Please can we have the old design for gallery pages back. The new one, with everything boxed in and left-aligned text in clunky fonts, is desperately ugly. I mean really bad on the eyes. PLEASE put things back the way they were; I just went through the Bryce gallery and the new design ruins the look of the pictures. It's much too insistent, too 'in yer face', and takes attention away from the art on the page. The pages have lost the simple grace they used to have. If it ain't broke, don't break it.

Hooboy...this must have just happened...talk about too much info...I think now it is "overworked" really...just far too much to look at besides the art...

It really, really stinks! Change back now! Pheeeewww!!!! Thanks.

I agree. I also think it was much better the old way. Plus, it seems that there's no way to comment on the older pictures. Looks like the pictures that were posted before this change do not have a comment option.

If comments are enabled, the comments box is down at the bottom like it always has been, even on older images....it might be that some of the images you were looking at were still in the "change-over" process and that's why it didn't show up at the time. As to the layout, well, personally, I'd like to see the "image description" section centered, but then I'm just partial to centering....;-)

I like it! Great work :) I'd have to agree with dreamsosweet though - center aligned would be nice.

I like being able to link who I got a figure from with the vendor...seems like an easy way to encourage the people who contribute to graphics. But I don't remember being able to vote for myself before...is that something new? Seems like before I could only vote for the graphics of other people..or was I just not paying attention (always a possibility).

Thanks for the heads-up, dialyn - somehow I don't think "self-voting" was part of the intended changes, although I could be wrong! ;-P Btw, have heard that "center aligned" is on the way....

runs off to vote continuously for herself NOT snicker

Wait, don't tell them yet. This may be my only chance to get in the hot 20!!!

I agree that the new format is a big mistake. Why was it necessary to change this around??? You know, there is a supposedly a huge list of things that the community wants that never seems to be gotten to, but things like this are pushed up. I appreciate you trying to better the community, I do, but this IMO ain't the way to go... Artwork should be the focus of the Art Gallery. It's not an advertisement for the store. Credits should go under the image, not above. It's not important what was contained in the image, but the image itself and that is what should be presented at the start. Geesh, for a place that calls themselves an "artist" community, with every passing day it's less about the artist, and more about the store, even though one feeds the other and without one, you don't have the other... Also, you need to add some cellpadding to the comment part of the table, so that it's possible to actually read an individual comment instead of them all strewn together. It IS gonna be fun watching the fireworks on this one... Sorry to sound a little harsh, it's been a long day, but I really think this was a bad idea... My 2c ShadowWind

Yup, it's harder to read to me also. And, I'll agree with the part about the image description being above the credits and whatnot. I liked it better when it was simple. My half a cent. ;) ~C

Yes- the new format is really ugly-- The old way worked best and was attractive This is becoming change for the sake of change.

Y'all bear with us, please - nothing is set in stone at this point - your comments and suggestions are being taken into account (keep those cards and letters coming in, folks), and some aesthetic modifications are already in the works - so what you see tonight is not necessarily what we're going to end up with.... :-)

Well I have a suggestion.. ( Sorry dreamsosweet.. I seem to be following you around.. I am not trying to give you a hard time , honest s ) I suggest that if the site is trying to make it easier to give credit to folks, it should be set up to give credit for free stuff rather than sales items.. or at least as well as sales items.. after all giving credit for free items is basically mandatory while giving credit for sales items is a courtesy .

It's not the links in credits that are a problem. But the current system doesn't let us credit anyone who isn't a renderosity vendor! How about all those items from DAZ? and RDNA? And poserpros? How about freestuff items? Let us credit everyone in the same place.

Actually, Laurie, I thought I was following you! ;-) I think these are very good suggestions - I know I use stuff from all over, and in the interests of keeping it "tidy" would like to see them all in one place (even if links are just provided to Rosity items, cos I can see that logic, too). Okay, I admit it would be hard to put the link to the actual free stuff item, cos they're not grouped like the stores are, but maybe have the link go to the Artist page (even for both merchants and FS contributors), that contains links to both FS and MP, so merchants might even gain potential customers that way, through whatever free stuff they might have.

Yep, I'm with eirian. How can we credit freestuff items and stuff from vendors who are not from Renderosity?

PS: I really think text credits are enough, I will never use a system where I have to link into a flea market. :P

ShadowWind, what browser are you using? I'm on IE 6 and there is cell padding, and the text is all below the image not above it. And like all censorship issues, it's simple. If you don't like it, don't read it/watch it/view it. In the case of the gallery, why can't you just view the image and not read the credits? No-one forces you to do so. Yuri, just add a link in to the free stuff anyway :) You'll never be stopped for doing it.

Butt ugly maybe isn't the the most appropriate description at R'osity, but this is certainly the worst I've ever seen; hope it will be changed back.

http://www.roobol.be

Major YUCK. The old design was better. This new attempt is like reading the ingredients on a soup can! Jack

I like the new layout.. puts on a blindfold, lights a last ciggerette, stands against the wall.... but! I can't credit my own meshes! how about a field for that? in the trueSpace and other gallerys, most of the models are made by the artist themselves... yet, only vendors can be credited? tut tut! Kai ok... FIRE!

Well, the new design should be overworked a bit. - we should be able to not credit vendors only. I often use freestuff, and they deserve to be credited in the same place. So change the drop box with the vendors to a text box where we can write in, please... :) - the new design is pulling the eye apart from the image. It should be more... (damn, my english...) more... lesser viewable(?) Don't know how to say, the new design is just too much. I liked it how it has been. I can live with changes if they are modified a little bit like mentioned above and by all the other artists her. Thank you! Greets, Jimi

The Image Description should be directly under the image, everything else is just plain wrong. :P

To answer Xena's question in post 21: And like all censorship issues, it's simple. If you don't like it, don't read it/watch it/view it. In the case of the gallery, why can't you just view the image and not read the credits? No-one forces you to do so. It's not a censorship issue, it's a design issue. The new layout, with big stripes of flavour-colour across boxes, imposes itself on the viewer. The information below the image is much too visible and distracts horribly from the art on the page. So, yes, we are being forced to look at it. Good design recognises that its function is to lead the viewer's eye around the page - design can't help but do that. Now there's a subsidiary page element crying out for attention and competing with what's supposed to be the main focus: the picture. It's a poor design decision. I know it was done with the very best of intentions, to make the galleries better. The folks who run this site always make decisions in the interests of both the site and its huge number of users. It's just that this one didn't work out as planned because it breaks one of the basic principles of design. PLEASE let's get rid of those boxes!

Okay....I think i must gripe, here. i am reading that only renderosity merchants can be credited. from the beginning, i have been making my own stuff. and, i give myself credit for it...heyas, folks actually contact and purchase a bit, here, and there.....but it still stays pretty much something that you don't see plastered all over the gallery, enough to make you sick of whatever it is. i would not want to sell in the renderosity market...."flea market" puts it aptly. so, i ask....is this a precursor to cl's "content paradise"? i do believe it is. i also believe, that this may be the first attempt to set up a content "monopoly". there is a very informative thread on p5 and vendors, over at poserpros. i see now, that some of the more cynical folks may have actually been just seeing clearly. i create my stuff, and, have been a member of this site for a long time. i should be able to credit myself for my own hard work....or, for that matter, credit an independent friend for their hard work, etc....WHETHER OR NOT I CHOOSE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MARKETPLACE. the way you have set this up stifles competition, and, at some point could actually hinder the creation of fresh, "original"....which we don't much see, anymore....3rd party content creation.

....also! why is it that we can't see who gave what rating? I, for one, would like to know who thinks what about my images......the omission is a green card for trollers. A lot of time and effort could be saved by going back to the old format and then consulting the community at large about these changes, rather than building-up from such a weak foundation. Don't box us in! Cheers!

Well, I've just checked and the situation is still the same with the comments: some images have the comment box, others don't. And it's not because the artist did not enable comments: there are many images which have several comments already, but do not have the comment box to post new ones. I agree about the credit issue people are raising here: one should be able to credit free stuff providers, non-Renderosity artists and themselves, not just the 'Rosity vendors. But the best thing would be to go back to the old design anyway.

Oh, yes, I also agree with Brendan's point about the ranking: you should be able to see who gave what ranking, not just the average.

I don't understand why you can't still credit free stuff providers and other vendors in the comments area where you tell about your graphic. That's where my old credits still show up....it doesn't seem that big of deal to me. Am I missing something?

The comment boxes arnt working. I know for a fact my brother and I both enabled them on our last images but there are no comment boxes for people to put a comment. I really don't like this design

I wasn't talking about the area for other people to make comments, but the section for the creators of the graphics to put notes on their graphics. I know the other section is having problems. The are I am talking aobut was working last night which was the last time I check on it.

Is this a vote? IMO, I like the old style better too, designwise. And like to see who left the rankings. Keep working on it, I'm sure you'll come up with a pleasing compromise...hopefully...sits back to see what becomes of this

Okay, I spoke too soon on this and see that they did change the format back to having the image description follow the picture. That's all I was looking for. I never said ban the credits Xena...Thanks to the powers that be... Now if they could just get a bit of cellpadding in the comments so that they all don't look run together, I think that would work pretty well...

Yes! even that small change back to the old description format really helps the eye. In my ire I should have thought to mention that the dates attached to the comments is a GOOD! idea. It has pointed-up to my attention that images do not get buried in the back pages, there are plenty of comments that come months later. Another thing I should say is that the new format for the artists pages that were instated a while back, were a great improvement, so some belated praise is due for that. Feeling less churlish today..... Cheers!

Umm .. okay so I am starting to like this LOL.. I really like the idea that I can comment back to folks, answer questions and so on with out it looking like I am just trying to add to my #s .. I love that the artist description is now centered .. and if you could add a link to the creator of free stuff I would be totally happy..

I'll second Laurie S on that. Now that the description is centered I reckon I can live with the awfull boxes. Jack

I would like to respectfully disagree with everyone at once. I welcome the anonymous rankings. If someone wants their rating to be known they can always stick it in the comment. But not just that, I think it should go further and allow instant rankings from people without them being forced to leave a comment (and without the reload delay). That way an artist should be able to accumulate dozens of rankings instead of 5 or 10 or 20 at best, leading to a more meaningful average. And if there are a few trollers amongst them, who cares? At the moment, one troll could bring the ranking down by several points. I thank you.

Instant ranking without comment would be too much of a dream come true for trollers. Don't know if you have ever been the focus of a troller, but it is a serious pain in the A$$. More rankings would always be nice! But like you said "one troll could bring the ranking down by several points"-That's not good at all, and that's the goal of the troller. Making it instant could further weaken that vulnerable spot. Don't ya think? Or, am I missing the point?

Contact Me | Gallery | Freestuff | IMDB Credits | Personal Site
"I want to be what I was when I wanted to be what I am now"

Yeehaw! You did put back the image description under the image and centered it like it has been - THANK YOU! I can live whith that gallery now. ;-) Greets, Jimi

It would be really nice if images that were previously uploaded and activated to receive comments could once again be activated to receive comments.......

I really hope you take away those boxes. The frames and the green colored bars take away my eyes from the image. The former layout was much better in my opinion. The other changes may be good, but the "new look" is not.

I have an 18 inch TFT (1280x1024 pixel) Monitor and the new fontsize is too small. BorisB

I think the "new" look to be too commerical and restrictive in feeling, It detracts from the artwork. AND it is ugly, really, really, ugly. That's my 2cents... Zhann

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

tuttle wrote: << I welcome the anonymous rankings>> Actually, I don't think it's that anonymous. All the information presumably is still there, it's just being hidden from you. And whenever the system changes back, well..., you may catch a few trolls with their pants down ;-)

http://www.roobol.be

"Trolls with their pants down", boy, I really didn't need that mental image...uughh...:/

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Right, I don't want to be responsible for revealing the arses of trolls, so we'll forget all about it! BorisB - I don't think these fonts are css-styled so you should be able to alter the sizing through your browser - /view/text-size for IE.

I don't want to bring up a war, but I felt I needed to answer Xena about how if I don't like it, "I should not look at it." I'm sorry, but this has been bugging me over the weekend. I know I should do this in IM, but I want people to know my position in this whole vendor versus artist thing.

Xena,
I never was against advertising in the galleries with blurbs about the marketplace, I didn't mind pictures being put up to show off stuff in the various galleries, though I agree that full ads are probably best suited for the PSG, but I see no problem with pictures that feature certain products getting a blurb. I'm not against the merchants making money, so I don't exactly know how I became the vendor's enemy in this.

It wasn't about censorship or the right to have your credits. If you had checked my gallery, you would have found out that I credit everything that is used in a picture to great pains, marketplace, other sites, freebies. I have even been known to recommend items in blurbs, without being on anyone's beta testing list. So, please don't throw the censorship flag down on the play because of what you thought I meant. PS: Recommending is not really something you can do in the link system very well.

All I was looking for was a natural progression between picture and description so that the art was prominently featured, not the credits. I have no problem beyond a few aesthetic changes with how it's setup after yesterday's changes. I do think it should be left up to each artist whether they want to provide those links or not or just do the credits in the standard fashion and it shouldn't be mandatory that they do so. To me, the link means an endorsement, which in most cases would be fine, but there are some items I've used in pictures that were a pain in the butt and just because I used them doesn't mean I recommend them. However, like everything else, they do get credits in the picture, as I want no misunderstandings about my work.

So please, don't try to make me out for a troll or something I'm not just because I have some opinions about art versus commercials in the art gallery. Until now, I've been a supporter of your cause, but geesh. Disagree once and you are scum. It's unfair as well since I am a long time customer of the store and spent hundreds of dollars there.

I love Rosity. It's been my home away from home, but does that mean I have to agree with everything they do?

Granted, perhaps I could have worded it better and I am sorry for that, but hindsight is 20/20...

ShadowWind

Sorry for the rant guys...but I don't want people to think I am some kinda censorship evil doer because I'm not.

do not have time to read all . . . unsubscribe!

I, for one, agree with you, ShadowWind. Dialyn said, "I don't understand why you can't still credit free stuff providers and other vendors in the comments area where you tell about your graphic. That's where my old credits still show up....it doesn't seem that big of deal to me. Am I missing something?" I thought about it, and yes, I guess, on one hand, it doesn't matter; you can still put credits in your description area. On the other hand, what's the use of having a separate credits box if you have to enter some of your credits in another area, too? The only reason might be to separate the credits given to the 'Rosity vendors from the rest and to enable people to go shopping. This, in itself, might be good or bad, depending on one's point of view. If one likes to find new items to buy, it's a good idea, though they could just go to the Product Showcase Gallery for this, couldn't they? For others it might mean the commercialization of the galleries. I like dreamsosweet's idea of putting a link to the free stuff providers' artist pages in the credits box besides the links to the merchants.

The only reason might be to separate the credits given to the 'Rosity vendors from the rest and to enable people to go shopping. i think it is distracting. when folks go to look at the "art" in our gallery, they should not be linked into side trips into the market. gallery should be for art, market should be for shopping. as for vendors only being linked in the "credits"...well, it made me upset, but, hey....nothing says i can't upload something into the marketplace so i can be linked as well. and, i bet i am not the only one getting THAT idea....think of it....our already "swell" market can now grow even more with folks like me, who would just like the linking ability. kmart, eat your heart out. r'osity's got you beat 10 fold.

So are we required to credit commercial items now if we post images here? When I purchase something I don't feel I should have to credit it since I already paid for it. It's the merchant's job to promote their products - not mine. I always credit free stuff providers (and I don't find all my freebies at Rosity) because I feel its the least I can do for their allowing me to use their creations for free.

Jade, You donjt have to credit if you dont want to. Clint

Clint Hawkins
MarketPlace Manager/Copyright Agent

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All my life I've been over the top ... I don't know what I'm doing ... All I know is I don't wana stop!
(Zakk Wylde (2007))

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Thank you very much Clint for clarifying that. I'm a happy camper then. Good luck with your remodelling ;)

Allow me to put in a vote for no anon rankings. I agree, too much trolling.

Saw it, hated it, won't use it, removed my gallery. It's that simple. KateTheHippieProtester

oh, kate....i wish i had your guts. that was my first thought, too....then, i second thoughted it and just decided i will upload something to market. after all, i don't have to worry that much about the quality of it...i have a cute little teapot i think i'll sell....just for the privileges, of course.

I guess I'm out of the loop. We have a free gallery that is pretty liberal about what is posted here. We can, or don't have to, give credit to the products we use. We can, or don't have to, allow comments and feedbacks on our graphics. We can, or don't have to, post if we want to. And the people who run Renderosity seem responsive to requests for changes. And once in a great while they like to try something new that doesn't really hurt us or effect our ability to continue to post and we are mad....why? What exactly is being protested here? I didn't get it at the first posting and I don't get it now. I guess I'm dim, and I admit it.

The gallery redesign,(i.e., big boxes, etc.) some feel it's ugly, some think it's great...

Bryce Forum Coordinator....

Vision is the Art of seeing things invisible...

Well, ok, I'll confess, none of my stuff had been viewed in the last 3 months anyway, so it was time to take it all down and start over. I just did it a bit earlier than planned, but don't tell, ok? Kate P.S. I still think the new gallery layout is impossible to read and just flatout ugly since there will always be this really big empty space where the "credits" are supposed to go cuz I don't DO credits (except for freestuff when I remember who made it).

Oh, I get that some people don't like the gallery design, but I don't see the point of getting angry about it. I understand perfectly people giving constructive feedback to to the designers and saying what works and what doesn't work. Not all experiments work. Not all graphics work. That's what trial and error is about. But to get so emotional about this seems just beneath the artists here. I don't like white micropirnt on dark backgrounds, becuase it's impossible to for me to read without the type vibrating and hurting my eyes, but that doesn't keep anyone from using it and if I said I wouldn't visit any site that used it, I would be punishing myself more than the website. It's a matter of keeping things in perspective, I guess. I think we may be headed to war. That seems to me to be something to get emotional about. How they change the galleries is a matter of interest but not great passion. I guess that's just me. I don't really expect anyone to view my stuff on the galleries. I do my own thing and largely get ignored. Oh well. I'm not an artist and my stuff isn't for sale, so I'm not exactly losing anything by not having views. That may be the reason my perspective is different. I understand this important to some people, but give the Renderosity folks a break. I don't think they are purposefully trying to drive away the artists...they are just trying new things to keep the site fresh and keep visitors coming back. I'm sure they appreciate all of you who have given excellent advice to them. I'm just saying it's confusing to me that people got so furious about it.

.."empty space where the "credits" are supposed to go"... It is more revolting than that Kate! If there are no "credits" posted by the artist we are informed that "The artist did not list any additional credits for this item" ( naughty little artists! ). I must admit, I have never thought of my images as items. Kind dialyn! everything you say is very resonable and I can clearly see your point of view. Many artists here work in some kind of design context and know that there are better creative choices to be made to enhance the functionality of Renderosity. What may seem on the face of it to be superficial details are in fact very important issues, otherwise these changes would not have been implemented in the first place. I would never challenge the right of Renderosity to rearrange this site in any manner they see fit. The problem is when the change is presented as one thing and manifests as something other. On your point about revitalising the site to attract more people. Surely it is the work posted that brings in the viewers, not the design of the site. The way the boxy format pushed up against the images was a prime example of why I personally protested against this new format. This is less a war and more of a skirmish in order to make feelings known and negotiate a few compromises, which is the process you are now witnessing. My main income is derived from designing exhibition stands. The most important issue for me and my clients is getting across a clear message that can be scanned by even the most casual passer by. We live in an age of information overload and over design, in most cases it is totally gratuitous and the only reason it is done is because it can be done. The anger expressed by myself and others comes from a feeling that whoever designed the new format? should know better!. Less is more! One last thing patient dialyn. I paid a visit to your gallery. You get far more viewings than myself, however the comments function seems not to be enabled? Regards to all. Brendan.

If I was an artist, the comments would be important to me. I do the graphics for myself and for my friends, and to have a little fun. The comments therefore don't seem to be relevent. I have people who give me feedback on what I could improve and those are often useful. With my amateur status, I don't see any reason to have comments hanging off my graphics. That's just me. I don't expect anyone else to agree.

...." I do my own thing and largely get ignored"... Sorry that I misunderstood that part of your post, dialyn. Cheers!

I see...yes, that was just a statement of fact, not a complaint. I don't expect to be anything but ignored. It's a choice I make. Freedom for me to be largely invisible. If someone made a comment that they liked this or that about my graphic, I might start trying to repeat this or that to get approval again instead of trying something different. I'm weird that way. But I know that's just me and not something anyone else would agree with.