utilize or enhance poser models. Sounds like there could be a major animation software player...Or is DAZ using these forums as a ploy/tactic to influence CL (Ahh, then the soap opera music chimes in as I arch one eyebrow).

Hmm. This could get truly interesting. Competition generally makes better business (and more business) for everybody. In fact, the kvetching here in the last few days could yield a pretty good specification list for a competing application -- if DAZ is smart enough to read it with that in mind.

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"Or is DAZ using these forums as a ploy/tactic to influence CL " Why not? CL uses them to further it's own commercial ends. ;] And may be doing so more extensively in the future.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

I thought it was odd that Daz isn't selling Poser 5. But in regards to the Poser figures to date, aren't all the figures in Poser 4 Daz figures and what about Poser 5, did CL come up with their own or did Daz design them. They always say competition is good, perhaps an alternate human modeling program would be a great thing.

Oh Sh*t, this could end up making the DSI battle over ownership and control of this place look like chickenfeed! ;0) Hi Bear! Regards STORM

I have not bought the P5 upgrade yet. But I will buy it, after I spend some time surveying the lay of the land here in the forums.

And if DAZ comes out with its own app, then I'll probably buy that program, too.

It's too bad that CL felt the need to cook up this Microsoft XP-style of copy protection. I, for one, could do without it.

CL should take a lesson from the world of CADD applications. At one time, AutoCAD and Intergraph were about equal in the marketplace. Now, AutoCAD dominates almost everywhere. Why?

Because AutoDesk allowed people to use the AutoCAD software in ways that Intergraph would not permit. Intergraph had a policy of attempting to contractually tie clients up; Intergraph slapped all sorts of restrictions on the use of its software.

AutoDesk permitted much greater freedom.

Attempts at exclusivity only lead to unhappy clients. And, when somebody else comes along with an equal or better mouse trap, well..............

Something To Do At 3:00AM 

Hi there, When people ask if Michael and Vicki are included in P5 I think it only fair to answer them suggesting they ask Cl questions we don't have answers to. I don't think I phrased that response quite that way. :) As a long-time member I always posted tip, tricks and such. I hope noone thought that I was trying to use tactics. Daz is busy but I think it is important to help people where they are having trouble or in doubt. If people are feeling this way I will stop since, for the most part, I am the only Daz employee that posts here. Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton I think your posts here are always welcomed by the community and I for one hope you do not stop. Regards STORM

DAZ making its own poser-like program is like a dream come true...if it's true. Pheonix: Long ago I suspected the same falling out you did, so I finally IM'd Anton and asked him about it. I don't remember his exact words but I know he didn't seem surprised at the question. And he didn't deny a falling out had occured. But he did say things were "okay" between DAZ and CL. (Or something along those lines.) In the Poser 5 manual, DAZ is listed on the Credits page as being a Corporate Contributor. It says, "The following companies provided technology used in Poser 5." It then names Runtime DNA, DAZ and Pixels Digital, Inc.

I've posted about this in prior similar threads, so, I'll just briefly summarize it here. The tech behind the Face Room comes from a company called Singular Inversions. That company's approach to facial models and morphs is considerably different from what CL and DAZ have done in the past. Bringing in SI undoubtedly carried a cost to CL which is passed on to the consumer. Doing the work necessary to adapt a DAZ figure to the SI tech is apparently being passed onto DAZ. Dan Farr's post at PoserPros sheds further light on the friction over that cost, and on the wording of the P5 EULA. While this apparent turn of events may cause a degree of turmoil in the community, it also ought to be a relief to the third-party creators of content here and at other forums, as it is becoming increasingly clear that the more controversial aspects of the new EULA are not aimed at them.

I do not know how this figures in, but the face room is module of software that was not designed by CL. That is why only P5 figures work. This is based on the discuss Joe Grover had at the Dragon*Con workshops. Runtime DNA and other Renderosity site merchants made content. Remember CL is an EGISYS company...such subsidiary situations can determine the choices such a dynamically growing company such as CL are able to take...both due the economics and due to business support/advice pathways.

As the thread grows faster than I can write, I would add that as far as I'm concerned, Anton has been an enormous asset to the community generally, and R'osity in particular, both before and after joining DAZ. I would hate it if he felt he should lay out to avoid controversy. It's a fact of life in the tech world that companies often have relationships as complex as nations: sometimes allies, sometimes competitors. Ask anyone who develops apps for MSFT. Moreover, if folks from DAZ (and Dan Farr and others have posted here in the past) or CL involve themselves more in these forums, I will not immediately assume that the result will be poisonous. Crass attempts at manipulation would be seen as just that by the folks here, who in my experience are probably a bit more paranoid about that sort of thing than they need be. OTOH, if CL and DAZ folk involve themselves more in the community in ways that benefit the members and thereby build good will in their respective companies, more power to them.

Hiya STORM. ;] Howya doing? Long time, bud. ;] Anton! Don't you freaking DARE stop dropping in and posting tips, tricks and other stuff, y'hear? If nothing else, at least in Poser Technical forums etc. I don't want to have to drive up to Daz and ask why you stopped posting. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Anton, The DAZ employee I was refering to was not you. :) This was long before your job at DAZ. She did phrase it exactly that way, "Why don't you ask CL who is doing the models," and it was clear that DAZ had washed its hands of CL or vice versa. Please never stop posting here. Your posts are always helpful. I hope I haven't made you feel accused. Phoenix

Daz will never do that. I have done something that will not let them. This will be a private matter between me and them. I can assure you of one thing. They will meet me in person. Actually many of them have. Now they will see my true talents. I hate when people steal from others! Ron

Oh I see...ok, seems like I am always dodging darts anyway. hehe. Just checking. I brokered for a long time so thins might help someone. Technically there is absolutely no difference bewteen Daz ans anyone else that makes content. You make clothes, we make clothes. We make figures, you make figures. We sell them, you sell them. It is true that we are a larger company with employees but not any different than a broker that makes animals in his livingroom or office. Even if the P5 EULA was written specifically for Daz, what would apply to us applies to all since there is no distinction. I am new at Daz, but brokered for several years. In my personal opinion the MilDragon represents the abolute limit to the complexity a Poser figure can achieve. We just want something new so we can expand out products without limits. :) If Daz didn't like Poser I doubt the owners would have started a company whose only purpose is to make figures for it. Everyone needs to survive. Anyone remmeber what the P2 figures where like. Load them sometime. :) Anton Ironbear, you would have a long way to Drive(mabey). I work from Boston. :) Storm, while they are our most successful iems you have a few too many zeroes up there. Np but 30K per figure is alot for anyone. Ronmolina, what did we do to you specifically for talk like that? Sounds like "Poser Celebrity Deathmatch" or something. You ok?

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Of course you're welcome here! I know how difficult it must be for you sometimes because you work for Daz now - trying to balance being a Daz employee and being a individual poster - but please don't let it get to you. You're a great resource for Poser in general. You're not the only Daz person who posts, just one of the more prolific. Honestly, I think that one or two Daz people need to put a bit more thought into their posts before hitting the submit button. (No, that isn't referring to you.) There's been some real firestorms from poorly worded posts. (And a few brouhahas from well phrased posts because some people always have to pick a fight, but that's a whole different story.) Have a great night. And now back to our latest P-Files episode.

Anton you have Stolen others ideas and meshes to long and now your a Daz person? I will no longer support you and show people what I mean. Ron

Ron, Huh? Whoa, man, you sound like like you've got a secret "laser" pointed at Vicky's head. :) What the heck you talkin' 'bout? Phoenix

Yeah... actually, I used to do renn faires in Pennsylvania, and visited Boston a couple of times while doing that. I know precisely how long a drive that is from Dallas, Texas to Boston. Almost as long as the drive from Dallas across Texas. ;] Hrmmm... might almost be worth it. My lady and I enjoyed touring Boston...

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

No Anton I dont! It is what Daz has said publicly. That set me off. Your work is excellent! Hey iron can I get a ride? LOL Ron

Could it be religion? Or could it be money, money, money. I believe they could be both. Realizing where DAZ3d is located. Could it be DAZ3d trying to push what is religiously correct on to us as users. And maybe CL realizes, that people want realism in their characters. Maybe CL is trying to per tech themselves from DAZ3d. And there religious views. I believe you'll see someone new creating characters for CL in the future. I do not really understand what is going on, however this is my opinion. I believe this is the problem that is not been stated.

Ronmolina, Oh my that doesn't sound good at all. Why don't you just call me 1-617-522-3977. You sound upset and it sounds personal. You can yell if you want to. I don't mind. Please, this online stuff is fun but not that real. I don't think I have even ever spoken to you. Call me. "not the bulleye, not the bullseye" :) Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

fdw, As an openly gay man hired as Daz employee it seems unlikely that religion is involved. Come'on. When I met everyone there I can assure you I was not handed a bible(not that that wouldn't have been a nice gift). They are everydat people just like us. ok mabey more sane but just like us. :) Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Hot damn, this is gonna get REAL INTERESTING. Bookmark.

Anton: Just to clarify my earlier point, I don't know that some of the language in the P5 EULA was directed at DAZ, but it is starting to look that way. Reading the EULA, I was struck by the seeming gap between the broadly written anti-compete language (Section H of the Content Distribution secion, if I recall) and the almost equally broad list of permitted commercial uses for P5's content Section J of the Content Distribution secion, if I recall). Concern about a direct competitor to P5 would be one explanation for that gap. And while the EULA is equally applicable to everyone, I think it must be conceded that a company like DAZ is more capable of producing a competing product than someone who merely brokers a prop or a character, or even a helper app in the MP. Having said that, I am currently completely agnostic about the consequences if DAZ develops a competing product. Personally, I have had very good experiences with both companies, and would not like to see either diminished by acrimonious competition. But as I wrote earlier, a competitive relationship need not be acrimonious, and can also be complimentary at times. Should DAZ move into a more competitve relationship, my hope is that everyone involved, both at the companies and in the community, will behave like grown-ups and remember that it's not personal, it's business;-)

Texas - a country unto itself ;). It's some 800 miles across and some 800 miles tall... I grew up in Va. and if I drove 800 miles south I'd cross NC, SC and end up somewhere in Georgia ;). (yeah, ok, so I had nothing useful to add to the topic, but I now have a bookmark, so nyaaah! ;).

Cinema4D Plugins (Home of Riptide, Riptide Pro, Undertow, Morph Mill, KyamaSlide and I/Ogre plugins) Poser products Freelance Modelling, Poser Rigging, UV-mapping work for hire.

Yeah.. it's amost as long a drive from Dallas to Brownsville in hours as it is form Big D to DC. I've made both in one day, but it's wearying....

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

.

Hi Anton I have no problem with you Anton. However at one time I asked a question, about female geometry, why don't they show the female private parts. They show the man's private parts. I received a very lame answer. Basically I wasted my money, and time calling, for a ridiculous answer. Realizing later that the company, is owned by LDS members. Maybe that as changed. I do not know. However I believe in equal rights, if you do one you should do for the other. I guess that is my biggest problem with DAZ3d.

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It should be noted that court precedence has ruled that if PART of a EULA is declared unenforceable the ENTIRE EULA can be ruled unenforceable until such time as a legally enforceable EULA is in place. I posted this in another thread many, many eons ago when the Daz EULA was being debated. I have had an attorney who specializes in copyright, patent and trademark law on retainer for nearly 20 years. I have never seen anyone, let alone an attorney, laugh so hard as when I have shown him some of the EULAs, Licensing Agreements and Readmes floating around here. Simply, copyright law is there to PROTECT the creator... not to corner or monopolize a market. Those who believe and behave otherwise stand ready to learn a very costly lesson. Declaratory judgements can be very, very expensive. Just a whimsical thought while I daydrream back to how smoothly that registration went. Anyone up for some Chez-Its? I've got those little goldfish, too. Help yourself. casamerica

fdw The company is not owned by LDS members. It is owned by a guy named Cris and a guy named Dan. Come'on...enough. I worked for a company in Boston...that doesn't mean it was owned by the catholic church. :) Please don't assume that a lack of a vagina means discrimination or religous fanaticism. :) My grandfather was a baptist minister. They get alot of flack too. Plus if all that was true would we really be selling so many underwear and swinsuit textures. :) Look for my Michael textures. They asked I not show genitalia in the ad renders. No foul. Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Anton, the place would not be the same without you. I have learned more from your little discoveries postings than from any tutorial. I wish you well, sir. Regards, Q

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

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Senior MarketPlace Tester

If anyone sees a mind wandering aimlessly around..... It is mine.  I want it back.

casamerica: Hope that lawyer didn't say: EU LA pay for it.... Or is that really what it stands for. Q

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

Anton, I disagree with homosexuality because of my religious beliefs, but I think you are perhaps the most talented figure creator out there, outside of Chris Creek, who made Mike and Vicky. I'm personally very glad that Daz doesn't delve into the adult realm with their figures, although some brokered products lean that way. I don't buy from folks who create adult products or create adult images. I do respect you and think your work is awesome, and your skillz are a good fit with Daz. Can't wait to see y'alls' "Poser Competitor" software perhaps we could nickname it for a while, perhaps call it "Eclipse" or something, while it is still under wraps. Competing with CL will be a huge challenge, but it will be fun to watch, and sit back and spend money! I wonder how this will effect the current Poser community, and compatibility of Daz products for Poser. God bless, Ben

Dot!?! All we get is Dot? Sheesh, at least say howdy as yer passin' through. :)

!

Anton Take it from a man who lived there. They do not like gays, people of darker color, woman who are not their slaves, people of other relegions. They will use you for there cause and speak with a devils tongue. Ron

Being Libertarian...religiously ambiguous...and sexually active, I say bring on the competition. Nothing better for pushing development and cost-effectiveness than good ol' competition. This thread is turning over to a rope. I just got home from out of state and the brown box from Airborne was waiting. Just loaded without a hitch. Mick

Being Libertarian...let everyone do what they want, as long as they do not physically harm others. The best law is very little law and the best government is the least. The vast majority of all killing and violation of individual rights are from government and religion. Why do you think our US founding father wanted to keep them separate. Like two bullies in the china shop of human creativity. Give me financial freedom (income taxes are legalized theft) and let DAZ and CL work hard to make each of their products the best. Get a flat tax so I can have more descretionary time and money to play (or work with their products)...not support some politicians motives to get re-elected. Sorry had a rant attack....

oops...errata 1) founding fathers and mothers! 2) (or work) with their products and those of all other artists 3) what the h*ll is a Libertarian

There is an echo in here here...here...here...here Just got off the road driving 250 miles, celebrating a year post quadruple bypass, sitting in polyester, itching may A** To tired to mess the P5, but this weekend will be different.

How did a discussion of Curious Labs, DAZ3D, and the P5 EULA turn into a discussion in which we must declare our personal politics, religious beliefs and opinions about others' personal lives? Ah, yes, the internet! How I love it. But shouldn't we retitle the thread: "Anton and the Mormons: Kinky or Just Plain Wrong?" Phoenix

Ronmolina, Yapple-Dable-hocus-pocus....pooof I'm a goat. :) Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

wondering.... when did this change from poser forum to religious philosophies forum?...checks one last time...nope still says "welcome to the poser forum"..hmmm sorry maybe it's just me :

Because Daz tried to manipulate people for there cause to harm others. I do not like that. I hope others would agree. Ron

(phoenixamon you beat me to the post, just wanted to bookmark it then read what was there.) Curious Labs with competition?! mv

Ron, No offense intended, but please say what you mean. "Daz tried to manipulate people for there cause to harm others." What does that mean? How did they try to manipulate people? What is "their cause"? What did Anton steal (post #32)? "Daz will never do that. I have done something that will not let them. This will be a private matter between me and them." What does THAT mean? What can you possibly have done? If it's private, why did you post it here? You seem to be making a lot of inuendos without actually bothering to state any facts, and it's just confusing. I don't even know based on your posts whether to agree with you. :) Phoenix

:O holy poop stains batman...looks like the hit is fitting the shan!

Daz will soon here from uncle Ron. Hey Anton was wondering where your bat is? Ron

...!

Hey Look! It's a GOAT!

alright PA, ya got me. Hi. Interesting threads these days. I'm supposed to be on vacation these last few days but keep ducking in to check out what's happening. Kupa

dude ron...yer starting to sound like one of those scary camp counselers man...sheesh...chill br0

Hi Steve. Get some well deserved rest. That P5 is just fantastic. Registration took all of 20 seconds. Great job. Q PS: guys, can we get back to the subject. Take the god stuff, the hatred and other various angst to OT or IM, please.

Un coup de dés jamais n'abolira le hazard
S Mallarmé

Cheech: Shibornik, what's that... Chong: Looks like dog shit to me... Cheech: What? Smell it! Chong: PU! Smells like dog shit... Cheech: What? Taste it! Chong: Yuk! Taste like dog shit.. Cheech: Don't step in it! Flash back...sorry I was in college in the 60's

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Well, Ron, clearly you want other people to agree with you. You said so yourself. But I don't even know what you're saying, so I can't possibly agree. You sound like you're making empty threats, and then not even explaining what anybody did wrong. If you can not tell us what you plan on doing about it, at least you could tell us what the offense was. And if you can't, there's just no point to posting. Kupa, Thanks. :) Hope you're getting a bit of rest. I'm having a love-hate relationship with P5. I'll be sending you a box of chocolates soon, only half of them filled with dog poo. ;) It will be sent via Airborne, so you probably won't get it anyway. ;) wolfshade, You said it! :) Phoenix

Ron you don't seem like a bad person but you are alittle scary with your mood swings. I was here and remember you using the Zygote Wolf Head to make something you claimed as your ouwn. I aslo remember you tried to discredit and embarrasss WyrWulf who brought it to everyoones's attention. You have to speak truth. It is not funny or entertaining to start stories and allude to secrets and such. What is going on now is very very important in the community. There are real people and real companies involved. This isn't a game. You need to calm down and stop making things up about matters to which noone has spoken to you about. Anton http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=339121

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

The Real Truth Behind The P5 EULA: Is it is great and gives us what we asked for! But some folks wish to take that away! Wish all well tonight. Ron

Cheech and Chong episode brought to you WITH NO HIDDEN MEANING...pure comic relief. I'm too brain dead to be clever tonight. Kupa, really excited about P5, loaded without a hitch and hoping the best of success. No hate from me...life is to short. To each his/her own. Suspect the real truth of EULA is that you have to protect your investment...despite the fact that only those that respect your investment will abide. This is the paradox of all laws. Designed to stop behaviour by those who do not plan to abide, therefore primarily affecting those who plan to abide. Life is rampant with paradox and bias. But humans are the animal the "rationalizes" all behaviors.

Good night all.

I don't see how the EULA could be aimed at DAZ, since all it it accomplishes is to prevent someone from creating a competing product by using Poser. If someone wants to create a competing product, they are free to do so, they just can't use Poser to do it.

Back to the basics ..... The issue of copyrighted file formats, menu command hierarchies, commands, and similar was determined in the landmark case of Lotus Development Corporation v. Borland International before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the First Circuit, No. 93-2214 and affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 94-2003. The courts held that file formats, menu command hierarchies, commands, and similar are uncopyrightable "procedures" or "methods of operation". The Supreme Court previously explained in an earlier case: "The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. To this end, copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed by the work." This means you can copyright the arrangement of commands, but not the commands or the file format.

I wanted to ask, before this thread gets locked, what's the point in attacking some religious group? It just makes you look like a fool when you drop to that level of hatred. Also, some company's EULA might be ludicrous and illegal, but no end user would benefit from contesting it. Only a competitor would benefit from contesting it, and the end users might end up getting trampled in the ensuing battle.

..markin' my place for the morning. ;)

...... Kendra

Hey Kupa, did you hear about how smoothly casamerica's registration went?

What a long read. With all these twist & turns the soap operas should be here getting material.

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What we do in life, echoes in eternity.

E-mail | Renderosity Homepage | Renderosity Store | RDNA Store

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Ron, dude, take it easy bud... you're even scaring me. Jack

Jack I am going to speak my mind! I have suppoted you Diane and Dan. You must know that? I still will! Now when people claim to own things they dont that pisses me off! Who owns the wolf? Ron

What I said up there ^. Anyone need more Chez-Its? Gin and tonic? Little cheese goldfish? You can bite their heads off. Valium? You'll have to ask Marque for the valium. casamerica

Ron, Meshes in Poser are liscenced by the Company that created them to Curious Labs. Ownership is not transfered. Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Yes please pass then here. Ron

Pizza?

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

The only thing I'm sad about is that I'm not a fly on the wall in Mods forum here right now. ;] Bet THAT's a zoo. snicker

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Anton Not if they took them from others! I have my source documents do they? Ron

Ron, please. Clearly you are now just being silly. Please call me or call Daz and we will explain why you can't use the wolf head and such. Night all. Anton

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Anton Is it Daz that says that we can not use things? Just wish to know. And by the way please produce your source documents! If Daz claims that they own the wolf now you pissed me off. Please produce them. All source going back to the 80s. I say little but dont like it when some piss on others. Ron

Ah. You mean this is still over you posting a freebie that incorporated the Poser wolf's head into a prop you made? From a thread well over a year ago? Sheesh.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

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Ron, I know you supported Diane and Dan and I hope that you still do. The both of them did great work. As for the wolf, if you are talking about Viewpoint owning the wolf, you are partially correct, since most of the members of DAZ worked for Viewpoint and retained some form of ownership of the meshes they created. DAZ didn't steal them... DAZ as part of Viewpoint created them and own rights to them. Just like the characters that they released as Zygote and then as DAZ for Poser 2, 3, 4 and as far as I know, still have licensed ownership of the characters in Poser 5 (at least I hope they do, or this is a whole new can of worms that don't be needing no opening in the Community). Either way, they own that wolf and it's mesh. Jack

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::waves at FaerieGurl:: Cute dance earlier... I never knew ears could make you that happy. :o) Jack

waves back Haha! I've been wanting some good ears for a while now.. :O) Cookie

heh... I'll just leave a bookmark on this one... Poserpros seems easier to keep track of somehow, despite the 467 posts.

::points to his and wiggles them:: Do these count? LOL Jack

So the master manipulators have been caught out at last, it should have been obvious months ago daz were trying to stitch CL up with the EULA they bought out, it didn't work then & it wont work now, CL own the cr2 format & if daz use it in a competitor for poser then they are in serious trouble. I love your models so stick to making them, don't try to compete with CL it'll only hurt the community, maybe even destroy it & that will destroy you too.

Geez, wotta lotta BS in this thread - aggression and crap. Us non-Americans just shake our heads at it. You guys are SO uptight! Get a life people, go Pose instead. If DAZ starts up a competing app, fine. I'll have both. If Adobe starts starts up a competing app, fine. I'll have all 3. As long as they're price competitive with Poser and not off the deep end. I don't give a rat's ass about the quibbles between companies, I want to Pose. And Anton, you're cool, dig having you around here. :] Fish

Tf? Aqt rozwo, ixge paz aqt taod uixgqt.

Thanks Fish. Longest bookmark I have ever seen. Before I leave this thread I just want to say that Daz's sole business has been to make products for CuriouLabs's poser. There is a building, employees, equipment, salaries and such all devoted to Poser. We like making Poser products. And hope to continue. I think you all really know that. I hope so anyway. You know us. We are the same people we were last lear and the year before. All companies need to grow to survive. Not being included in Poser5 doesn't leave a company, building, salaries etc much else of a choice but to grow. :) Please realize that this is serious. It goes beyond threads, flames and entertainment. Companies negotiate all the time but if Daz and CL working together is so important please don't throw insult and stories around that simply "sound good". To some it may be funny or dramatic but adding fuel to the fire by either making things up or stating rumor as fact can be more damaging than any EULA. This isn't an average topic and you could very well cause problems between our companies we can't fix. After seven years of being here, and looking up at all those bookmarks above me, I say this as "me" and not as a Daz person. "Daz cannot harm Poser...but these threads can." Anton :)

-Anton, creator of ApolloMaximus: 32,000+ downloads since 3-13-07
"Conviction without truth is denial; Denial in the face of truth is concealment."

NEW The Poser FaceInterMixer

That depends Jack, how well will they morph? LOL! ;O) Cookie

Us non-Americans just shake our heads at it. You guys are SO uptight!<<< With all due respect, that line is a load of BS itself. Perusing through the above thread and others, I see some of the more "colorful" and "strong" statements coming from... TADA! Non-Americans! Anyway, Fish, it makes no difference. I think the rest of your post is right on and maybe we should all settle down a bit. Gin and tonic? It's as smooth as a registration for P5 to CL! Chez-Its? Little, bitty, cheese goldfish? You can bite their heads off. casamerica

I'm just bookmarking this... "Hi" :)

Well at least no one here is complainingh about P5 bugs... I think I'm going to invest in the company that makes Valium and Prozac. However, the way some people have been talking here maybe I should invest in Thorazine instead...

Ron, dude, STOP taking the recreational drugs, START taking the prescription ones. You sound like you got mixed up there.

a competing program that uses DAZfigures!!!???? just make sure you develope a plugin for hosting animation in other programs like LW C4DXl MAX etc. :-)

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Someone here needs to stop eating the red mushrooms with white dots... They make you feel funny and obviously they make you post weird things in the forum. CL, Daz, whatever - as long as we get good products. (waves at Anton, finally got your VCFS, been drooling over it for so long and now got it thanks to the Medieval sale)

Amen, wolf. My thinking exactly.

x2000 announced that Daz was planning to release a Poser-like application and that that was the reasoning behind some of the controversial language in the Poser 5 EULA. x2000 felt that this was big news and should be shared with the community. x2000 assumes no responsibility for personal attacks, hurt feelings, hysteria, broken bones, burnt flesh, missing eyeballs, or other injuries inflicted during the course of this thread. x2000 does not consent to or approve of these actions and can not be held liable. In fact, some of you people give x2000 the willies.

lmao @ x2 boy you really are a troublemaker aren't you? snicker

DOES DAZ OWN A RUBBER TOMAHAWK STORE?

Take the red pill dammit.

If you want to up your content game, get schooled to be a pro with Sixus1 Mentoring today!

DAZ only mentioned making a rendering and animation tool... Last I checked, Poser does a lot more than just render and animate. Food for thouught. (BTW - waaaaaaaaaaay up there - Ron, I live in Utah; where do I go to get me some of these female slaves you've been asserting? More imprortantly, how do I do it without pissing off my wife? ) /P

Step One: Cut down on the caffeine. Step Two: Take a step back and try to look at the big picture. Okay, Daz may be considering a competitive program to Poser. There are questions on the legality of this due to the EULA. There are questions on the legality of the EULA. The sky is not falling. Life on Earth has not ceased. Go get some chocolate and start in on a new render. Let things settle down a bit and see what develops. Cheers!

The community should NOT "go get some chocolate and start in on a new render" nor should it "let things settle down a bit and see what develops". That's not what this community is all about. This is a community with a TRADITION. A FINE tradition of overreacting to niggling little problems, a tradition of screeching with wild speculations, a tradition of imperious grandstanding, and a tradition of nasty insinuation, petulant whining, and irritating nitpicking of sentence syntax. To even SUGGEST that the members of this artists community to calm down, think rationally, and render artwork is a slap in the face to all of the artists here who contribute the endless river of whining, screeching blather that is this fine Poser forum. The people here have a RIGHT to be terribly upset at...um...whatever this thread is about. Apologize, NOW, or I swear I will start posting sections of the TOS, take down all my freestuff, pull my gallery, remove all my store items, delete all my old posts, and come back as a clone next week.

I just stepped in to ask how you make those blank bookmarks. But since I'm here, Legume you left out the word 'to' in your line, "...artists here who contribute ^^ the endless river of whining,..."

I just want to say that I am firmly opposed to the idea of a Legume Clone. One is plenty.

"In fact, some of you people give x2000 the willies." lol.

...... Kendra

Ok lets see imports all the the millennium figures of courseUses a mult-channel animation system and leases or buy all of the good Technology from credos lifeforms ( an app thats surely near death anyway) I dont care about the renderer but at least as Good as truespace or bryce3d Accepts/exports standard BVH files and exports animations to Cinema 4DXL For MAC OSX!!! Lightwave 3D for a MAC OSX!!!! and MAX. STORED pose libraries conforming clothing. etc Anyone care to join in????

My website

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Did not, Jackson. I just took down my freestuff. Don't correct my grammar again, or I will start insinuating that I have secret knowledge of wrongdoing on your part. I will hint and issue empty threats until it no longer matters that I'm a lying sack of crap.

OH yes MIMIC built in and retasked for the millenuim figures

My website

YouTube Channel

You left out the old and very STRONG tradition here of people making utterly unintelligible and probably quite meaningless posts in which nobody can figure out what was actually said due to the weird sentence structure and bizarrely juxtaposed words, not to mention the other fine tradition of posting in totally meaningless gibberish, as madyuri demonstrated above. C'mon now. We can't have you, or anyone, leaving THESE fine traditions out of your sterling list of the other ones. We have standards to hold down. ;o)

Just sticking my (.) here as well...(this is cool tabloid stuff)...

Do any of you think that the REAL ronmolina is being held captive, tied and gagged, in his house while a terrorist is posting messages from his computer to make it seem like everything's okay? Should we call the FBI? Just wondering... --jjsemp

Okay, I think this thread as degenerated far enough :-)