Have been following the Photoshop Gurus contest at photoshopworld.com. I was wondering if there is any such Bryce Gurus contest? If there isnt can we organise one here at Renderosity? To see how Bryce may be stretched to the limits and where the best of the best Brycians world over participate? What Say folks? Agent Smith?

I'm up for such a contest. the prize to me will bein the sharing and learning such a venture could afford us as Brycers.

but the contest is opened only for Gurus or the entry will be free? In the first case who decide who is a Guru? Great idea btw. cheers

Nice idea I support the idea. But what are the rules for being Guru? Am I a Guru?

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How about a quarterly contest. I pulled about ten buildings and 20 people out of my Atlantis entry. I just couldn't wait 2 days for each render to reposition or try different skys, up the haze, etc. Iv'e been pulling back from making anything really big. If I knew I had more than a month I might try something more ambitious.

What about a Bryce slander contest, yet again this week I had to read through a rundown of the best 3D software, only to see bryce restricted to being a Landscape renderer! Arrrgh! The themes could be based on what they say Bryce can't do, then we could show them how wrong they are! It's all about ingenuity and creativity. Not "how big is my software". Oh dear! another rant. oops!.

This is an interesting idea, but there are a lot of questions to sort out about who is a guru and how would a guru contest compare to the monthly challenge. Some people are killer modellers, but when they build a scene, it doesn't look as good as something made by someone with a good eye for composition and that leaves out all the people who really work the textures over. Also, would such a contest allow any postwork or imports from other programs at all? If so, does that mean someone is a Bryce guru or just good with lots of programs? I like the idea of allowing more time to participate in this contest, if we have it. I also like the idea of trying to provide each other with more answers (although I always see plenty of information here). Perhaps we could give a list of suggested information to include about any submission. For example: What version of Bryce, what parts are from elsewhere or were done in postwork, any nifty tricks you used to achieve an effect. A lot of people are good about including this, I often forget, but it is useful information to have. Lin

The photoshop world Guru contest is; -free. -open to anyone. and, what's kind of wierd...if you win...you get a guitar. Guitar? How about a new (bad ass) monitor? Or even plugins This is a good idea, yet somewhat a duplicate of the Monthly Challenge and even the Bryce Hot 20. But what I do like about it, is to have it every two-three months to allow for greater entries. Also, the idea to have say, a journal with each picture to describe how each entry was made.

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I think it's the competition that would prove who is a guru, not that only gurus would be allowed to enter! :) I think it's a good idea. The forum is great for hints and tips, and the monthly challenge is a bit of fun, but, speaking personally, I am lazy and need a kick in the ass to produce anything remotely worthwhile. I'll knock out something for the challenge in 40 minutes, because it's just something to do and I don't care a jot whether I come first or last. The same with the Hot 20, I don't care whether any of my stuff is there or not - it's just interesting to look at. A real competition, though... Hmmm. I like the sound of it. We could see some really good stuff coming out of that... Who would be the judges? The admins? But I don't want a guitar. I wouldn't mind a pair of fake breasts or a rubber chicken, though.

Personally, I think that that one contest a month is fine. And the fact that the name implies a level above the rest isn't a good idea. If you want another contest, why not call it Another Bryce Challenge. As far as what you need need in order to make anything worthwhile, I don't know. It seems to me that the monthly challenge has produced some spectacular images from a large range of people. If your good, or a Guru as it were, most people would recognize it by your work, whether it's a monthly challenge or just plain posting.

I'm not really opposed to the idea, in fact if you want to have a larger challenge with real prizes, I think that you will see a better effort from everyone involved. But not limiting to who may enter, and I think a different name other than Guru. Have it quarterly, throw in some specific rules, a few prizes, and away you go. I actually think that the Monthly Challenge could do the same if there were actual prizes offered. Some say you can never have too many Challenges or Contests, but I think you run the risk of dilution of resources if this gets out-of-hand. Even when it comes to having time to the forum to help people out.

Just my thought, for whatever it's worth. And if you were to ask my wife, she would tell you I think too much sometimes.

Stuie

Aye, a free contest is a free contest! I'm currently duking it out with Masema overwho can produce a more convincing Shadar Logoth, a project that is now taking me months instead of weeks. I considered even bending the rules between us, and exporting actual sections of the city straight from WOTedit and into Bryce, but that's the cheap way out... To push oneself, that's the key... I'm all about sharing, but I probably only post 1 out of every 20 images I make. Perfectionism has kept me from all of the monthly contests, and procrastination! Perhaps just have a quarterly contest? Three months, and AgentSmith and clay can duke it out for the first topic?

Ooooooooooooooooooo......lol. Like an actual fight? Hmmm...can't tell how big he is from his photo's....but than again he lives in Missouri, I live in Los Angeles, long way to go to duke it out. I could sharpen my Bryce CD into an edged weapon, lash it to a stick, use that on'em. AgentSmith

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Hey AgentSmith, As Bryce-users we are all a bit computer nerd (in a positive way). Why don't we act as computernerds and fight over the internet? I had a little virus-war with some friends from school once. It was quite funny. We knew that we could receive a (non-multiplying and non-spreading) virus at any moment in every bit of data that came on our computer. So we where constantly on quard. The most important rule was 'If you hit first you win'. We had to be really sneaky to get the virus on the computer of the opponent but we also had to program the viruses our selves and make sure that they would be non-destructive to other computers. Sadly the war ended without a winner, we just gave up after a while, but it was fun. There where some sneaky tricks used to try and get the viruses on the right computer.

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Uh.........no.

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lol....I know you're just jokin'...right? I do(seudo)pc repair in my spare time, most of the time the only thing I am doing is retrieving/saving files, then completely wiping out and re-installing someone's PC, because they had a virus. And, this always happenes because of one of two things. They opened an e-mail from someone they didn't know or, they manually disabled their Mcafee/Norton from running, because it made their pc run slow... Uh, but please no viruses at Renderosity...please. AgentSmith

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While Clay and Agentsmith fight it out with or without cyber-critters, let me clarify a few things about a Gurus contest (going by Photoshop Gurus contest). - Anybody can participate. It is on winning the particular category or the overall contest that the title of Guru is conferred on the contestant. - There is no entry fee, but only attendees to the Photoshop Convention can participate. Now convention cost is itself $$$. Im all for a free contest. - The Gurus contest is held twice a year. We could do the same for Bryce Gurus contest. - There are quite a few categories for the photoshop contest. We can also have a few categories in the Bryce contest, viz. Best Scenery, 100% Bryce, Best Bryce Illustration and an overall winner. - There has to be a prize. Electric Guitar, rubber chicken, mammary substitute, monitor, cash prize whichever...but it has to be a prize people will aspire towards and bring out the best in them, along with a memento, not to mention shippable to any part of the globe. - The panel of judges will have to be community-recognised people. Susan Kitchen? Conan Hunter? Clay? A few things will have to be sorted out. Under whose aegis will the contest take place? There are quite a few Bryce communities other then Renderosity eg. Brycetech, Bryce Forum etc. Its only when all are included, will this be truly a contest worth its salt. The modalities of course will have to be worked out! Can we form a team of 3-4 individuals who can work out the contest requirements and modalities, with the community chipping in? Agentsmith, Brycetech, Clay are people who come to mind along with Audre and her organisational skills. The last Bryce contest we had in Renderosity was in Nov last year. Time we shook things up? What say folks?

Well, I'm always up for a Pepsi challenge with anyone! Count me in!

A guitar is a really original price, but I don't think I'd use it to often. But if it was a violin or viola from Antonio Stradivarius or Guiseppe Guarneri I'd make the best scene anyone will ever make with Bryce. (even if it needs 3 years to render) :)

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Ray, what about a vintage Fender or Les Paul? They are not in the Stradivari league, but are worth at least a year of rendering. :-) Humorix, would the other Bryce communities accept the rules etc without them participating in the decisions about the contest? How can we ensure that they do participate? I'd recommend an ad hoc forum at Yahoo, except that they are filthy spammers. Any other "neutral" place where there people could talk? A closed or open mailing list? Anybody can host a mailing list somewhere?

-- erlik

Alright...let me make the official inquiries (to a lot of people). There is a ton of stuff to take into consiration. I might even have an idea on where to lay my hands on a prize...I'll try to flesh out what you guys have mentioned here this weekend, get the info to different people, see what they say and think (and see if they can get their hands on a better prize than me!) Hang on (and keep suggesting) AgentSmith

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Realize that contests with prizes usually do NOT allow; *No pre-made models - which means NO models from Poser/Zygote/Daz. Any and all models would have to be made originally and from scratch by each artist. Models could be created in other modeling programs, taken into Poser for assembly and posing and then taken into Bryce, but the artist would have to have files on hand for proof of this. *Textures could not include ones available for download, they would have to be original textures made by the artist within Bryce, a 2D photo-editing program, or photo textures of photos taken by the artist. Materials that come with the actual Bryce program would be allowed. Photo textures laid onto 2D faces would not be allowed. Bryce renders laid onto 2D faces would be allowed. *No models, textures, or renders allowed that had been previously used in the artists gallery, whether here at Renderosity or elsewhere. *Compositing renders together in 2D programs are allowed, but post-work on the finished picture is to kept to a minimum. *Any and all files used in creating the reneders should be kept on hand for submission, if needed. -------------- Like I said...this is the usual, just giving you an idea to how difficult it could be. AgentSmith

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This sounds like a fun one. I suggest 100% Bryce only. No imports of any kind. Afterall, it is a Bryce contest, right? Show the true power of Bryce!

You can't call it work if you love it... Zen Tambour

 

I'm up for it! Thanks for looking into this idea AgentSmith :)

bikermouse needs a new left handed guitar. Doubt I could win but it sounds like fun . . .

Left-handed guitar, hmmmmm...how about software for left handers? (oh, and right handers, too) ;oFeedback is enthusiastic...looks like this contest could become real....

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I agree with Spike on the subject of imports. At what percentage does an image remain Bryce?, 80%, 50%, 10%? There is large scope for making models in Bryce, it just calls for a bit of hard work and ingenuity. I am against postwork as well! unless we call this the Mixed Medium Guru contest. Either it is Bryce or it is not! If other artists are like me? ,there will be tools and buttons in Bryce that have yet to be explored for their full potential, the features in Bryce are many and various and in some cases hidden!. Time to reveal them to the world. I do a lot of abstract stuff in Bryce and wonder if there should be a few categories so as to spread the field? Sci-fi, Landscape etc. A good prize would be for Corel to create a Spline tool for everyone to download, with an Extrude tool for second prize. Any ideas for a third? Cheers.

It would be great if a bit of compositing postwork would be alowed. When you make very complex scenes the hardware decides what's the limit of your scene. If a scene gets too complicated it just won't load on some machines. I've seen the problem on my own system. I had to buy more RAM and a bigger harddisk before Bryce loaded the scene again. With the old hardware the system just chrashed. Hardware limimits would not really fit the idea of a Guru contest. Guru's work on the edge of their software, not their hardware. (or at least that's my vision on the title of Guru)

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Guru - it means you'll never say you're out of memory. :-) Ray, I don't think that every Guru has the latest processor and zillions of megs of memory and hard disk. Yes, they have to have a reasonable configuration, but still ...

-- erlik

Erlik: That's exactly what I mean. The Guru's use tricks to work around the limits of their hardware and/or software. That's what makes them stand out above the rest. And one of those tricks for bryce is rendering only parts of the scene at a time and compositing the complete image/animation in another (often 2D) app. It can save days of rendertime and it can allow for making much more detailed and complex scenes wich would normally be impossible due to things like lack of memory. That's why I think there must be some compositing postwork allowed.

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I don't have zillions of megs of RAM and I always have less money to spend on hardware and software than I wish for. But hey, who hasn't got this problems? ;)

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I consider compositing (using bryce mask render) as something necessary for complex scenes, it got to be allowed. Anyway A real bryce challenge should be 100% bryce, compositing allowed, That's the way I work for every Bryce contest. Then.. when does the Bryce Guru challenge will start... and who's gonna decide of the topic? Another question.. Bryce 5 has metaballs, soft shadows, tree lab... Bryce 4 doesn't.. It should be taken in consideration for the votes. Cheers Pidjy

Yup, LOTS of things to work out...give us a little time here to iron things out. We'll see if the higher-ups can come up with a great topic. I think outside ideas for a topic(s) might be better this time out. As far as when it starts, have no idea, this thing is still growing its legs. If it is to be as big as you guys want it, this is going to take some planning. One of the big things is the prizes. Aquire the prizes...and they will come. Right now other mod's and admin's are giving me advice right and left, gotta work it all out. Bryce 4 vs. Bryce 5? Watch...some person with Bryce 3 will come outta nowhere and kick everybody's butt. I realize 5 has abilities 4 doesn't, but which way to go? I mean if it is made that only Bryce 5 people can play, that's unfair. The same goes if only Bryce 4 people could enter. So, fair or unfair...any version of Bryce will have to be allowed. I remember the "Win Bryce 5" contest. Even though people who already had Bryce 5 were allowed to enter...(grumble, lol), the one who won, used Bryce 4, and they didn't win because of soft shadows, or metaballs. Compositing. That will have to be hashed out, not sure how much of what kind will be allowed. There may have to be catagories, in fact it's almost completely neccesary with all the different types of artists out there. Superior hardware will never talent. Yes, more ram means bigger scenes. Faster cpu means faster render. But that's it. I can say, (with no offense) "Get over it, and learn your Bryce". I'm personally not the best example, but...all but the first 5 pics in my gallery were made in Bryce 4 on a Pentium 1, 200mhz cpu, 32mb of ram, and a 1mb video card, I kid you not. Now, I'm not the most "artistic" brycer, I'm more technical, but Bryce can still do GREAT things with little power. But, it does take plannning and knowing your Bryce. Understand you don't HAVE to have The highest res terrains and textures on EVERY object in your scene, it really helps. I want, what I'm sure you want; a fun kick-butt contest with prizes, lol. But, this is also a great opportunity to get desperate and learn things about your Bryce (and yourself)you never knew you could do. Any good Bryce abilities I've aquired was directly because of this Forums Monthly challenge. It created a deadline that I had to meet with only what I had, which was a lame pc and the result HAD to be pure bryce with no post-work. It can be done. AgentSmith

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Just a thought...how about calling the prize a Debbie? There is an Oscar, an Emmy, a Grammy, a Tony...etc. It would be a nice way to keep alive the memory of one who championed the cause of Bryce so effectively. What say folks?

Another thought! What will the Debbie (trophy) be designed by? Will it be design by booleans? By Metaballs? By Terrain editor? By Multirepplication? And then again who'll design it? Or do we have a contest for it?

Talking about prizes...how about a cash prize of $5000 :-P. Well no harm in wishful thinking! ;-) But if we got that then we would have a GURU'S CONTEST!!!! If there is a software prize, wouldn't it make sense to have a software which complements Bryce..eg. Rhino? Doesn't make much sense giving a Brycer a copy of Bryce which he/she would have gone for any way. The Vue-esprit contest has Vue-esprit as prize only for people who submit their image in Vue!! Doesn't that have redundancy built in??? Well more thoughts cooking...and will post it as soon as they get baked.

and Agentsmith...talking abt the Win Bryce 5 contest..Agor won tht 'cos of a lot of grass (I'm talking DXF imports here, not inspiration inhales) and I got a second for booleaning my way through ;-) But if somebody had to beat with Bryce 3 it would have to be booleans and terrain editors. But in case you all have seen www.deeptextures.deamon.co.uk, you'd know how kickass Bryce3 can be! Even at 100% Bryce!

Attached Link: http://www.mindscenes.com/goldentori/bryce_forum_golden_tori_awards.html

There used to be the Golden Torii awards before. Thought this might serve as useful referance!

Attached Link: www.deeptextures.demon.co.uk

Yeah, it makes sense to have prizes that would compliment Bryce, that's what I'm shooting for anyways. But hey, if you don't want to win Bryce 6 Pro, I'll just take it off the list... Yup, there should be a graphic "trophy" to go along with the prize(s). Let me find out first if we can legaly use the word "guru" in the contest. "Agor won because of a lot of grass"? Oh...it wasn't because of talent or vision (or inspiration)? It was because of dxf imports? Whew...glad you straightened out on that one...:o/ Well, some of the best art I have seen wasn't great (or won contests) because it HAD to have booleans or terrains. It was great because the artist channeled their talent through what tools they had available to them at the time. Talent makes the artist, not the number of polys in the art. Prize(s) in this contest will be software. Yeah...Rhino would be the crowned jewel of prizes (at $900), can't hurt to try. I remember the Golden Tori Award. A bit dated now, the winners pictures aren't even available for viewing anymore, shame. Your link for Lester has an extra "a" in it (demon) Great site for terrain modeling tutorial. Keep suggesting (everyone)! AgentSmith

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I'm all for keeping it simple, but one thing that I think would need clarifying - what about textures / bump maps / trans maps etc. drawn in a paint package and imported into Bryce? IMO these should be allowed and unlimited, otherwise you're excluding many of Bryce's native functions - after all, everyone has SOME type of paint package to work with, no? Just thought it would need to be made clear.

I hear ya, all being taken into consideration. I myself use textures I make in Photoshop.

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Some more thoughts: Since Agentsmith is working on the prize as well as the general contest, I wonder if I can add a few more thoughts on the same. Firstly, when we think up a prize, let's keep in mind that its not just for an upcoming contest but something that will be sustainable over coming contests and remain constant, if not improve. If the contest has to be held twice a year (the way PS Gurus is), the next release of Bryce might not be available by then! Also when one thinks up the prize, can it be made to stand up over general Renderosity contests, 3dluver contest or other net contests? Something, which will make people, really aspire towards. It might not be useful, but a guitar as a prize does make the contest special and over time has provided a stand-alone recognition. Am I being too ambitious in terms expectations? Maybe because here is the chance of starting off something which will really be a milestone for the Bryce community. I feel there are three things, which will contribute towards the success of the contest: - The prize or the stature associated with the prize. Maybe we could get creative with it. - The Judges associated with the contest. Imagine having Doug Chiang or some other Digital Art Guru judging! - The contest structured in such a manner which will be perceived as something which stands above any net community and is perceived as a generic event and accessible to all Bryce artists. Possible collaboration with other Bryce Forums and communities might make this more acceptable and who knows might overtime develop into a full fledged Bryce convention somewhere down the line! I guess Agent Smith will have the time of his life dealing with hurdles which are bound to crop up doing something of a certain magnitude, so I do wish him the very best! P.S. Never underestimate the power of grass ;-)!

Well, if you are going to insist that it be "100% Bryce" with no imported objects or anything like that, then to be Honest, it should be named the "Bryce Purists' Quarterly Challenge." You do understand that if you do insist on "100% Bryce" you are naturally excluding a lot of people who haven't already developed advanced modeling skills with metaballs/booleans. And if it's going to be "100% Bryce", WHY should textures made in any other program be allowed? Requiring everything to be done with only procedural textures is not the tiniest bit more restrictive/excluding of people than requiring any and all objects to be exclusively created in Bryce. ($.02)

Oh, I'm going over and over ALL those battles in trying to iron out the rules. I can understand all the arguments, and myself am leaning towards allowing more than restricting. It may not be up to me though...If I can get Corel involved, they may have something to say about it. Those example rules up there are JUST that, an example. They are not what we are going on. But, one thing. Let's talk imports, if someone imports an awesome free mesh from 3D Cafe, and wins...how is that gonna make the losers that spent weeks building a model inside of Bryce feel? There are a lot of sides to consider, lots of consequences to look out for. But, like I said...I myself would rather allow more things than restrict. I feel it would bring more entries in and make the entries that much better. But, how far do we go (allow)? AgentSmith

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Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=252113

- "You do understand that if you do insist on "100% Bryce" you are naturally excluding a lot of people who haven't already developed advanced modeling skills with metaballs/booleans." - That's what the Gurus' Contest is all about! After all, I don't feel bad about not being able to compete in the Grand Prix 'cos I'm not that good at controlling an F1 McClaren. ;) But flippancy aside, I think the idea is just to prevent some people having an unfair advantage over others. That means the guys with access to 5K-worth of modelling s/w, or those who've spent days (and s) downloading meshes designed by someone else, etc. But most people have a 2D paint prog knocking about, so IMO that should be allowed (although it wouldn't bother me if it wasn't - the Bryce Purists Contest sounds like a good idea). Bryce is great because you needn't know every little function in order to produce a decent image. I posted on the forum last week-ish because I couldn't get multi-replicate to work. The attached link is my first attempt at modelling using MR (although I still can't use it very well!) - no booleans, no metaballs, just spheres. It's not great, I admit, but it shows how modelling in Bryce can be simple with a bit of lateral thinking!

Whatever you all decide is ok with me. My idea is that if you make a model from scratch you should be able to use it whether it's made in max, carrara or booleened in Bryce. I'm so confused , - TJ

Well tuttle, you do have a point since it's supposed to be a "gurus/purists" challenge. I guess I'm just a little touchy on that subject because so far in all the time I've been a member, EVERY single time some idea for a Bryce challenge and/or contest has come up, there's always some (usually the same several IIRC) that want it to be "pure" Bryce - which to me just seems to be a way of saying "Let's exclude as many people as possible from this challenge and set it so only a few select persons can play." I could be wrong, but it's always given me that impression - rather strongly.

I understand not wanting to exclude people, but if it is a Bryce oriented challenge, how are you excluding people by asking them to make heavy use of the program that the contest is based on? Are you a Bryce guru if you can make a terrific render of objects and textures you created in other programs?

It is a bit hard not having access to, much less any skill in other software that might allow me (or others) to make a better creation than what I can do with just B4.

On the other hand, my artist skills aren't up (yet) to recreating what my imagination comes up with in any medium, so pure Bryce or not, I'm not up for a guru title any time soon.

Well, maybe/perhaps the members who want Pure Bryce Challenges are the ones who are better at modeling in Bryce. But, I can assure you it's not to exclude anyone. I am quite sure it is their desire to help further the skills of everyone. And, to challenge themselves. (Here's my old chestnut story) Long story made short...I won a monthly challenge, some members pointed out the fact that my picture was just a Poser figure rendered in Bryce. (which...yes it was) So, I made a commitment to enter the next challenge using pure Bryce only, no postwork and I did so. AND...ANY real skills I have today with Bryce was because of that pure Bryce I made myself do. It was amazing what came out of me in those few weeks. Anyway, this isn't a hidden mesage that the new contest will be pure Bryce, I was just joining in the discussion, is all. AgentSmith

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Well then, if "Pure Bryce" is so important, why allow ANYTHING made in ANY other program at all? *** OK. Here's a REAL challenge to the "Pure Brycers" - let's see a "believably realistic" image of a person and/or animal (real species) done exclusively in Bryce (Primitives, booleans, etc.), using ONLY Bryce procedural textures - NO imported image maps. Try THAT for your first "Pure Bryce" challenge. Anybody who can do that will definitely have me burning incense in front of his/her/its picture as a certifiable 3DGod. Who needs to be a mere guru when you can be deified? ***** Agentsmith, I do see your point about the learning - and I will admit that in THIS particular context you are probably right. Just be sure to call it the "Bryce Purists' Challenge" so people know exactly what's happening here. Like I said, it just pushed a button when I saw this come up AGAIN - as it has for every single Bryce contest/challenge/anything-at-all I have seen since first joining the online art community. Anybody know where I can get a locking cover for that damned button?

Oh, and for the animal - nothing pathetically easy like an earthworm which could be done just by replicating spheres/metaballs along a path, I mean something like a dog, cat, elephant, crocodile, etc. -- something with 'features.' Howzzat fer' a "challenge"?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=186014

You asked for it. Something like this? Pure Bryce, all metaballs. The finished product is at the link which was one of the entries for a 100% Bryce challenge. That is the key word "challenge". The point is to challenge yourself and push the program and your imagination to the limit. Importing G2H maps and textures created in image editors I think is ok. Importing a model YOU made in another program I'm kinda on the fence about it. On the one hand it still requires skill to model (and making people in Bryce is almost impossible though I'm still working on my character that I started) but lighting and textures are what really make a model shine so I think using Poser or some other modeling program would be ok as long as it's your model and not something you downloaded, with the exception of Poser perhaps.

Well I just read you meant real animal but it can be done. Here's my human so far.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=175743&Start=1&Artist=humorix&ByArtist=Yes

With reference to what Allen has said...here are a few points, which Id like to make. By definition a gurus contest is meant for people with a certain degree of expertise with that particular software and as well as a chance for novices to improve their skills. Moreover the whole point of the contest would be to bring out the most creative utilisation of the software. Bryce can be creatively used without necessarily creating great models for, Bryces modelling capabilities remains rudimentary, though it also offers the maximum challenge towards pushing Bryces limits. However, it wouldnt make sense to re-invent wheels just for the sake of modelling in Bryce. A case in point, to create the human figure in bryce, though challenging, would be like re-inventing the wheel for most, as most Brycers tend to use poser along with Bryce. So what could be a solution? Using Photoshop Gurus competition as a yardstick, I have a few suggestions to make. Photoshop has 7 different categories in a Gurus contest and of these the best of the images is chosen as the best of the show! Could we then also have categories in a Bryce Gurus contest? The Golden Torii definitely had quite a few categories, though it never quite addressed which or what usage of Bryce it was championing! Going by Bryce usage, here are a few suggestions Id like to make: - Bryce has primarily been a landscape generating software. Thus a category for the Landscape-Guru. - Although slow, Bryce has a great render engine. Therefore a category for the Render-Guru. Allowing imports, but no posts. - A category for the Illustration-Guru with Bryce, which could be theme based, allowing both imports and posts. - As Bryce is the most commonly used rendering solution with Poser, a Bryce-Poser Guru, for the best and most creative marriage of the two software. -And a final on 100% Bryce, which allows no imports. Out of the winners of these categories, let the Best of the Show Guru be selected. Taking a further note from the Photoshop contest, how about roping in people like New Riders, or publisher of Design/3d art books, DAZ, manufacturers of Video Cards, AMD/Intel, 3D modelling software like Carrara (as the interface is most like Bryce) or Rhino, EPSON/ Cannon, 3D Magazines; and other such service/product providers who would like to address the Bryce graphics community as co-hosts? All from me at the moment! :-) Avi P.S. We already have had a Bryce created Charecter/metaball character challenge as well as a 100% Bryce challenge. The Bryce Guru's contest isn't to replace challenges but to showcase the best of the best among Brycers. Couldn't help but provide a link for Allen9 to my metaball Braco and his B'day cake ;-).

Also for Allen, I did win the Bryce challenge along with Rochr in "The Duel" challenge with 100% Bryce created gladiators. Haven't posted the image as am still not completely satisfied with it and would like to fine tune it. But it should be there in the Bryce backroom. The point is...I don't know how to get the the Bryce backroom. :-( Can AgentSmith help in providing me a link to the image? Thankeees! Avi

Alderon, ok, now do it in Bryce 3.1. Not everyone here has the latest and greatest version of Bryce. Much As I'd like to have B5, at present I can't afford it. Currently I'm still saving for P5 so it'll be some time before I get a chance to upgrade to B5. Just making a point and not trying to be snyde or anything. - TJ

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=163592&Start=1&Artist=humorix&ByArtist=Yes

TJ...I did create this image (link) using B-4, though it could be done in B3.1 as well, and won the challenge when the contest was for Metaball created character. I've posted an image of a test model of a horse I did, using just multireplication and spheres (except for the nostrils done with torri). The point is, I don't think capability of a software is a substitute for imagination/creativity and application...and thts what a Guru's contest is all about. :-) Hope this serves as an answer.

Humorix, Perhaps if it weren't for that metaballs thing I might agree completely . . . although you have proven yourself capable using prinatives, not everyone will stick to that, and using metaballs is a serious advantage. - TJ

TJ if you read the previous post (#53), I have suggested different catagories, of which only one is a purist Bryce. :-) Would this be acceptable? If it would then let's see how the modalities can be worked out and help Agent Smith, if we can and provided he needs it, in realizing the Bryce Guru's contest! However I still maintain, imagination and application (of one's mind) scores as an advantage over any particular software capability and hopefully the judges of the contest will be well versed enough to give somebody due credit, irrespective of whichever version of software used! Avi

For Allen again...located the gladiator image...100% Bryce, metaball, boolean, landscape et al. Ummm doI qualify for any incense? ;-)

I swear sometimes humorix has a hidden camera in my computer room...(or is psychic) Having catagories is the one working solution to the problems of not only leveling the playing field as far as Bryce 3&4 vs Bryce 5, but also will allow for the various types of Bryce users. Some people excel in building within Bryce, some with using Poser imports, some just do abstracts, etc, etc...there needs to be enough catagories to attract ALL types of Bryce users, as this will help attract more entries, and give a LOT more people a chance to place in the contest. AgentSmith

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I don't think Ken (our old Mod) posted this particular challenge into the (old) backroom. Or, did your gladiator pic win in a challenge when I had taken over? (can't remember) Old Bryce backroom; http://market.renderosity.com/~bryce/newsite/ AgentSmith

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humorix (and Agent Smith), 53 and 54 were crossposted with 55. I was responding to 56 as by then you were on to something else. As much as the idea of having catagories kind of puts a 'thud' in my stomach, I can't think of anything better to 'level the field'. You know those who are doing well sometimes forget how hard it is for some of us to get things like upgrades. I thank you for your concern in this regard. As to the idea of talent overriding all obsticles it is true to some degree buteven a talented cave man finger painting pigments made from ochre and water will never accomplish holographic art. This is an exaguration of course, and I concede that the difference in our level of talent is emmence but widening the gap even futher would have served no purpose. Hey let's face it - to truely level the playing field you would have to use deluxe paint, have one eye closed and be using a 3"(7.5cm) monitor.(and you're not the only one either.) But I'm willing to try even given your superior talent not because I think that there is even a remote chance that I can win but inspite of the fact I can't. I hope our discussion has done nothing to lessen our ability to communice effectively with each other and that you think no less of me because of it. like I said at the top of the thread, I'm agreeable to whatever you all come up with, but I felt I had to say what I did. my respects, - TJ

Well so far I've made it as a psychic! With Allen indulging, I might even get to be God of sorts! :-P And with Bryce community helping I might even make it to the X-Files! :-P Hey TJ there is no chance of thinking any less of you. If we, amongst our peers, can't let our hair down here, where else can we? At one level we are all equals...Brycians! And there is no better place to rant..rave and yet be with a whole group of great people! For purely academic reasons my machine configuration is 333Mhz Celeron with 320MB RAM, 15" monitor and no deluxe paint :-(! Avi P.S. Agent Smith...the Gladiator image was after you had taken over as moderator for the month of Aprl-May this year.

As we are on talent speak here...Einstein said "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% prespiration", and Napoleon said "L'audace, tou jour l'audace!" (Audacity, always audacity)...I say "God grant Bryce a quicker render engine!" and Shakespear's "2.b or 0.2.b.." is finally proved to be a question on upgrades! Enjoy!!!! Avi

It seems that %1 takes up 99% of the time. unless you count rendertimes.

"the Gladiator image was after you had taken over as moderator for the month of Aprl-May this year". Dowt! Uh, yeah I got that challenge somewhere....(as i go scrambling)

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Michelangelo - "A man paints with his brains and not with his hands."

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This one always made me laugh; M. C. Escher - "Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. I think it's in my basement... let me go upstairs and check."

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Humorix - I like the horse - I'd not seen that before. I think the point has been proven now that talent cannot be seen as "an unfair advantage" in a contest. ;) And didn't Micelangelo do well for a dude who use something as cumbersome as a brain to paint with? ;>]

And, I complain, having to paint with a mouse...

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Ummm do grey cells paint in greyscale or 32 bit colors? And is painting with brains eco-friendly and bio-degradable? And would restoring Michelangelo's paintings be called neuro-surgery? Hmmmmmmmmm I think I'm better off with my booleans! ;-) And Tuttle, have yet to complete an image with the horse so as to post it...had no intention of posting a WIP, but the involved discussion here got the better of me! ;-)

So what is the rules and when is the Contest?

just my two cents worth about post work ... if the challenge is Bryce.. it should be just that Bryce. Some may just "get by" in Bryce, yet be gods in Photoshop. so they could take that halfazz Bryce scene, import it into Photoshop and make it a "winner". In this case... is the person a Bryce "guru" or a Photoshop "guru". Yes there are some here that could descern that it was "heavily" Photoshopped (sp) but without saying so in their voting... others would think it is a great Bryce image with "some" or no post work. Should the artist fess up with how much post work was done, say that it is 30% Bryce and 70% postwork ? Yes most everyone has some form of "paint" program be it MS Paint, Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro etc. Those with Photoshop would have a great advantage over those with just MS Paint, yet all of us have a version of Bryce, so hence my reasoning for a Bryce only contest, no post work. As to importation of textures... ummm.... all would have the same advantage there, the ability to import a texture. Then again... a "guru" should be able to utilitze and tweek the texture lab to create the texture that they need. In the Rhino forum... we do just that for the Rhino modeling challenges... 100% Rhino for the modeling. You can show a "textured" version, but to enter the challenge, you MUST enter a gray scale image of your model. This shows the modeling skill of the individual, not their ability to texture. The model can be imported into another program to render, but it still must be gray scale image of the model.

Here's my 2: A guru's contest would be Bryce only. Afterall, it's a Bryce Guru contest, not a Digital Artist Guru Contest or a 3D Guru contest. No imports. Textures might be reused, why not? I use the default textures all the time, I'd hate to have to tweak each one by one point just to satisfy a dumb rule. New works only. Yes, that means you can't pull your favorite model you built for an image a year ago and use it in the entry. But that should be at the judges' discretion. (e.g. if Tatro uses Creepy in an image I think the judges might let it go as part of a series so long as it wasn't just a pic of Creepy) There would be a panel of 3 or 5 judges from the Bryce community (possibly elected by the entrants or the community at large). As for post work, leave that to the judges too. The Guru's theme should be "Made with Bryce" and if someone decides to use post work, it should be left to the judges' discretion if it's acceptable or went too far. I think perhaps post work should be said to be "frowned upon." It's about guru-ship, not about being fair to Bryce beginners. So experience will certainly give you an edge, but beginners are more than welcome to compete. You never know, one may win. Some people learn faster than others. That's it. For prizes, Corel may offer up Painter or Bryce 6 or other procreate products as a prize if they had the rights to use (not own) the final image. (it would be a great way for Corel to advertize Bryce afterall -- especially with v6 in the works) And the publicity probably wouldn't hurt the artist either. With Corel's support, they could advertize it on their site or host it even so all the Brycers would be included, not just 'rosity or 3dcommune or whatever. Corel is of course the one place all Brycers would know about. The only caveat with Corel (or any company) is that I wouldn't let them be the sole sponsor, I think having just one sponsor could end up poorly. Either way, I think the contest would have to be hosted on a third party's server so it's not thought of as a Renderosity only thing. I could volunteer space, but there are many other Bryce pages on the web that may be more appropriate. P.S. I believe the good folks over at delphiforums.com in the Bryce forum are still doing the Golden Torii awards. http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=bryce&msg=7919.1

Purist = Puritan A pox on both yer houses. "I suggest 100% Bryce only. No imports of any kind. Afterall, it is a Bryce contest, right? Show the true power of Bryce!" UM, the power of Bryce also includes importing models including those made by someone else. The power of Bryce also includes importing textures. Why put those capabilities into the program otherwise. IF BRYCE RENDERS IT, IT IS BRYCE. "Some may just "get by" in Bryce, yet be gods in Photoshop. so they could take that halfazz Bryce scene, import it into Photoshop and make it a "winner"." I have news for you, NO postwork will turn a halfazz Bryce scene into a winner. It will just be a halfazz scene with postwork. And, um, if someone imports Vicky that does not make it a winner. How many pictures of Vicky have you seen that are cr*p? I rest my case There is no such thing as an 'unfair advantage' because any two people with the same resources will come up with something totally different. The dragon and horse up there are magnificent and VERY VERY impressive. But can they be incorporated into an equally impressive scene?

OH MY GOD!!!! I had a 3 page post and it didn't show!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!

One year in high school I broke a finger in football practice which put me out for the season so rather than do nothing after school I joined the chess club. All the 'great minds' laughed at first but they got used to my presence after a while. I even won a game occasionally. I bring this up omly because of the way they orginized the 'challenges'. A tiered system of elimination whereby everyone was eligible for the first round, but only the winners would go on to to the next round - the pyrimid continued to its logical conclusion. I hear alot of talk about how its the artist and not the tool - with that and the tiered system in mind here's my sugguestion: three tiers the first no metaballs or anything not possable in B3. choose 10 or so winners from that. only the winners go on to the next round. the second only what is possable in B3 and B4. choose say 5 winners. the third anything possable in B5 goes to determine the final winner. - TJ

So far...this is the basic (supposed) system for voting... Members will do the initial voting on the entries, narrowing it down to a certain number(in whatever catagories). Then the final voting will be done by the "celebrity" judges. Good arguing/discussing everyone, keep it up. It is bringing up things that we've not thought of. POSTING TIP- Right before you click "Post Reply"...select your (3 pages) of text (lol) right click, copy...then try the "post reply". That way...if the posting screws up...you don't lose your text. Just go back and paste your message, try again. AgentSmith

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thanks...too late now...hrmmmmmfffdfff

Ok here we go again, cut back from 3 pages though...lol: I have looked at several online challenges from a variety of software and this is what they for the most part hold as their main rules: NO PREMADE OR IMPORTED MODELS: All models must be made unique to the challenge and no models may be imported from other software programs as this will give people with "better" software an unfair advantage. TEXTURES FROM THE WEB OR TEXTURES CREATED FROM A PAINT PROGRAM ARE ALLOWED: Because everyone has internet access and some type of paint program, it is allowable to use jpeg files as textures. Keep in mind that people may recognize downloaded textures and be less impressed with your image. The justification for allowing texture imports is that 90 percent of people have a paint program, whereas maybe only 10 percent have an expensive modeler. POST WORK IS LIMITED TO 10%: Because this is a bryce challenge your entry should illustrate your skills within bryce, which is a 3d application. Photoshop and alike programs are 2d applications, and present a different skill mastery. Minor contrast adjustments and small touch ups are permitted, as long as the image bears a 90% resemblance to the original render. TRANS-MAPPING IMAGES ONTO 2D FACES IS NOT ALLOWED: You may not texture a 2d face with a person and apply transparency and call it a 3d object. This is the same thing as doing a full post-work composite. THE ARTIST MUST BE WILLING TO PROVIDE THE ORIGINAL SCENE FILES UPON REQUEST: This is a stipulation included in contests with any types of prizes. Because the prizes may be of substantial value, it is important to dissuade any uncertainties about a winning submission. I think most would agree that they would feel uncomfortable giving a 1000 dollar prize to an image that they were unsure of. Multiple sponsers are definantly neccessary for the continuity of the contest. There should be somewhere around 5 or 6 sponsors per contest. They each donate some sort of prize. The winner gets one grand prize in addition to one of 2 or more "BIG" prizes PLUS one of 2 or more "SMALLER" prizes PLUS one of 2 or more constant prizes. The constant prizes are small prizes donated by a fixed sponsor that always fills that position. For example, a contsant prize might be a free model from turbosquid or a texture library cd. These are the only prizes that stay the same throughout many consecutive challenges. Keep in mind that one option out of every prize category should be compatible with both Mac and PC operating systems. Second place would recieve the "BIG" prize choice, the "SMALLER" prize choice, and the "CONSTANT" prize choice. The 3rd place entry would recieve the "SMALLER" prize choice and the "CONSTANT" prize choice. The honorable mention would recieve the "CONSTANT" prize choice. The prizes may vary between winning levels. For example, the "BIG" prizes available for first place may be different than the "BIG" prizes available for second place. These rules are designed with the intention of keeping things running smoothly and continuously. We want a good challenge with good prizes, but we don't want it to only happen once because we didn't think things throught the first time. All it takes it one thing to kill a big challenge. For example, the sponsors lose confidence, the prizes are "lame," a group of people get angry, the challenge officials don't enforce the rules....etc. We must be sure to really think this through, or else I can guarantee that the challenge will flop the first time around. Hope this post helps give some perspective as to how other big challenges are run. Oh and BTW, the Golden Tori Awards are still held every year at the bryce forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/bryce Also, I do like the idea of physical prizes as well (guitars, cookies, trips, etc.)

Lol...yea I got a collection of online contest rules going. My fave so far is 3Dluvr's. Thanks for the time to write this all out again. I would agree though...that if a contestant wanted to render multiple Bryce scenes, then put those onto 2D faces for use in another Bryce scene to render, that would be fine. We need to provide ways for members with older computers to enter larger or more complex scenes without crashing their pc. Which is also one of my main points of allowing post work, with the idea of compositing multiple Bryce scenes together in mind. Yet the whole post-processing thing hasen't been settled yet. It may be set aside for it's own catagory. I believe no matter what one of the rules will be for the artist to be able to supply their files they used for entry. Yes, I know some people make huge Bryce scenes, but as you say, if the sponsors are going to provide very expensive prizes... And, like I said before, lol...prizes will be software. Programs that could be used in conjunction with Bryce. No guitars, lol. Not that I would turn down an expensive guitar as a prize, it's just not what we are looking for. Thanks again - AgentSmith

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And what happens to people who want mammary substitues or rubber chicken as prizes??? WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH! :_(( I sincerely weep on tuttle's behalf!

lolololol

The only problem I have with allowing post work is that it is an entirely different skill to be able to composite several layers nicely. But if it's by itself in it's own category I have no gripes there. I have a fear though that some people may try to abuse this and may go to far with post work, but then again the ruie that you must submit the scene file if asked takes care of this. In terms of prizes, I agree that they should be mainly software, but I do think we should have some sort of "mystery prize" that is kind of a joke thing. It would lighten the mood a bit I think. Maybe for the honorable mention spot, if there is one, they could get a rubber chicken or somethiing as a joke type of thing. If you've ever played mario-cart racing on N-64 then you know that if you finish in 4th place for a whole grand prix then the bomb chases you around until yopu blow up. This would be kinda the same thing....well...sort of...lol

Ummmmm cld we have a bombshell, prefferably blonde, instead of bomb to blow one up? Definitely wldn't mind being chased by one...even if its for the 4th place! Any silicon (silly cone?) involved here can be attributed to advanced metaballs as against the processor! (People please note not meatballs!) Am I getting too creative here? Hey we seem to be stuck on discussing rules!!! How about prizes???? Let's make a wishlist and the rulz will fall into place I say! ;-)

On a more serious noteI thought we might as well make a start on being creative about what the prizes can be. The thing we need to keep in mind when talking to possible sponsors is that it isnt just Brycers who use only the software, but people who use hardware, read books and magazines, have extended interests etc, and such an event provides sponsors a cost effective means addressing this segment. The bane of most online competition is that it isnt taken too seriously or doesnt enjoy the same status as an off-line one. However, if this was to be worked out properly, this could be a major Bryce community event in its own rights. So here I have created a wish list of sorts and hope people will chip in on this with their own suggestions and creative ideas! Well there are 3 things people desire Recognition Enhancement Monetary benefits Suggestion on Prizes: (as well as possible sponsor list) In terms of recognition, what if the images got published in a few leading Graphic magazines, including Renderosity, CGW, Siggraph publications etc. An illustration contract? A free website with personal url? Or say inclusion in illustrators showcase website..etc. In terms of Enhancement: The Fastest AMD or Intel processor plus Motherboard/ and/or 3D Graphics accelerator card/ a new 19 Monitor. A selection of software (Bryce 6? Poser 5? Rhino? Carrara? Etc) 6 month subscription to Renderosity, Computer Graphics World, New Rider book coupons etc In terms on Monetary benefits: Well its just moolah here, the more the merrier. But at the end of the day its prize money which makes events big and attracts the best talents! Comments? Suggestions? Additions? Folks?

Whomever comes in dead last wins this giant Poser Box.

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Agent Smith, Yeah, and where am I gonna put that? - TJ

We're definitely planning on getting this contest into, some way or another, the Rendersotiy Magazine, should be no problem with that. Other mags will be work, but worth it if the higher ups can make it happen. Unfortunately, with prize money, there is always the fact of the IRS and the prize winner, whom will personally be held responsible to pay taxes on all winnings. Someone wins a $1000, goes out and spends it, then later owes the IRS $50-$100 in taxes and is mad not at themselves...but at the contest. I have seen it happen. Also, and really more importantly, here's how you get a sponsor in the first place...you promote their PRODUCT they are donating to your contest. Companies would rather promote their product than the fact they are giving away money. Plus, them donating $500 worth of software is way cheaper to them than donating $500 cash. But, hey...if some big company wants to give us money for prizes, all the better!(I'm sure not against it) Agentsmith

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Will a giantsize DAZ Stephanie be inside? ;-)

Cld it be AS that we are looking only at the software company as sponsors. Instead of looking at the sponsors directly, why not look at the community who would be interested in the contest and then look towards sponsors who would like to address this community. This community consists of people who are global, need hardware upgrades, read up on art and graphics, seek education and/or information in this field, are interested in animation, modelling, 3D etc. It is this profile of the community which will attract sponsors. Corel might have less incentive towards the community, for they use Bryce anyway. But Pennwell publications would like to increase reader base. This community needs better render power...so hardware manufacturers. etc. etc. The whole point is if we put our mind to it and package this event properly the whole contest will get to stand out. Also the bit abt IRS..is it applicable to only US or globally as well. In that case why not deduct from the prize-money straight away and pay? Well will post more thoughts as they come along.

I think that the rules madmax outlined look okay. There are two things, tho'. About the textures, somebody upthread suggested using only the textures you make yourself. Well, okay, if the texture is made in a paint program. But I'd say no for the rule that you are only allowed to use photo textures you photographed yourself. Not all of us have a digital camera (or an other kind), so it would be a pretty big advantage for people who do. About the models, I can live with not being allowed to use pre-made models. But what about importing models, doing a distance or altitude render and then creating a terrain or lattice? Is it still Bryce? Is it under the 10% rule for post-work? On the other hand, I'd be for allowing the use of Poser characters. I do have Poser 3 I got for free. :-) Hmmm, OTOH, it creates problems, because those with Poser 4 can have clothes, and the others would have to have imported models. Poser 5 owners would have the styled hair. OTST, better not use Poser, or create a separate category. Finally, I'd think that sponsors would be more willing to donate programs and similar stuff than money. Costs them much less and they get to enlarge their customer base. But Recognition and software would be quite nice. And I wouldn't say no to a P4 2.8 GHz computer with 2 gigs of memory and a 19" monitor. :-)

-- erlik

I know that sponsors would like to place their product, for it would be just opportunity cost for them and not a cash outflow, but if you were to draw up proper cost analysis of the whole event and on the basis of that seek sponsorship in both cash and kind, you might find it easier to negotiate deal. You can not only offer exposure, but also creation of mini sites, promotions, display space etc. If this event was to span across all the graphics communities and for all Bryce users, I don't think sponsors would shy away from associating themselves with this event. The trick will be to hi-light the user base of Bryce. How popular and prestigious Photoshop Guru Award has become, thus the inherent potential in a similiar event and the benefits they'll specifically accrue as a sponsor. The team backing the event (in this case Renderosity) and their track record and credentials. Special efforts being made to organise and market the whole event. I would suggest that a list of all possible sponsors be made who would like to address this community. An action plan drawn as to what can be offered to them (promotions, mini sites etc). Detail all possible costs and what media real estate can be offered to sponsors. Then device out a package and make the presentations to probable sponsors. Does this make sense?

As for the textures: I meant that it was ok to make textures in other programs. Like I said this thing was about twice as long and I had to repost it and I left some stuff out. As for using lattices, that is fine, as it is a native tool for bryce, and creating a grayscale image is similar to creating a texture, which is allowed. I do not think poser should be allowed. A substantial amount of people do not have poser and I feel that if you center in on one subject then it starts to not be bryce work, and becomes more of a "render an imported model" type thing. And AgentSmith, about the post work; Where do you draw the line? We know you've included compositing several different renders, but are things such as lens flares, noise filters, paint effects, and glow effects allowed as well? If you are going to include post work you'll need some very clear cut rules as to what is and what is not acceptable.

I've been reading all kinds of stuff about postwork and no-postwork. And I think that everyone forgets the most simple solution: Make a category that allows postwork for the people who need postwork to get the image the way they want it. And make a category that doesn't allow postwork for the people that have the opinion that a Bryce Guru's contest should be 100% bryce and 0% postwork.

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(")(")This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

Restrictive rules are okay. What I think is silly is some of the reasons for the rules. I propose that nobody with talent should be allowed to enter. That way there is no unfair advantage at all! :)

Renderosity cannot be responsible for taxes incurred with prize money, FAR too much room for something to go wrong. I don't know about global tax laws, but Renderosity (bondware) is located within the U.S., so I can almost guarantee you that's the law/rule they would stick with. Oh...(kinda stupid of me), I have forgotten that I keep meaning to mention as far as prizes...other than software, that pc hardware would rock, as would books pertaining to 3D CGI, etc. That stuffs was always on my list, I just wanted to quell the guitar thing. But, hey...like I said nothing would be turned down as a prize for you guys! "But I'd say NO for the rule that you are only allowed to use photo textures you photographed yourself" - most photo's on the internet are copyrighted...so are most meshes, oh, they're free for personal use, but once you win something with it...the original author is going to want something. "importing models, doing a distance or altitude render and then creating a terrain or lattice" - No. See above. Yes, it still applies, you are winning with the work of someone else. It would (sorta) be like making a rough tape of a Linkin Park CD and then calling the tape your own work. Poser Characters - I think this may have to be a catagory of its own, or perhaps a general "mesh import" catagory. Can't help with the Poser 3 vs. poser 5 thing, we have gone through that same discussion with Bryce 3 vs. Bryce 5. humorix - your post #100...We're way ahead of ya on that. ;o) Keep pumping that brain of yers, though, we're on the same page... Most of the what's allowed in mesh imports, texture imports, and post-work will be solved by the catagories. AgentSmith

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"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Heh...maybe we should start a new thread.

I want this thread so big it makes the Internet itself sink to the right.

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Post on rules, judging and prize winning follows! ;-)

Hehe...you mean my shear quanum displacement isn't altering the fragile balance in silicon networks that make up the internet? I better put on a few pounds then.

Heyyyyy Can I make this official??? Is this the loooooooooooooooongest post ever in the Bryce Forum??? And have we reached any conclusions?? If not can I get back to pondering over Zhann dilemma...which came first? A scrambled egg...a rubber chicken...a guru...a judge...??? This is all very taxing for the Brain and Michelangelo insists you use brains instead of brush for painting! :-( Is this multi-tasking or re-formatting?? Oohhhhhhh noooo another dilemma! Umm I better get back to blowing up pontoons and life jackets, before this post does a Titanic! And ummmm anybody seen Allen9?

My 2 cents about software as prizes. If you get a company to offer their latest software package, what happens if the winner can't use it because their system is too old/ too small/ too macintosh? I suppose the winner could sell it on ebay... Would it be possible to offer a choice of software or perhaps a credit of $500 worth of software from company Y? Could all the losers be sent the cookies? Lin

Those are good points to consider. And, yes if you can't use your prize, you can sell it, it would be YOUR property. But it would be great if someone was in that position, if they would give the members at Renderosity a chance at buying it first. My (personal) little fantasy is to see someone win something they don't have and then I can watch as their art changes/improves/expands because of said prize. Choice of software might happen. I would sure encourage the of prizes trading amongst winners, before them selling them off, lol! Mmmm....cookies. My girlfriend just made some oatmeal spice cookies a couple days ago...so good...so good... AgentSmith

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

"Poser Characters - I think this may have to be a catagory of its own, or perhaps a general "mesh import" catagory. Can't help with the Poser 3 vs. poser 5 thing, we have gone through that same discussion with Bryce 3 vs. Bryce 5." Just got Poser 5. So there. I simply couldn't resist announcing it. :-) I'm all for creating separate categories, with various things allowed in them. I think that all of us share Brendan's opinion: "What about a Bryce slander contest, yet again this week I had to read through a rundown of the best 3D software, only to see bryce restricted to being a Landscape renderer! Arrrgh!" Could we try to define categories? Or the majority is against them and for pure Bryce? In my opinion, every category should have "made by author" clause -- no other people's meshes, no presets that come with a program. Specifically, that would mean you cannot take the Enterprise mesh that's available on the ... forgot where, or Poser's "flying kick" pose", for instance. And I don't think that one point was addressed. Whether the judges, whoever they are, judge the mastery of Bryce or the pic itself. It may be self-evident, but I think it should be discussed.

-- erlik

If it must be made by you, then there is no poser at all...you did not make any of those meshes...you just paid for them. Poser must have its own category if we are going to allow it.

madmax, Regarding Poser I couldn't agree more. Poser Does not allow you to create your oun meshes, but lets remember that the more categories we have, the smaller the prizes are likely to be. I hear that Animotions was giving away a free copy of P5 to the winner and 5.00 DAZ gift certificates just for entering. How they got the sponsers to be so generous I don't know, but we can't expect as much here as Brycers are a much smaller community than Posers. we should try to find a way to limit catagories. Agent Smith, did the cookies have raisins in them. Living in Fresno I HAD to ask. we have now broken 100 replies(2500 to go.), - TJ

"If it must be made by you, then there is no poser at all...you did not make any of those meshes" That's why I said, "no presets that come with a program." I mean, it's easy to plop a preset pose and render it in Bryce. But go and create something like Martin Murphy or Sydd Raven, it's not that easy. Yes, that creates a problem, because you get the mastery of Bryce and Poser in one category. OTOH, why I'm arguing for the use of Poser, it's practically the only way to create a believable human character. I don't want to denigrate the undoubtable quality of Humorix's gladiators and some other works, but they are not that.

-- erlik

Yes, to the raisins...so good... There will definitely have to be some sort of Poser/Bryce catagory, it may just fall under a catagory that allows mesh imports. An Abstract catory. A Pure Bryce catagory. Let's suspend the post-work argument for a few minutes...what other Major themed catagories would you like to see? AgentSmith

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Maybe best lighting, best modeling, and best composition. These are more like the Tori awards though. We have to decide if there will be major categories like that, and then to have subcategories such as poser, post work...etc. Or have we already decided? All I can surely say is to give enough categories so that the entries in each one will be somewhat similar in theme...making it much easier to vote on. We want to avoid a super huge contest with only guidline categories...or do we? I gues what I'm trying to get at is represented with this example: Topic 1: Best modeling: a. Poser and Mesh Imports (omitted for modeling challenge) b. Extensive post work c. Pure bryce Topic 2: Best Abstract: a. Poser and Mesh Imports b. Extensive post work c. Pure bryce Topic 3: Best lighting: a. Poser and Mesh Imports b. Extensive post work c. Pure bryce Topic 4: Best landscape: a. Poser and Mesh Imports b. Extensive post work c. Pure bryce Topic 5: Best seascape: a. Poser and Mesh Imports b. Extensive post work c. Pure bryce The list goes on..... That's what I personally want to see..feedback?

Madmax, I think that your categories are good. But will it present a problem in finding sponsors?

-- erlik

That's what I want to know...lol