I have been asked to head up a partition against the present security system that Poser 5 uses.

There are a number of reasons this security system is a worry to a number of us, and I will list them here. Please note that none of these are scare tactics, and all of them have been confirmed through present users of Poser 5, or through Curious Labs own words on this site.

1)Forced registration you HAVE to register your software with your private details.

2)If you do not have access to the internet you have to call or mail Curious Labs for your activation code. This could be both time consuming and costly to people not in United States.

3)If Curious Labs goes bankrupt there is no evidence other then a statement from Curious Labs on this Forum that customers will be protected and still be able to use their bought software. There is no legal statement in the EULA stating that they will supply you with a method to remove the Activation Process to reinstall your software.

4)According to Curious Labs own statements their Security Confirmation Code is taken from the serial/details of your hard drive. Thus if you have to replace your hard drive, or if you install on another hard drive you will need to get a new activation code. This could be a problem for both reason 2) and reason 3).

What if I upgrade hardware in my computer?
Provided you use the same main hard drive in your computer, you will not need to unlock Poser 5 with Curious Labs. Your Poser 5 Response and Challenge codes will not change. -taken from Curious Labs site

What if I use a program like DriveCopy to transfer the contents of one hard drive to another? Will I need a new Response Code key for Poser 5?
Poser 5 will require a new Response Code if it is moved to a new hard drive. Poser 5 will create a new Challenge Code and will need a new Response Code. You will have 7 days to run Poser 5 without the new Response Code key." -taken from Curious Labs site

5. According to Curious Labs own FAQ on Poser 5 registration, if you format your harddrive you will need to get a new key.

What if I need to reinstall Poser 5? Go ahead and reinstall. If you have not re-formatted your hard drive, you will not need to get a new key. Poser 5 will display the same Challenge Code unless you have changed your computers main hard drive or re- formatted it. Simply enter your original, saved Response Code. You will not need to unlock Poser 5 again or contact Curious Labs. -taken from Curious Labs site

What if I reformat my hard drive?*
The Challenge Code is stored on and based on your computers main hard drive. If you re-format your main drive, you will need to unlock Poser 5 again. If you are using the same hard drive you used before, Poser 5 will create the same Challenge Code as it did before. In this case, simply re-enter your saved Response Code. You will not need to contact Curious Labs unless you did not save your original Response Code.*" -taken from Curious Labs site

6)According to their FAQ on their homepage you are only allowed to get 3 activation reattempts before you must contact Curious Labs directly to request a new response code.

How many times can I contact Curious Labs for a new Response Code? *
We currently permit three unique Response Code keys to be generated for your serial number of Poser 5. In most normal circumstances our service department will allow additional keys to be generated. You will need to contact our service department for additional keys.* -taken from Curious Labs site

What happens if I need more than the allowed number of registrations? *
If you applying for a fourth or greater new Response Code key, you will be informed that you have exceeded the maximum number of allowed installations. If you need additional Response Code keys you should send your request to our service department via email or fax. It will be helpful for you to describe your reasons for requesting additional Response Code keys. It is Curious Labs policy to permit our legitimate customers to use our products to their full potential. You may be asked to confirm your registration information to confirm your identity.* -taken from Curious Labs site

As one might see the following security measures by Curious Labs are invasive, and will also cause possible issues to their End-Users.

According to a message from Steve Cooper from Curious Labs they are thinking about including a Hardware Dongle system:
Our security technique actually should allow a portable, permanent, hardware dongle to be used in conjunction with the existing system. We are exploring this option and should have better details shortly.

However instead of allowing us the options it appears that they are going to use this hardware dongle in conjunction with the present security system. This is totally unacceptable, and is the reason why a few of us have finally decide we need to take this next step.

Please if you disagree with this protection scheme, if you are like us and want to see Curious Labs change their present protection scheme for something that is not as intrusive to its users make your voice heard here! Sign the Partition against the present activation scheme.

Again we wish to see a more non-intrusive protection scheme being used, similar to CD Dongle, Hardware Dongle, or even just Serial Number verification. However we are more then open to discussions with Curious Labs, since we understand that they still need to try and protect their software against warez groups, and illegal software activity.

Let our voices be heard as one after all we are the people who keep Curious Labs in business!!
WiNC

You make a lot good points !

I have been asked to quickly state that ANY signature you make on this does NOT mean you agree with Hardware Dongle, or CD Dongle. However ANY signature you make to this partition will mean that you agree with the need for Curious Labs to replace their present security scheme with something less intrusive, and that the best way for them to do this is for them to come to the table and discuss the issues with the community. We use Poser people - if it isn't for us, there wouldn't be a Poser! WiNC

anything beyond a serial number is intrusive

Pirates can mutate with the new protection trends but legitimate customers will be the ones stuck suffering the effects of this mess :(

I love poser as well as the next guy but this is rediculous, Well wont be getting the new bryce or poser from the look of things.... Sad too Cause I like 3d art....Well guess all go back and stay with the old stuff...

Naw, no dingle dangle dongle for me. I will put up with no such thing, nor an activation scheme.

.

While I am against the idea of hardware dongles, because they assume that there are open ports and often have problems and cause problems that are unrelated to the protection of the software (not to mention what if every company wanted a dongle, where would we put them?), I agree with this petition not to take out the problems on the legitimate owners, when it's almost guaranteed that whatever protection it has will be cracked in days anyway... So basically the warez kitties get software without the hassle, and we who bought Poser 4 and now are considering or have bought Poser 5 get the shaft. Doesn't really seem fair, does it? All this is also very strange after Curious Labs gave amnesty to every pirate they could find...

I Agree.

Bryce going this way too, mqshocker?

.

I don't like being forced to register my software. I didn't call Ford and tell them I bought one of their cars so I could get permission to use it. Nor do I call Ford to get their permission to "rent" a Ford car from a rental place. shrug And no, the majority of my software is not registered. It's none of the company's business that I bought it. They got their money one way or the other, they don't need my address, ssn, date of birth, or computer configuration. (by that I mean from the store I bought it from)

I agree. Plus, this should have been made clear from the start.

I agree too, and did you look at the challenge response code? Try typing that in manually after a long day at the office. dongle doesn't bother me, if you need that many dongle apps open at the same time, um, maybe its time to network? I don't mind registering as long as I don't get on a spam list.

I agree with WiNC, and here's another signature in the petition. The current setup just makes for more trouble to legit users and doesn't do anything to stop someone dedicated to warez a copy.

Agree with all the above! I already have dongles for 2 apps in my machine and would not have physical space for a third. Also, I cant imagine what they actually want with all this. One it is a fact that every software, no matter how protected, is sooner than latter cracked, why, then, do they need all this? To bother us, the people who are planning to buy it? And about the registration, I could not agree more with Chailynne. One last word about the legal thing above: poser went from fractal studios (i believe this was the name of the publisher of P1) to metacreations and now to Curious Labs. If not for the money, for the soft then: If I buy something, I like the Idea that this something is mine and that I will not loose it should the company brake down... is almost like saying that if M$ went bankrupt, people would be unable to continue using (installing and re-installing) windows!

Offering alternatives could be advantageous

Add me to the list of those who oppose the new security system...both the Challenge Code AND ESPECIALLY the dongle!!! I've been using 3DS Max for a few years and even after they FINALLY abandoned the hardware dongle and went to the challenge code system it has been a nightmare. Besides, how can they require a dongle at this stage?!! I haven't even gotten my P5 yet and I've already got a headache. Look, I support Curious Labs' right to protect itself against piracy, but I also agree that this system does little or nothing to prevent that. Legitimate customers will suffer the most for this. The pirates will find a way around it, if they haven't already.

I agree with ShadowWind... after giving amnesty to anyone who pirated the software, this is ridiculous.

Let me clarify: I have a legitimate copy of 3DS Max.

I purchased Poser 1 from Fractal Creations.
... Poser 2 from Metacreations.
... Poser 3 from Metacreations.
... Poser 4 from Curious Labs.
... and Poser 5 from Curious Labs.

Hypothetical:
If Curious Labs goes out of business (and I hope they do NOT) and I buy a new computer 1-2 years from now, am I just SOL (s*** out of luck) from using P5?

I DO NOT like this possibility at all.

It is NOT a good way to treat customers.

Therefore, I sign this petition to CL to do something to "protect" it's honest customers without hindering their use of this product.

How about it CL? Please listen to your customers.

The thieves will always be "out there," and no matter how big or strong a padlock you put on the door, if someone really wants to break in, they will figure out a way to "smash" that padlock.

cheers, (?)
Dr Geep
;=|

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

Ayyayayay what a hassle this is all sounding , Im siging!! Considering if my memory serves poser being sold ? once already a system such as this only serves to make the decision wether to upgrade an easy one, Wont be happening while this is in place. Cheers ya all

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=867259&Start=1

um, I've included the ONLY quote made from Kupa on the topic of Dongles. WiNC had some great points in the original thread, and had a great idea that Hardware Dongles could be a great alternative for people WHO WANTED THEM AS AN OPTION. Kupa only gave one breif reply in response in the linked thread: "Our security technique actually should allow a portable, permanent, hardware dongle to be used in conjunction with the existing system. We are exploring this option and should have better details shortly. Steve Cooper Curious Labs" Draw your own conclusion, but here I'm pretty sure that they mean that a hardware dongle would allow the same protection scheme without the activation. Not be an Added Burden!!!! from this ONE post I don't know how wince jumped to his conclusion about how it will be implemented... here's winc's original response to the above message: "Steve, Do you mean in conjunction meaning that you will be still require people to register with you and still request activation code from your company - or do you mean that it will be a alterative for those who wish to use your product and therefore not have to go through all the issues with activation codes, and 'forced' registration? I hope you mean the later :) I look forward to your response :) " Since there are no other responses from CL, It's funny to see people saying that CL is giong to force them to use a dongle!! lol

I'm suer someone already cracked it... The easiest way is "pre-loaders". Though inheretly unstable, they are possible. I'm pretty sure someone has already written a "pre-loader" that fools Poser to think they are using the same drive when in fact, the loader can be used on any computer regardless of the main drive. These do exist, though not all for piracy reasons, but they are feasble even with hardware dongles... I've used loaders for helping debug programs I'm helping with, and even a few games to help me get past a certian level. That said, I dont like the thought of dongles, I dont have any available space and imagine the hassle if you lost it... Unless if they utilize my audio input, go for it it is the only open port on my comp. I'm one of the types of users I may use one HD to boot, then 30min later, I'm on a new drive, but poser has its own dedicated drive. It wouldnt be so bad if poser kept to the drive it is installed on. I have 8 HD's total (3 in my comp and others networked and are removable). Right now, I'm on a comp of mine that has 2 system drives for this box and another comp of mine. CD dongles are just as bad... many times I listen to music on my computer while worknig and unfortunately I cannot put another drive in my computer so that means I will need to quit listening to music while I work (except another floppy). These things are also easy to bypass... I had a DOS game once that loaded many of its data off a CD though I spent 150MB to do the full install, so I copied the 500MB data file over and bypassed it myself an easy ini file edit was all it took. Needless to say, I've seem many loaders, crackers, editors while on my search to look for cheat codes in some games I bought espeically after I beat them and these "cracks" are a dime a dozen. This point was intended to say that regardless of your procedures it will get cracked, not how, but when... However, dont get me wrong I register apps (the serial, number my name, & email) that have free upgrades or ones I want to register. I've already got a free update to a program I own and that was nice, but its a program I use more than poser. I dont see myself even upgrading to XP because it uses your hardware config for identification... So, that means I'm at Win2k till I go linux. Hence, M$ wont get any money off my for buying XP because I dont want the hassle. I will not knowingly buy any software (espcially if I spend a weeks paycheck on it) to have to rely on the company for the stability of the progam if I can install it... My list: Dongles - Bad Challenge code and verification - Bad Serials - OK (what can I say, I'm used to them and I'm sure most users are) Phone Home - VERY BAD (all non-critial system connections are blocked by my firewall) Even Poser4's network broadcast is blocked by my firewall. less active connections = less open thing to get bombed by a script kiddie. No serial - Ok but I'd prolly have to give my DNA, SSN, school records, my pet, blood signed contract, left arm and left leg. Most likey I wont get Poser5 because of the time hassle with the way I run my computers. So though, Poser 4 is doning what I want it to do. Suggestion to CL if they keep their current system: I'm sure most users install Poser on a separate drive and or partition which doesnt get formatted during the usual format and reinstall of Windows. In this event, make it where it uses the drive it is on for the challenge code. Yes, its still a hassle for people who only have 1 HD, but you wont need to deal with people who have to contact you just because Windows F'ed up, which usually requires a format. Poser4 has stayed on the same drive and put in any computer I use (the drive is partioned into 2 drives one for poser, and one for my stuff). Thus I have one code, and the code will work regardless of the computer I use (so I'll only need another code for my laptop). I understand that you want to protect your software, but the harder you work to put security in, the faster it will fall still leaving the legit users lined up on hold and sending 1000's of emails a day (essentially alienating them and becoming a bitter company that you begin to see your users as a chore). Tosses 2 pennies into the hat I hope I made sense with all this... -MGCJerry Fellow Poser4 User/Addict

Dear Josh, We believe we have made a fair conclusion off what Steve Cooper has said in the other thread. I have asked for confirmation and have not seen any from Steve (and my confirmation happened pretty much right after her made the first reply). This is typical of the type of behaviour from Curious Labs, they will state something, give indication that something will me "made clear" later on, and usually we don't know about it until it becomes final. Again his quote was that the Dongle was going to be used "in conjunction" with the present system. In my book "in conjunction" means at the same time, with something else, not without the other! Therefore our assumption is a fair and valid concern that they will use a Hardware Dongle key for the Challenge Code instead of the harddrive. However, if this is the case, this does NOT bring to question some our other concerns about what happens if CL close their doors, or regarding forced registration, or people who have no internet and are not in United States. Though this type of security protection is better then getting the Challenge Code form the harddrive, it is still not a good system which we can agree on. So - though this petition might be for nothing - we still feel that this petition is just, because of past actions of Curious Labs to just introduce something without concern for the interests of their customers (ie the present security system) we believe this petition warrants being used. We would rather our voices be heard now - instead of after they inforce something else which will be just as intrusive against their clients. Since you responded to the partition I take it you are in agreement that the present security system needs to be removed for something different? If not - I suggest you state so. Yours Sincerly, WiNC

MGCJerry, I installed P5 to a separate partition (on a different physical hard drive, in fact) but the registration key is STILL linked to my C drive. That seems not to be an option. So although your tip sounds like a good idea, it doesn't appear it would work. Phoenix

"I have asked for confirmation and have not seen any from Steve (and my confirmation happened pretty much right after her made the first reply). " Har, winc, You've got to remember, your post came in at night here in the US. even though steve posted to your reply, he might have done that and then gone home, ir just turned in for the night. I've already said that I think the present security system works great for a LOT of people, and that you have some good points why it might not be good for ALL people. I also thought that it was a good suggeation to add a dongle option. Especially for those who are not able to get to the internet, or want better reassurance and are ready to help with the extra $30-$40 that it could cost to make the dongle. I completely think you're off the deep end for reading so much into what was a quick nighttime response from the President of a Company! Good greif. Try looking for Bill Gates online responding to users concerns. Don't you think it's a little hasty to jump on him for what you think he meant by one word, when he's probably asleep in bed by now? please, I think as a community there's a lot of good people here who can work together. Show me that I'm right. I've got a lot of fun tools that I'd love to develop for people here. thanks! -Josh

Phoenix - can you please confirm that if you have Poser 5 on another hard drive, and you format your main drive that Poser 5 requires reactivation? If this is the case - then even if you do use another harddrive anyone reinstalling Windows (which like me - requires a Format C:) will require to get a new activation code from Curious Labs... (please assure me that they were not that silly) I don't know how much Curious Labs put into this security system - but I can't help thinking if they had put that money into Research and Development they could have fixed up the bloody elbows! :-) WiNC

PS. just for the record, winc, the "security technique" that would be used in "conjunction" with a dongle could be the tricks/method they use to protect the software, NOT the activation system. this would mean that the dongle could replace the activation system to work in conjunction with the security. Not you're interpretation of it working in conjunction with an activation system. Once again, I'm just trying to be reasonable, and point out where you (might) have jumped to a conclusion about what kupa said. Give the guy a little credit for responding to you in the first place, no?

I agree. I brought Poser 5 anyway, but if this Activation scheme persist I wont buy P6.

Yep put my name on the list. Like Chailynne I too think that when I hand over my hard earned cash for products then I want them to be mine, should we remame Curious Labs, Big Brother Lab's. "And it came to pass that the hallowed el president did say thou shalt only use poser on the last friday of the month west coast standard time". Like others have already pointed out the legite people always and i mean always get the bad deal, and any response to this thread from Curious Lab`s in defence cannot take away the intrusion and other headaches their security scheme is going to cause. How many times have threads been posted where members have shared their misfortune with a cry my computer has died! crashed! gone pop. We all know from bitter experience about having to reinstall. SO NO NO NO to this system of security I want my poser 5 to be MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Josh, And that is the point of this petition - that Curious Labs come to the table and we work on the requirement for security instead of them just imposing a protection scheme on us which is intrusive. I could quote the dictionary of what "conjunction" means - but everyone has one of those. It is a strange word to use, it usually doesn't get "confused" for seperately, individually, or independant of. Therefore while you believe we have come to a incorrect conclusion - we believe that our conclusion is just and correct in the present context of Steve's comments. Until then I will not continue replying to comments about our interpretation of the situation and we will await Steve's response while this petition continues to grow and show our dislike for the present intrusive system. Yours sincerely, WiNC

Attached Link: See The Thread With Kupa's actuall comments Here

WiNC, I'm not disputing your definition of conjunction, just what you believe it's working in conjunction with (ie. it work in conjunction with the protection, not the activation) luckily the posts are all here on the linked thread, and people can cleary see that cooper is responding to your request for a Dongle instead of the intrusive activation.

And again, I think it's really unfair to say that Steve's "not responding" when it's 2am here in the states

Online activation: never liked it, never will. Still waiting to see if this silliness will carried over onto the Mac version.

It's "petition". A "partition" is what you install Windows to...

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

For the record - I have no problem with the current challenge code system (as long as it works as advertised!). But the day they require a hardware solution is the day I stop using Poser. I've got too damned much hardware as it is!

Thank you Ironbear for your insight - yes I know I made a mistake... If you don't want to sign the petition for the reasons indicated then PLEASE do not sign - it is our right to have this petition. So unless Renderosity Management decide this isn't allowed please allow us our legitimate right. The petition is against the PRESENT activation security system that Curious Labs are using right now. If you disagree with this security system - please sign - all posts should be seen as agreement with the petition topic... WiNC

no software or hardwaredongle or any similar scheme!! Registration is ok, but nothing is acceptable that,s only temporarly. Robert

First off, you need to relax some. Seriously. This isn't a campaign against evil incarnate... it's just some complaints and concerns against a security system you don't happen to like.

You're welcome to state your problems/opinions...but it seems a little odd to me the sheer amount of vitriol that seems to be involved. It's puzzling.

Now, since Steve is probably asleep, I'll take a second and discuss the nature of Challenge/Response systems and what Steve might well have meant by "in conjunction". I'll call it C/R for short :)

The Poser5 license system uses C/R to validate your installation. The software uses code to reduce your system into a challenge by evaluating or hashing some parameters. it looks like they are using portions of the inbuilt identification common to hard drives.

This challenge needs to be met by a proper Response, the response is usually generated by combining the challenge with some secret information (like a cryptographic key) to arrive at a response that in theory "proves" that the response could only have come from Curious Labs.

Notice that the basics of C/R don't CARE what communications method you use. They ask for a challenge, they get a response and it's all good. Whether that response is typed in each time, or stored in a file, or transmitted over the internet is completely irrelevant. It is still a challenge/response system in all those cases.

That includes the us of modern dongles.**

In other words, a dongle is inherently a challenge/response system. The dongle contains a small CPU that is capable of performing calculations. Those calculations almost always are used to construct a valid response to a challenge. Since in theory this hardware is a secure carrier for the "secret" information, the publisher can allow the dongle to issue responses autonomously.

So when Steve mentions that thy would be using a dongle in conjunction with the current system he may mean two things, both of which are accurate and useful:

• That the dongle may well be considered another valid source of a response. So the system will happily take it from the dongle, or fall back on the web and manual input methods if the dongle isn't present.
• That all dongle systems are challenge/response based - and as such the fundamental security code of Poser would not have to change. The architecture and code stays basically the same... a dongle slides right on in.

So if you relax and look at it with some understanding of the security model involved and the code/hardware you see that the phrase "in conjunction" is completely accurate and does not imply that one would need to both own a dongle and get a response code from CL.

Relax.

Personally, I am surprised CL is bothering to explore other options at all. Certainly changing the security model of a product at this date is an expensive consideration - and it certainly reflects well on their desire to sooth community outcry from a vocal few that they would explore the options.

don't like then don't buy it end of story, stop the bullsh*t & lets get back to what this community is all about.

My 'Personal' Opinion on this is that I have zero problem with the current Security system set in place - however the only valid point I aggree with is the need for an additional activation key at a time when the software is no longer supported. It isn't as bad as MAX/Lightwave which can be a pain, with its Dongle and serial number AND Activation codes - but I have had zero problem with eitehr of those two programs. I dont see the problem of you received, with your order, your '1' activation key and this key would be used to install your software as many times as you need to (i.e. reinstalling os, format drive etc), 1 copy per network if that is what you paid for.

Sure, I'll sign gladly even though I already have my own solution to the problem. Been there, done that, won't do it again. At this point the lingering taste is so sour I'm not sure that I'll get P5 even if the copy protection is dropped. If DAZ does produce a competeting product I will happily go there, assuming they do not also adopt such a protection scheme. - Jack

I remember when this registration security issue was discussed the first time. After a lot of griping and grief, Curious Labs said they wouldn't do this to us, and would consider another solution.

So I happily pre-ordered my Poser5 copy, believing their word.

Trust no one.

The registration scheme is in place and I'm stuck with a program that will cease to be useable WHEN Curious Labs goes out of business. I don't say "if", but "when" they go out of business because the Poser software has a history of changing hands.

I'm relatively new to digital art. The only reason I originally bought a computer was to work at home. Luckily, I discovered the joys of the internet and gaming, which lead to 3D art. I don't buy much in the way of software beyond my OS, a couple of games and now Jasc Paint Shop Pro, to work with Poser.

Unless it is an online game, like Everquest, none of the other programs required registration. My first ever registration was with Poser, and I don't like it. The scheme is unreliabile and useless against hacking, as was demonstrated by another Renderosity member who displayed a crack code in a previous post.

So... the registration code is unreliable and Curious Labs is untrustworthy. I don't see a reason to continue buying computer programs that will not work when I decide to move on to another system and can't find Curious Labs for support. Consider this petition signed.

Umm... aren't the arguments exclusionary? If it's already been cracked (and it has) then ti seems to me you can't complain it wills top workign if CL goes out of business. The crack will always be there int hose circumstances.

...If it's already been cracked (and it has) then ti seems to me you can't complain it wills top workign if CL goes out of business. The crack will always be there int hose circumstances. But don't you find it ironic that although this scheme is intended to combat illegal activity it actually encourages this behaviour in the situation you suggest? - Jack

well as an international Poser user I'm still waiting for it to arrive, looks like CL and I will be come close friends as I tend to format my drives at least once a year, now thats assuming I can access there site or indeed the net as my connection is dodgy at the best of times.I have no idea wot a dongle is bit if its something that gets installed in my comp, wot do I have to be a tech just to install a program? I have never opened my comp and arent interested in doing so. Wake up CL the warez kitties will crack P5 like every other app, dont make it hard for us honest people

Hi all,

I agree. This stuff really annoys me. I am a legitimate user, I do not steal , software or hardware. What makes me most angry is that the system assumes that I will try to use the software in an illegal way and makes me jump through hoops to get at my product. Imagine if every piece of software on your computer used this type of copy protection. Re-formatting and re-installing to a clean system would be a nightmare.

The main thing for me with this type of copy protection is that you are not in control of your purchased product. If you change machines or replace your hard drive or simply want to move the software (I have more than one drive in my machine) then you need a new code. What about when new versions come out. I have software that is over five years old. Will CL still give me a new code in five years time for Poser 5? Or will the response be sorry we are not supporting that version anymore, you will need to update to the latest version at a cost of $XXXX.XX? So now I have a paid for product that will not work. This is not what I pay my money for. I pay my money to be able to use the product at my convenience. With this system I wont have that.

Part of what worries me is that since Microsoft XP, everyone seems to be trying to use this sytem. Imagine if other products were like this. What if they did the same with audio CDs for example? You buy your CD and you get to play it in your hi-fi. If you want to play it in other systems you need to get special keys to make it play. So, after you have keys for the portable and the walkman you want to use the CD in your car. Whoa, hold on!, says the CD maker, youll have to give us a really good reason why you need another key, you already have three! Not a pleasant thought methinks.

What really makes me sad is that we, the users, had the power to stop this already. If every Poser 4 owner had refused to purchase the update then CL would have changed it pretty quick. If no-one had updated to XP then MS would have dropped this challenge response system and used something else.

If the system worked then it wouldn't be so bad but it doesn't. It will be cracked (if not already) and then the pirates will be able to use the product at their convenience on any machine while I cant. So I will not be updating my Poser 4 to version 5 whilst it uses this system and I will stick to Win2K as long as I can in the hope that MS can come up with something less annoying and disruptive.

My thoughts on current systems:
Tying the software to my hardware worst (computers are flaky and need re-installing/replacing a lot)
Hardware dongle bad (ties up com ports and can interfere with the correct working of the system plus I have 2 already)
Serial number + registration OK
Serial number only best

Regards

RE: point number 2 Just to let anyone know who wants to register P5 on a computer that isn't connected to the Internet. I went to the Curious Labs site with my Internet-connected Mac and just typed in the series of short words that is the challenge code, instantly got a new series that is the response code, typed that into the PC - and was off and running with Poser 5 :-) When I get my Mac version I'll likely do it the same way, because I prefer not to use direct registration when given the choice. Just takes a couple minutes longer to do it yourself. Hardware dongles are another thing altogether - expensive, easy to lose or damage, and even pass-through ones can interfer with your port usage. And CD-in-the-drive ones are a pain, too.

Looks like I won't be getting Poser 5. Sure I would like to have it but it sounds like it will be too much hassle. I saw an earlier thread that it's already been cracked. Shame! I can sympathize with CL for wanting to protect their software. But still, as an honest consumer I don't want to be stuck for all the reasons cited thus far if CL goes under or some other reason which will affect the ability to reinstall. I've already invested a lot of money in all the accessories, DAZ products, etc. To think that there may be a dead end down the road because of CL's needs just spells wasted money to me. I'm not happy about all of this. I am a registered owner of LW, Strata and Cinema 4D. I'll stick with them. I do register most programs as I do upgrade regularly. This is the first time I've gone this sour on a product. I'm sure there are a lot of folks who will buy it and CL will make out alright but my money is hard earned and more important to me. If CL comes up with something more acceptable to the Poser community, I'll purchase it in a heartbeat. As for now, put me down as
NO NO NO N-O to the current protection efforts.

I'm not even going to bother buying Poser5, it's not that much advanced from 4, and not worth the hassle.

Dang, Ironbear beat me to it: It's "petition". A "partition" is what you install Windows to... And I was all set to sign the partition- after all, partitions seem to make Windows run smoother. Also, if you do get fired up about an issue, be sure you use the correct word- nothing says "unprofessional" more than the word word. Imagine if you tried to preset Curious Labs with a "partition" that people signed? Would they take you seriously? I think they would take a petition much more seriously (especially one that could threaten sales). --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Dear John, Mistakes happen - I have already started it was a mistake, and if the editing system for this community allowed, I would have changed the mistake by now. I would hate to believe that the strongest arguements for the Copy Protection is to use my simple mistakes to discredit me.. I will again take it that your voice in this petition is that you also agree that the present security system that Curious Labs are using should be removed. If not - why did you post? If anyone else wishes to attack my mistake - please just post me in private, instead of sounding like broken records... sigh Roll on the maturity...

Add my name to the list as well.

I don't like the present system, but will put up with it. It's not enough to keep me from buying the product. I think of inconvinience as part of the "price" of the software. I give $$$ and put up with the security, I get a great new "toy." IMHO, it's a good exchange. Hardware dongle: WOULD be enough to keep me from buying the product. If I was desk-bound it might not be, but I travel and work on a laptop. CD "Dongle:" not a bad idea, but easy to crack. I have 4 "virtual CD's" on my hard drive at the moment.

Serial Number - YES
All others - NO
What do they plan to do about virtual drives? I boot MS Windows from a virtual C drive.

Didn't you know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's why eyedrops and rose-colored glasses are needed.

I agree with this. Consider me signed I wrote a longer post but it didn't go through

But Casamerica's registration went so smoothly! Ah, nevermind, I'm signing anyway. And praying DAZ doesn't pull the same boner when it releases its program.

Or just wait till a crack comes out and use it. I did that with Windows XP after I had 6 reinstallations in ONE WEEK. I finally got ticked off with dealing with MS, and downloaded a crack for it that disabled the registration part of it. It took me making a Clone CD image, running ISO Buster, and then installing the crack into the extracted files. Three burned coasters later I had a working but cracked version of Win XP. I think that this kind of security system is very invasive and disruptive. If linux could ever get out of its diapers before the year 3000 arrives, I'd make the switch. Hell, I've thought about putting Mac OS X on my machine(it IS possible). If this security system/activation system is not removed or altered, I will use Poser 5, but I won't BUY it. If I do buy it, I will search for a crack. When I buy something IT IS MINE. Not the company's anymore. I paid the cash for it, I own it. Car makers don't make you submit an activation form when you buy a car, and Grand Theft Auto is a far more lucritive business than software priacy. So until this is changed, Keep your product CL. Blade

Consider me signed up.

I use Poser on two machines. In order to be legitimate... and transport my Runtime library, I keep it on a REMOVABLE hard drive. I switch the removable hard drive between my work PC and my home PC everyday.

There is NO WAY to do this with Poser 5 because of the idiotic "protection", which I read in a previous post has already been hacked. I own Photoshop and Adobe Pagemager, which are on the SAME drive and which BOTH cost more than Poser 5. Yet, NEITHER of them have a ridiculous "protection" scheme.

Come on Curious Labs, I have supported Poser since Poser 1. I've been through THREE owners so far. And now you want me to put up with this CRAP?! I respect your talent and obvious intelligence... but for good old fashioned "smarts".... you are SADLY lacking. All you've really done (apparently from the post showing a cracked version on Kazaa) is annoy the hell out of (formerly?) loyal customers like me who are your bread and butter!

It's time to wake up, smell the coffee and get your collective asses in gear and fix this MISTAKE! Sure... you've invested money in the copy protection scheme and hate to throw it out. Guess what... SUCK IT UP. It's not worth alienating your loyal customers. Why?! Because it's 500% harder to get a NEW customer, than it is to keep an existing customer.... and that's straight from Sales 101. Existing customers are low maintenace comparatively speaking... but you slap us in the face... or in this case, kick us in the balls, and guess what... we're not going to be your customers anymore.

You strategy might have worked in the days of the Commodore 64, when people of like mind couldn't easily band together. But this forum is a forum of like minded INDIVIDUALS. And what's more... we're artists.... who tend to be not only opiniated and very quick to defend our personal freedoms (or what we perceive as our freedoms), but very stubborn in our opinions and steadfast in our defense of our freedoms since there is always from critique and authority figure trying to wrestle them from us.

And while we might expect this type of invasion scheme from some mega-giant like Microsoft, aloof in their ivory towers, - cut off from its users...

We weren't expecting this from our FRIENDS at Curious Labs. Friends we have supported, talked to and worked with for years. It feels as if we have been betrayed.

So I'll part with a quote from Shakespeare's Julius Caeser, oh betrayer of our trust.

"Et tu, Brute!"

Hi, these are valid and reasonable arguments. Due to over 8 years of experience (working as techie in software-support!), I personally object to dongles and such activation schemes! Its actually too much trouble for users/customers and support, esp after a year and/or the release of a new version! Its imho not too reliable, only very inconvenient and I know of several manufacturers who finally discontinued to use such annoying protection-schemes after according negative experiences/feedback and who still are in business with much more content users. I would recommend to urgently reconsider this unlock-procedure and instead provide a one-time registration with a permanent serial/key! Hubert

"All that we see or fear, is but a Sphere inside a Sphere."     (E. A. Pryce -- Tuesday afternoon, 1845)

I sign too! Thought this whole discussion was over with the non-protected ProPack updates. Thought CL knew what we users think about it. Thought wrong... Sascha

The current scheme is unpalatable. As no Mac version exists (yet), this is not an issue for me (yet), but I agree wholehartedly with the spirit and the points of this petition. It will definitely bear on my decision to upgrade or not when (if?) the situation presents itself. I have thus far only bought one software which used a harware dongle (Nissu Writer), and that protection system was eventually dropped. I have refused to buy a software which used a very similar scheme to that apparently used by CL (it was a font conversion software). I have another software which uses the same kind of "protection", but only because I felt it important to support that software. It was not in earler versions of that software, only in the last update I purchased. It is also becoming irrelevant as it is (most likely) not going to make the transition to MacOS X (other than under classic)... I do register the software I buy, for my personal use and from my personal money, or have bought for for my workaday use and from my employer's money. I therefore sign this petition. Only SN protection, please. Hubert Holin Hubert.Holin@Bigfoot.com

Well I understand about authorization codes and dongle, I have owned 3-D studio max r1 up to r4. Now let's talk about something that had happened to me. Basically I have replaced by hardware many times, with 3-D studio max r3, once you receive a authorization code the software views, the hardware lock for protection to the software. However at one point the hardware dongle had gone bad which let me without max. Had to contact the company for a replacement. However that was lots of wasted time trying to get a replacement. CL is using the same as 3-D studio max r4 for protection to their software, what a joke. And let's talk about computer crashes, I had a major meltdown of my graphics machine, had to replace some hardware, which required me to reinstall and call up the authorization for max in order to get a new authorization code. What a pain. The treat you like you have a stolen copy. Which also required me to re-authorize all my plug-in's for max, what a major pain. Was max cracked. 3-D studio max r4, the same as CL which was cracked. An aversion for 3-D studio r3 was also cracked. I purchase all my software I use, Adobe 6 to 7, all versions of 3-D studio max from r.1 to r.4, poser 4 to 5. However I believe that CL is making a very big mistake, are they at the same level as 3-D studio max, I do not believe they are. Besides as many problems with their software they have just added one more. I wish I would've known about this authorization before I purchased poser 5, because I would not have purchased it at all. Actually I believe poser 4 is the application I will be using the most. However, I do believe they have shot themselves in the foot. I will not be buying anymore products from CL in the future. And I will be looking for a cracked to their poser 5, software to get around this registration problem. Because of all problems that I have had using max I do not need more. Contacting to get authorization for all my products that I own. fdw

I recently bought a newer faster computer.

One of the first things I loaded on my new 'puter was P4.

I loaded it from CD.

When it asked me for my S/N, I just hauled out my manual which has the "magic number" pasted inside the back flap, entered the number and I was off and running.

No dongle, no internet, no authorization, no problem.

I have already bought, and am using P5.

Also, I have already "signed" this petetion ...

• but -

Next time I get a newer computer, well ...

Looks like I'll have to stay with P4. It's mine - without any "strings."

I don't think I'll buy P6.

P5 looks great but to be perfectly honest, when I do a female model, most of the time, I revert back to li'l Posette. With all her MTs she does a pretty good job for me.

Have we gone too far, gotten too complex?
(rhetorical)

cheers,
dr geep
;=]

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

petetion = petition ;=] (need 'nuther cup o' joe! ;=] )

Remember ... "With Poser, all things are possible, and poseable!"

cheers,

dr geep ... :o]

edited 10/5/2019

I think you're looking for the term "Petition". BEsides, if'n you don;t like CL's activation, then don;t use Poser 5 :/ /P

No hardware dongle. No. Dongles don't work either... people crack them. And as a techie, for my workstation clinets, I've spent way too many billable hours trying to troubleshoot system problems that direclty trace to: A) The dongle won't accept their legit installation and serial # and let the program boot, B) the dongle is screwing up the serial or parallel port and not letting periperals work, or C) the dongle is interfering iwth peripherals such as mice and trackballs or graphics tablets not even attached to that port. All usb dongles do is move the problem to a usb port, and with the proliferation of usb devices, that's not a good thing. Phone calls to Autodesk and/or Discreet seldom turn up a good solution. I'm not going to sign. My vote is simple: Customer buys software. Customer inputs serial # from software they paid for. Customer is off and running. CuriousLAbs accepts that software piracy is a fact of doing business and deals with it.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Incidentally, I have yet to recieve my copy of P5 (us academic slobs gotta wait 'til Oct.), but the activation scheme doesn't really bother me... They don't suck out personal info from the drive, they don't attach spyware to it, and they don't have some devious plan for world domination. If Curious Labs does go out of business, there are enough folks using P5 that a business would be stupid not to snap it up; if that doesn't happen, then the code is officially dead and a crack likely would be warranted at that time, if CL hasn't already made a patch to crack it already on its way out. Otherwise, I'm not too awful worried about it. /P

If I had not already been a Poser user the present EULA/Security/registration procedures would have kept me from buying the software. I still use Raydream 5.0.2. I followed that software from Raydream, Fractal to Metacreations. Now the company no longer exists and Raydream is unsupported so I can no longer install it fully on my latest computer. I hope Curious Labs lasts forever but I absolutely HATE that their attitude seems to be if we die to heck with you. If they go out of business I will only be able to use the software I've paid good money for until my first hard drive glitch or upgrade. This is unacceptable to me.

I debated on sticking my name in but I'm going to simply because I've yet to see any "Plan B" should the company fold.

I don't anticipate having any problems with registration as long as CL doesn't sell my email address to a spammer (I report spammers), or require information I'm not comfortable giving out (such as SSN). I don't anticipate having to re-install but if I do have hardware problems I will insist on being treated like a paying customer and not a suspicious thief.

Just the idea that a program I put out money for, could cease to work in the future is enough to upset my stomach.

...... Kendra

...No hardware dongle. No... ...I'm not going to sign... Perhaps I misunderstood but I thought this was a petition "...against the present security system that Poser 5 uses.", not one for a dongle alternative. If so my signature stands. But if it is actually a request for a dongle system I withdraw it. - Jack

...If they go out of business I will only be able to use the software I've paid good money for until my first hard drive glitch or upgrade. ...I debated on sticking my name in but I'm going to simply because I've yet to see any "Plan B" should the company fold. In the interest of fairness CL has publicly stated that in the event of their untimely demise a software solution will be made available so that P5 owners may continue to use the program. I'm not sure how legally binding such a public promise would be but I have no reason to doubt this intent. On the other hand, I'm not sure how one could force a no longer existing company to keep their word. Nor am I sure that the financial resources would remain to create and distribute such a patch. I guess it's still a crap shoot. - Jack

"CUSTOMER accepts that software piracy is a fact of doing business and deals with it." I am dealing with it... by not buying. Instead of hurting me financially this decision actually helps. But on the other side... - Jack

It's not our cost of doing bidness, Doc. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Sign me up!

i agree. serial number is enough.

I'm In as well.

This petition is NOT a request for a Hardware Dongle - please read my second post. This Petition is against their present activation security system - and a request for Curious Labs to start dialogue with the poser community to find out which type of security system we are more willing to adopt. We do NOT want a intrusive security system imposed on us, like the present one has been. As we can see already there are a number of people against the Hardware Dongle, which could be as problematic as the Activation System in its present form. However, my personal main concern is the usability of Poser 5 after bankruptcy. With the present EULA and Activation System IF Curious Labs folds (which has been the history with companies and Poser) End-Users of Poser 5 have no guarantee that they will be able to continue using their product. Including all the other issues that have been raised, I can not see how anyone can believe the present security system as it stands benefits themselves or the community? While I will not be buying Poser 5 because of these and other reasons, many of us voicing our opinion here are not doing so for just ourselves, we are doing so for the community and those in the community who have no voices on the internet (those who dont have internet, or access to it). So please before you flame, disagree with this Petition, remember you are not the only person in the universe, and remember that this Internet Community are NOT the only people who use Poser. WiNC

[[Part of what worries me is that since Microsoft XP, everyone seems to be trying to use this sytem. Imagine if other products were like this.]] REMEMBER, Microsoft's GOAL is to eventually have ALL windows software on a pay-by-the-month system which REQUIRES you to connect to M$ for 'authorization' EVERY time you boot up (and if you do not pay them, they can CUT OFF your access to all your own files by remotely disallowing use of their operating system). *** I have had endless trouble with dongles, including one software item I used a lot but the company dropped support for that version and then the dongle went bad and their attitude was "tough shit. Well, now you have the opportunity to upgrade to our newer product" I didn't want their damn newer, MUCH more expensive version which had in fact DROPPED several functions from the earlier version which I used a lot. THere are too many issues with this whole system. I'd need far more room and time than there is here to go into my whole feelings on it. I have stated many of them elsewhere. I hereby SIGN!

Are we wasting our time talking, about this problem with CL, or will we as customers be forced to accept their requirements. Is there anyone from CL, listening to this group of people or users that support their products, I do not believe so. Actually, I believe all we are doing is just venting our frustration here, and wasting our time. I also believe that this place could possibly disappear, as well with the decisions that CL makes.

You're not wasting your time talking. I'm sure someone from CL is reading. Whether someone from CL will reply is a whole 'nother story. ;) I sign.

...Are we wasting our time talking, about this problem... I also think we are not wasting our time. As unpleasant a task as it must surely be CL is very likely monitoring these threads. If there is sufficient indication of dissatisfaction there is a slight chance they may modify their stance. If there is no indication there is no chance. - Jack

Please add my name to the list as well. Thank you. Warm Regards, Nancy Deer With Horns (SophiaDeer)

Nancy Deer With Horns
Deer With Horns Native American Indian Site

Had I known about the CP scheme for P5 I wouldn't have upgraded. Tying software to hardware which I may want to change at anytime (drives get bigger and cheaper all the time) is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. I have a program which uses a very small USB dongle which I plug into the port on my keyword when I need to. The company, for a small additional sum, allowed me to purchase a backup dongle. So I can change computer hardware whenever I wish (good) and I am protected from a single dongle failure (good) but both fail and company is out of business (very bad). Now if there was a way to deal with companies that go out of business (a central repository tools to bypass the CP schemes?) then things wouldn't be too bad. However I don't like CP and I can't imagine I ever will. And as several others have pointed out a new CP scheme attracts crackers like flies to honey. I hope that if CL goes under there is a crack out there somewhere. Regards, Frederick C. Wilt

I agree with you all, except, I think that what we are signing is a PETITION, not a partition. :-)

Here's my signature, too. I won't buy P5 while it has the current activation scheme. But to be honest, I wouldn't have bought it anyway until a year from now -- I like to stay a little behind the curve (you can always tell who are the pioneers: they're the ones with arrows in their backs :)

Signed. However, I do believe that the "I don't care crowd" is always going to be more prevalent than those that do. Since most people will agree with anything - as is evident in a number of threads here - the odds are that the "vocal minority" (as we have been called) will be forced to accept this type of behavior until all of the "personal" aspects are removed from personal computers.

I also wrote a longer post last night, but it's been dropped from here. I have a registered copy of P4 and would like to buy P5, but will not do so while this activation scheme (or any "improved" version of it) is tacked onto it. Curious Labs - go back to standard registration or NO SALE!

I can't use it. It's to elaborate. I have to reinstall to often to use this softwear. About 9x this yr. due to storage upgrades and hardwear conflicts. The year before was similar.

I just felt I should add my voice to this petition to let other companies know I'm not buying softwear like this. I'll just use Poser4 for what ever life it has left then find something different in 3D softwear else quit altogether till some later day. I see a light at the end of the tunnel eventually but alot of companies seem to be getting into alot of oppressive stuff at the moment.

"But don't you find it ironic that although this scheme is intended to combat illegal activity it actually encourages this behaviour in the situation you suggest?"

Ironic? Not really - I find it to be the only answer to what I consider to be a question that is too hypothetical for me to worry about. I also find it a hypocrisy to say in the same post "it's already been cracked!" and "what if you go out of business".  It seems obvious to me that the answer will be to use the crack.

I don't see it as encouraging anything at all, but let's assume it does. The purpose of protection is to reduce the revenue lost to piracy. That's it. The only purpose. Even a system that might encourage piracy in some sectors is a success if overall the reduction results in increased sales.

Enough companies use this type of system to indicate that there is such a benefit -a dn that it is worth the effort.

"There is NO WAY to do this with Poser 5 because of the idiotic "protection", which I read in a previous post has already been hacked. I own Photoshop and Adobe Pagemager, which are on the SAME drive and which BOTH cost more than Poser 5. Yet, NEITHER of them have a ridiculous "protection" scheme."

I am not sure about this - is the response code stored in the Poser directory or in the registry? If it is in the registry then you won't have any problem at all with Poser in a  removable drive.

if there WAS a problem, simply store Poser on the hard drive of each machine and keep the Runtimes ont he removable... P5 allows this to happen easily and that would also solve your problem.

CL has already specifically stated multiple codes are acceptable for this use.

"However, I do believe that the "I don't care crowd" is always going to be more prevalent than those that do. Since most people will agree with anything - as is evident in a number of threads here - the odds are that the "vocal minority" (as we have been called) will be forced to accept this type of behavior until all of the "personal" aspects are removed from personal computers."

I won't agree "with anything", in fact I am vocal in opposition to the things that matter to me... and in this case it comes down to a simple question:

Will Poser5 make me more money then it costs me?

The answer is yes. Poser5 has already created more value for my company than it's purchase price. If CL goes dead tomorrow and Poser5 never fires up again... it's still been a net win for me.

To me, that means it was worth it.

I mean really... if we were talking about XP, where an entire computers' worth of data were held hostage, then I'd revolt. However, nothing is being held hostage here... nothing. Curious Labs will have my name and purchase info upon registration, and if I call 'em up asking for a re-activation, they know full well that trying to make life hard on me doing so would result in my coming here to complain about it, resulting in bad PR all around. CL certainly doesn't want that happening. Now, if the company goes under, then registration will be the least of your worries (not to mention that CL has already pledged to have an official 'crack' sitting and ready to distribute to all paying customers in case of emergency, so seriously - what's the whining all about?) will Poser 5 make me more money than its purchase price? I dunno... I do know that I have gotten enough enjoyment out of P4 and PPP that it was worth far more to me than I paid for it, by some rather large factors. I suspect that P5 will be the same. (AAMOF, the only other bits of software that has had a better ROI in terms of time spent enjoying it were Quake 1, 2 and 3.) I guess I'm just saying that there's more to this than money. /P

...Ironic? Not really - I find it to be the only answer to what I consider... ...I don't see it as encouraging anything at all, but let's assume it does. ... What you say is painfully, reduntantly obvious- except that I wasn't talking about protection, its effectiveness or purpose. The fact is that copy protection is intended to reduce or eliminate an illegal activity. In the hypothetical event that CL goes bankrupt legitimate users will need to crack P5 in order to continue using if they follow your suggestion. Regardless of necessity this would also be an illegal activity. In other words, it would be the direct result of a scheme intended to produce the opposite effect. That is ironic. In fact, it is hilarious. ...I also find it a hypocrisy to say in the same post "it's already been cracked!" and "what if you go out of business". While these words may have appeared within my post I did not say them. They formed a direct quotation of your words. Next time you accuse me of hypocrisy I would appreciate it if you first attempt to get your facts straight. - Jack

1. Not all of us are making money from Poser - we use it as a hobby. Unlike your business use, if Poser 5 stopped working tomorrow for some they would lose a sizeable amount of money depending on their income, and were they are located in the world. 2) Unlike Microsoft, Curious Labs' Steve Cooper has alread admitted their company is/has suffering money problems. 3) Unlike Microsoft, Curious Labs hasn't got the other project/software base to support a protection scheme simular to what WindowsXP and OfficeXP use and any lack of sales because of it. Unlike Discreet 3dMax, Poser 5 is not an industry standard therefore doesn't have the community and user base like 3dMax 4x and 5x has to support its growth. Therefore, please - bar the activtion system, Curious Labs and Discreet and Microsoft have very little in common and can not logically be used in an arguement for defense of Cusious Labs. We might protest against Discreet and Microsoft, but in the schemes of things - hobbiests are small fry to them. While to Curious Labs, we are their bread and butter... 3) To some people a hobby is sometimes a very important aspect of their lives. It is rude to just flush their feelings and hobby away with a statement of unimportance. Just because it isn't valuable data, does not make the program any less important. 4) If Curious Labs goes down, registration WILL be the most important worry. Since if you have Poser 5, you will not be able to activate your copy should your format C drive 5) A Pleadge from Curious Labs on THIS forum is NOT a legal binding statement in the EULA which will product users of this software if Curious Labs folds. Please read up on some form of Company law so that you know where you stand, I have - and unless it is a part of the licensing agreement, nothing that Curious Labs says on this Forum has any legal context in the real world.

I too will "sign" this petition. This "activiation scheme" (as with Microsoft's) only prevents "Don" from installing a second copy of Poser on his graphic-artist wife "Judy"'s laptop. Will they have to buy 2 copies or will CL allow the second installation? (Two computers, 2 copies of Poser, possibly running at the same time.) On the other hand, there's "Mike", who has heard of Poser 5, but never used it. He goes looking for it on xx (that "p2p" program) and finds a cracked version. And, in less than an hour, he's got the full version of the program installed... and without an "activation scheme". His friend, "Vicky" has also heard about Poser and asks Mike if he has a copy. No problem- he copies it to a CD and she installs it... again, without the "activation scheme". Question: Who is this "protection" protecting against? Answer: Not the "hardcore" (or even "casual") "warez user", but the honest person who actually buys the program. Sure the "warez user" has an illegal copy, but he's more free than the "honest user" when it comes to installing the program on his laptop, another PC, or even doing a full re-install. --John

VanishingPoint... Advanced 3D Modeling Solutions

Hmmm. Maybe I'll just upgrade to the Pro Pack and skip version 5. I've already installed P4 5 or 6 times due to hardware and OS upgrades. Count me in. Mitch

[[ I mean really... if we were talking about XP, where an entire computers' worth of data were held hostage, then I'd revolt. However, nothing is being held hostage here...]] Only that, BIT BY BIT, as this type of method is implemented here, and there, and there, and there... - the public is 'conditioned' to be 'used to it' so that when the XP next version with its "pay-by-the-month", and "MUST connect via net to get authorization EVERY time you boot" (or you are cut off from all of what you THOUGHT was your own data) system is implemented, the 'public' will aleady be used to these abusive schemes and will think they are normal. If you don't object to each small chip, and ignore it's happening, DON'T start acting "surprised" when the chipping has eaten all the way thru the trunk and the tree falls down!

Sweet and short...please include me in this petition. I already have two of this security system thingy...the third one would drive crazy. Bill

sigh In a way, I am glad I would have to buy a new machine to use P5. It makes it eaier to not want it! I want XP, I want P5. But, I want to know whats mine is mine. So, no XP, no P5. Somewhere along the line, the idea of ownership got skewed. Let me clarify; if I buy somthing its MINE. To use, resell, abuse, burn, ignore, reload or whatever. Any other notion of ownership is absurd. P5's system amounts to a limited lease on the software. I will gladly register my software, I will not rent software. I will not let anyone use my resourses, or tell me how or when I can do anything with my belongings. Adobe has dozens of programs out, makes tons of money, and seems to be quite happy with a reg number. They must lose millions to thieves. They spend their money on software, not security. Good plan. CL released a beta (by the looks of the bug reports) at a price that would make Adobe blush. And then tells me what I am going to do with what is mine? BAH! They spent money on USELESS security (the warez monkeys broke XP before it was offically released, for god's sake!!) and forgot the software. Opps. smiles I will keep plugging away in P4, and be happy I don't have to wonder who is watching me do everything.

Sign me.

I'll sign. I gave my reasons in other threads before. Though a Mac version isn't out yet, I am already thinking over the pros and cons of upgrading. This security is a major con even after the bugs are fixed. I'm a pro pack user and as many a poser fan will tell you, I have spent many times over the initial cost of software in extras. If CL is in a financial bind, why not add a team to start a support products division. This would be much more accepted and supported than a security system By the way, I live in NY and don't lock the car or the house. I don't even know where the house key is.

i will not buy poser 5 in it`s present condition

Same here, I refuse to buy software that has a dongle or has a security and registration package like CL is using on P5. This is the very reason that I did not move from W2k to XP. This is an unfortunant situation for CL, I understand that they fear losing money, however, they have lost my business and they have lost it for as long as they insist on this security package. The warez folks have very likely, already popped the code for P5. And yes, I am a licensed owner of P4. Mercate

jval - "...I also find it a hypocrisy to say in the same post "it's already been cracked!" and "what if you go out of business".

While these words may have appeared within my post I did not say them. They formed a direct quotation of your words. Next time you accuse me of hypocrisy I would appreciate it if you first attempt to get your facts straight."

Actually my comment referred directly to the points raised in the "petition" itself. YOU were not accused.

jval - "The fact is that copy protection is intended to reduce or eliminate an illegal activity."

Well, to be technically correct the protection is intended to increase sales. Something it could do even if it was not effective. But yes, ON THE WHOLE it is supposed to reduce piracy...a nd it loosk liek it is.

WiNC - "3) To some people a hobby is sometimes a very important aspect of their lives. It is rude to just flush their feelings and hobby away with a statement of unimportance. Just because it isn't valuable data, does not make the program any less important."

Of course hobbies are important, and users should weigh the risks.

JHoagland - "(Two computers, 2 copies of Poser, possibly running at the same time.)"

That would be a violation of the EULA (running at the same time) and a valid thing for CL to prevent if it chooses.

I'm signing just because I don't particularly WANT to have to re-do my registration. So there...how's that?

soulhuntre, ...Actually my comment referred directly to the points raised in the "petition" itself. YOU were not accused. Fine. As your posting segregated various individuals' comments and your accusation was confined to the area of my words it was easy to arrive at my interpretation. As others may easily arrive there also I could not let it pass. Perhaps you could take greater care with your juxtapositions. ...Well, to be technically correct the protection is intended to increase sales. In the pursuit of even greater technicality that would be a "proximate" effect of an immediate cause rather than a "direct" effect. You may as well say that copy protection's purpose is to let Kupa buy a new car or increase corporate equity or put more money in the government's coffers via increased sales taxes or... All true to a degree. But this chain of reasoning is without limit and therefore pointless. I prefer the direct approach. I also tire of pointless weasel words so will say no more on this subject. ...But yes, ON THE WHOLE it is supposed to reduce piracy...a nd it loosk liek it is. Considering that Poser 5 has only been available for a few days I applaud your courage in leaping to such a conclusion. I'd like to believe this was true. But whenever I try I remember that my parents lied to me about Santa Claus and the dentist promised I wouldn't feel a thing. - Jack

"But whenever I try I remember that my parents lied to me about Santa Claus..." You mean your parents told you Santa didn't exist? Wow!

Is this a "partition" or a "petition"? Two entirely different words with two entirely different meanings. If it is a petition; I have to agree with it as I usually reformat my harddrives several times yearly which means the software will last me one year. This means no disrespect to anyone at CL it merely means I disagree with their present locks. I would be quite satisfied with registering the software everytime I install, but make it always as the first three attempts. I do not want to have to call anyone regarding anything. I'm deaf. I sign

...You mean your parents told you Santa didn't exist? Wow! Not quite. It was some time ago but as I recall my father said SC was a jolly old fat guy in a red suit. My mother insisted SC was a non-caucasian independent female of a non-christian denomination. I'm still very, very confused but my analyst just bought a new house. But she refuses to discuss Santa Claus with me. I think she and her husband have issues about the Easter Bunny. - Jack

I feel that the current security is a real problem! I bought the damn software and should be able to reinstall it as many times as is neccessary to always have it available for use! consider my names signed!

Quit whining about the "partition...petition" thing !!!!!

I can see registering online as an option, but it shouldn't be make/break an installation (especially for reinstalls!). If they plan on keeping this security, I'll just have to keep my installation copy of Poser 4 handy.

Well I for one was going to purchase Poser 5 From Curious Labs but upon reading the info on the security system I have decided not to i have purchased too many programs and found out that the Company has gone belly up (I.E.Dungeon Keeper) and have been stuck with a worthless program that i spent a large amount of money getting. With the Very High price for Poser 5 I would have bought it but now it isnt worth it I only use it for a hobby as i beleve 90% of the poser user base does and with the program priced for Company's to use (for whom the price is minor) that leaves us in the Pot hole that is a BIG hit for us users and a small one for companys but I run on what I mean is that if they go belly up i cant afford to invest that kind of mony to then have a worthless program. CL if you want to make a massive Finantial Leap then find a way to release this programs in stores and priced for home Everyone will have it! I sign the petition!

For what it's worth I also sign this petition.

Was max cracked. 3-D studio max r4, the same as CL which was cracked. An aversion for 3-D studio r3 was also cracked. What I was trying to point out with this statement that max 4, has been cracked and poser 4 has also been cracked. And I have also noticed max 5.0 has also been cracked, by the Chinese. Its just a matter of time until poser 5, will be cracked as well. As far as I know it has not been at this time. Now remember, I purchased all the programs I use. And I did by a copy of poser 5, which I found it is a big mistake. Crash, crash, crash, crash. Technical support what a joke, I received more information from here than from CL, which was very helpful. However I still have crash, crash, crash, crash, crash. And I have just switch from, Pose, to Comtent, lockup, and crash. Basically my computer is a dual Pentium III 1.00 GB, with 3 GB of memory as well and a Elsa GLoria III. You would think with these resources it would be stable. Maybe too much for it. And I do support this petition.

Add my name onto this petition as well. I purchased P4 from Curious Labs, and was originally very interested in P5, but instantly knew I wouldn't purchase P5 (or use it ... I don't steal software) once I became aware of the "activation" system it uses. This objection is primarily out of concern that the company will eventually not be around anymore (all too common an occurrence in this industry) and my software will thereafter become useless, but also it is because of the annoyance factor ... this is why I don't plan to upgrade to XP either. The very idea of having a limited number of installs on OSes that practically require periodic reinstallation of the entire OS to run properly, even without consider computer hardware upgrades ... well, it seems to me that adding such a scheme to software is much like intentionally building in a time-triggered virus. Also, I have never purchased and never intend to purchase any software that requires a dongle either (I'd have to disconnect other hardware in order to attach it). Nor will I touch software schemes that write strange stuff into corners of your hard drive like Pace ... that's just asking for system trouble, as most anyone with a Pace-infected system can tell you. Serial numbers are just fine by me, though, if CL must have some sort of security device. But they won't see any more of my business with the current security scheme, nor with the hinted-at dongle idea. Too bad for both CL and me, I guess. I'll get by well enough without upgrading Poser ... but will they? As has been said before, the dumbest element of this whole deal is that hackers will undoubtedly find ways around any security device, so those slimeballs who really are stealing Poser won't be hindered much or at all by this security scheme. Instead, it is only legitimate current and/or potential customers whom CL will end up having punished and pushed away. David Sandberg

Ohhhhhhh! Boy I have a dozzy here. Ahem how do I start this off. Mad at Curious labs is an understatement. Let's just say it totally trashed my computer system or my copy of IE 6. I just rebuilt from a bad motherboard and after two weeks to get it up and running again I installed poser 5 excitedly hoping to check out this new great program. This is my experience. One I had to enter my code to get it activated, which of course transported me to the poser 5 web site. I then had to enter my previous poser 4 serial no. but instead of getting a your cleared......yes you have an original poser verified installation enjoy your new program I got a....their is a problem with the verification please contact tech support. I then went back to the program to check it out and found it 20 times slower than poser 4 at rendering and did not like the interface at all. The file garbage has to go! I finally gave up and went to or tried to go to renderosity only to find out that I can now no longer get into renderosity. I keep getting a Error including template."/home/poser/public_html/gallery.ez". I can go anywhere on the web it seems but not renderosity.... What has Curious labs done to my access to renderosity? I am typing this out on my other machine that thank god doesn't have the latest version of poser on it. I have uninstalled IE 6 back to 5 and reinstalled IE 6 only to find out I still have the same problem. Hmm a total system reinstall after all this work just to get it back up and running.......Grrrrrrrrr. So as a warning to anyone running windows 2000 beware! And to you beta testers.....shame on you I was under the asumption you had this version checked out and yet you none of you ran into any problems of this magnitude! I don't like my system being toy'd with. My system is dual 1 ghz proc's .....1 gig of ram and the latest 3d labs graphics card. It did not come cheap and I don't appreciate curious labs messing with it! To whomever I read about comparing Curious Labs Poser to the programs used creating Final Fantasy........please give me a break. It costs over $300 and it doesn't work ok......! Final Fantasy worked but they went bankrupt right where I see Curious Labs Going. Following the footsteps of Final Fantasy....except Final Fantasy actually worked. And where is the freakin phone no at curious labs......been disconnected? They trash my browser trying to register the darn program and leave me with no way to contact them besides e mail or fax...Which by from what I have been reading from other forums they don't even answer anyway! So I'm back to poser 4 and stickin with DAZ and I just would like to say Meta Creations Great product wish you hadn't went away........! Oh and has anyone noticed that Curious Labs has not done any upgrades with poser since the buyout from Meta Creations and now this trash they call no 5!...............Yeah I'm pissed!

I strongly support this petition. What sense does it make to hassle legal users where warez users can use it un disturbed? To CL: take a look at how (i.e) Maxon handles this: They deliver with a timely limited serial, and a piece of paper. In this you fill in you adress and OS, send it to Maxon and recieve the unlimited serial a few days later via mail.

Sign me up.

Sign me up too!!!