MadYuri opened this issue on Oct 21, 2002 ยท 96 posts
MadYuri posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 3:15 PM
There are several threads which are moved from the Poser Forum into the OT Forum. All those threads are about Poser and possible alternative programs.
I fail to see the reason why those threads are removed from the Poser Forum. I'm very sure that many members of the Poser community are interested in other posing programs.
Maybe the next thread about this theme can remain in the Poser Forum, then nobody would need to start a new one.
Ironbear posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 3:24 PM
Bookmarked.
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Spike posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 5:38 PM
We try to keep the software forums about learning the software. When a thread is about something other than learning, we move it. Any member can freely go to the OT and other forums to read threads as well. Also, the Poser forum gets so many posts, many threads get lost within a few hours.
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
Ironbear posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 5:39 PM
Ummm..... and the other non-learning posts stayed because... ?
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Spike posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 5:47 PM
We left them there just for you. :)
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
Ironbear posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 6:04 PM
Figured as much. On both the "reasons" and the responses. ;] There's just GOT to be a pony around here someplace.
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Questor posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 6:09 PM
Is THAT what I stepped in? I do wish people would house train their pet equus caballus
pete_ posted Mon, 21 October 2002 at 10:35 PM
Hey...I know...maybe if you start it in OT they will move it to the poser forum!! Yeah baby!! ;-)
MadYuri posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 3:36 AM
Spike > We try to keep the software forums about learning the software. When a thread is about something other than learning, we move it.
Err, huh?
Since when is the Poser forum only for learning posts? There are posts about motion capture software, poser utilities, freestuff announcements, vendor bashing and plain silly posts. The moved posts have at least the same right to be in the Poser forum then fifty percent of the other posts.
I see no reason to move those posts other then eager complaisance with CuriousLabs. If that is not the sole reason to move those posts, then I really want to know it. Maybe I can learn something.
x2000 posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 6:54 AM
I told you it's all a matter of how many commas the thread contains, but nobody ever listens to me...
KateTheShrew posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 11:25 AM
Are you sure it's commas? I was under the impression it was semicolons. Wow, ya learn something new every day...
dialyn posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 11:34 AM
Dots. It's definitely dots. Just ask Pete. But I think it has more to do with the fact that there are so many messages that the moderators can't read them all (they do have other lives, afterall) and maybe until someone on the list brings a thread to their attention, they don't notice a thread has gone off track. That's taking a mighty high road, which won't be appreciated, but that could be part of it (not the whole...I have no idea what politics are involved here). I realize that doesn't make anyone happy, but, when a thread is moved or locked, it may very well be a non-moderator that caused its journey or caused the thread to be shut down. I asked a moderator and that's what they told me. I'm not into conspiracy theories so I'm taking them at their word. Of course I could just be kissing up to Spike because I'm hoping he looks like James Marsters. :)
MadYuri posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 12:00 PM
dialyn > ...and maybe until someone on the list brings a thread to their attention... Yep, somebody brings every thread about a Poser competitor to their attention and then they move it every time.
dialyn posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 12:03 PM
I was actually referencing non-Poser and non-competitor threads that have shown up in the forum and stayed there...the place a dot on the map thread, for example, which is non-controversial and non-Poser related, as far as I can tell. It's getting quite long and so far hasn't been moved to the OT forum, unless it was recently. I knew a response running counter to the conspiracy theory wouldn't be popular, but then I was only suggesting an alternative line of thought, not the answer.
MadYuri posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 12:24 PM
Conspiracy is a very big word.
But I'm not sure about the reasoning behind the thread movement. That's why I'm asking.
dialyn posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 12:30 PM
Understood. I find some of the thread moves mysterious myself, but then I'm not in the inner circle of making decisions. Heck, I'm not even on the outer circle. I'm still trying to figure out the dot on the map thread is so darn popular. Guess it would help if I actually read the thread.
x2000 posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 12:31 PM
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, OT, here we come! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
pete_ posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 12:58 PM
............coming soon.......yup..........heard a rumor that metacreations is on a fast comeback.........hoooey! .................. See.....that's all you need........lots'a dots and some versatile "imagination" ;-)
MikeJ posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 1:17 PM
I feel it's safe to say that having CL as a site sponsor is a good thing in the eyes of the Renderosity PTB. I think it's equally safe to say that anything anti-CL, or that which competes, will be moved from any place of prominence such as the Poser Forum. It's simple business, really, like you won't see a Burger King poster hanging in a McDonald's. Can't say I blame them any, but it's kinda strange the way things are handled around here like there's some big secret that this is all a business venture.
Spike posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 1:21 PM
No realy, we moved it just so IB would be happy.
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
MadYuri posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 2:37 PM
MikeJ > I think it's equally safe to say that anything anti-CL, or that which competes, will be moved from any place of prominence such as the Poser Forum.
Funny thing, that is not true. There are still lots of anti-CL threads in the Poser Forum. Maybe dialyn is right and the PTB did miss them. ;)
Spike > No realy, we moved it just so IB would be happy.
Well, I'm not IB and not happy either.
Spike posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 3:34 PM
We don't care if a post or thread is Anti-CL, if it has nothing to do with Poser learning, and we spot it, we will move it as needed.
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
MadYuri posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 4:25 PM
Err...
Sometimes I just search some words on goggle. Sometimes I find very astounding things.
MadYuri posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 4:27 PM
Sometimes I use the word sometimes some times too often.
pete_ posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 6:19 PM
Instant breakfast? Incredible blimp? Inspirational breasts? Informal bullshit? Insane banners? Oh...I know...secret code between you and MadYuri...oh, hohoho!!....snicker...(I smell hidden meanings...)...
Legume posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 7:42 PM
It's a community, a family, it's a big group hug. Now let's all hold hands and sing about Coca-Cola.
pete_ posted Tue, 22 October 2002 at 7:48 PM
It's a Pepsi Generation...get it right! (any wonder folks get all huffy with any competition...most of us are baby boomers and been through this before...remember?)...oh...so many times...but it all works out ya know...the more...the less chance of monopoly and cockyism...the more chance of product effeciency...and maybe taste tests? (next poser version)....and also the more likely we WILL have a community, a family, a big group hug......hey!...it's a poser generation!!
Legume posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 1:28 AM
Pete, you've been all over this site posting all sorts of wild rants. But goddamnit, you've rankled the living shit out of ME this time. THERE'S NO SUCH GODDAMNED WORD AS "COCKYISM", PETER! "we WILL have a community, a family, a big group hug..." I don't care if Poser 6 is the greatest software since Moses released "Commandments 10", you don't have the chance of a paper dog chasing an asbestos cat through Hell of EVER getting ol' Doc Legume in a group hug with some of the whackjobs around here.
KateTheShrew posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 2:46 AM
::: Hugs Legume and runs for the hills ::: hehe... it was a runby hugging...
pete_ posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 5:05 AM
You should know by now I make up my own words as I go along Legume....just like you change the face, (and color), of poserdom forever and hey...'whackjobs'??....your just as bad as me....LOL!!
x2000 posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 7:35 AM
Only "some" of the whackjobs, Legume?
Legume posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 10:48 AM
Well, x2000, some of the female whackjobs might still be huggable...I'll have to go through the mebers gallery and weed out the ugly ones... (The eyes of a hundred angry forum gals lock on Legume as he slips into his old army helmet and flak jacket and prepares to dive into the foxhole)
-Klaus posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 11:40 AM
Weed out nothing.
Ironbear posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 5:49 PM
"No realy, we moved it just so IB would be happy. " - Spike. You wanna make me happy, set me up with a tall curvacious brunette. Prefferably female. If you're trying to do it by moving threads, I have other suggestions for yas. ;] Heh heh... I did read the "We don't care if a post or thread is Anti-CL, if it has nothing to do with Poser learning, and we spot it, we will move it as needed.", and I still think with all that manure, there's got to be a pony around here someplace. ;]
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Questor posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 6:10 PM
I'm going to glue feathers onto myself, sit on a perch and pretend I'm a parrot. I agree with Ironbear... again. (as well as several other people) There's a plethora (cool word huh?) of posts in the Poser forum that have got squat to do with "Poser learning" absolutely bugger all to do with learning of any kind least of all Poser. They aren't moved. Hey, there's even some in there that have nothing to do with Poser even. Yet they stayed. So, Spike, a word of advice you won't heed and will probably ignore anyway. Cut the bullshit will you? Or find a different tune to play because you're looking pretty dippy up there with those comments. Alternatively you COULD go through poser forum and remove ALL the NON LEARNING threads. Should make the place much easier to navigate. After all, with most of the non-learning threads gone, the place will be virtually empty. Non learning my ass. Selective deletion and transfer is what it is. "Oh, don't like that, dump it in OT". Just like it used to be a while back when it was "Don't like that, dump it in C&D" Sheesh.
JeffH posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 6:28 PM
Questor,
There's not enough time in a day to move all the crap I'd like to.
I have to break it down to which threads have the biggest moron-factor going on and boot those.
You seem to have alot of free time, start compiling a list of OT threads and maybe I'll get to it some day.
-JH.
Questor posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 6:41 PM
Jeff, I can understand that YOU don't have enough time to move all the "crap" you'd like to. Strange though it may seem I'm not picking on you. I was very much under the impression that was why there was more than one mod in the forum. Perhaps there should be a standard written out for all moderators to follow so that one person doesn't have to take the heat and you won't be left on your own to decide what's relevant and what isn't. You have my sympathy Jeff, it's not an easy job you do, but there's a double standard here and while it may not be of your making, the excuses from certain individuals are getting thin. Sorry old chap, like I said, not picking on you as an individual but on the event as a whole. :) I have a lot of free time yes. I can't work, that's why. But, sorry, I'm not going to do your or the other Poser Forum moderator's jobs for you, you guys get paid to be there, I'm doing this out of my own expenses. Thanks for the offer though, but it's not my responsibility. Is it?
ScottA posted Wed, 23 October 2002 at 11:12 PM
Hehehehehehe. There's nothing on earth more hated than a Poser Forum moderator. I guess I quit just at the right time. ;-) I feel really bad for you Jeff. You know why I left and all. But I do feel guilty for leaving you behind to handle this mess. When I left. Things were fairly calm. And I wasn't really needed anyway. ScottA
MadYuri posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 3:53 AM
Well... I did know that it was quite pointless to ask this question. So I can only blame myself for the answers I got. :P Lets approach this from another angle. Speaking of improvements, there are three other things I'd like to have.
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 8:23 AM
"We try to keep the software forums about learning the software. When a thread is about something other than learning, we move it. " That's a joke right? Because it surely isn't even close to being the truth. Why not just give an honest answer about this - it would be a refreshing change from the dogma usually handed out. Also could you explain the criteria for "biggest moron-factor"? as often times some of the commentary and actions from the moderators seem to qualify as well. This would also assist those "forum snitches" who scream to the mods about threads in knowing exactly which ones they should complain about. "There's nothing on earth more hated than a Poser Forum moderator." That's not true everywhere else Scott, and I would know having been a Poser moderator elsewhere, it seems to be more specific to poser moderators here. But according to the "explanation" since the moderator's don't have time to read all the posts and move those of a non-learning variety - if I spend a few minutes in the Poser Forum and send you a list of say 50 threads that are not related to learning the software, I will see them moved to OT as quickly as the previous ones were moved right??
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
JeffH posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 10:38 AM
What people think about the Poser Moderators doesn't concern me much.
What I care about is helping those that need it. Having to actually "moderate" is extra baggage I can do without most of the time.
If I never had to move another thread it would be great, but we all know how much respect is shown for those just trying to learn the software right?
It seems the freedom to post any sort of subject there is more important than doing the correct thing and posting to OT or News & Team Contact. That's selfish IMO.
-Jeff
dialyn posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 10:57 AM
Perhaps there needs to be a split in the forums...a Tips and Learning forum for people posting Poser information that can actually be used to help each other learn and grow in their abilities using the software; and a forum for other topics vaguely related to Poser but not particularly informational where the community chat and Poser complaints and "fun stuff" (like the dots on the map and alien cats) can be posted. Off topic as a title seems to be the problem...I do think threads having nothing to do with Poser should be moved more expediently, but I don't think the moderators can be aware of every single posting that is made and responsible community members who are aware of a thread drift should be letting the moderators know (and I don't think helping keep forums on track is "snitching"...that's just ridiculous).
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:11 AM
"It seems the freedom to post any sort of subject there is more important than doing the correct thing and posting to OT or News & Team Contact. That's selfish IMO." Nothing anywhere states that the Poser Forum (or any software forum) here is specifically aimed towards the learning process and not discussions regarding Poser itself. Nor are we talking about posting "any topic" there -0 but moving a topic that was in regards to Poser. Considering that you will posts that are non-learning related if pointed out "when you get to it" show that there is a definite priority in regards to moving this threads. I wonder how many of the non-learning threads in the Poser forum have actually been posted to by moderators?? To move posts that do discuss Poser to the OT forum while leaving ones regarding dot maps and other such non-learning threads shows serious biasness IMO
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:17 AM
"(and I don't think helping keep forums on track is "snitching"...that's just ridiculous)." It was meant as a tongue in cheek joke since the moderators want others to tell them about the posts. If moving posts is important it should be done fairly by the moderators who get paid to do it.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
MadYuri posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:23 AM
JeffH > It seems the freedom to post any sort of subject there is more important than doing the correct thing and posting to OT or News & Team Contact. That's selfish IMO.
It's ok if threads which have no relation to Poser are moved into the OT Forum. There are lots of threads in the Poser Forum which shouldn't be there.
But the three moved thread do concern Poser and its users. If there are alternatives to Poser most Poser users want to know about them. Do you want to know why? Because Poser is just a tool, and there is always the possibility that there is a better tool. People use Poser because they want to do art or illustrations or web graphics. Poser is just the means to that end. You don't do those people a favour if you shield them from Poser alternatives.
Let's speculate...
DAZ releases a 3D animation and rendering system which can substitute Poser... This program can use or import Poser models... Will any mention of this program in the Poser Forum moved to OT?
BTW is being selfish against the TOS now? I better go read it again.
Questor posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:35 AM
Having to actually "moderate" is extra baggage I can do without most of the time. This is going to sound like a stupid question but it has to be asked. Why are you a moderator then? You can "help" people quite easily without the "extra baggage" as you put it. Surely if it's such a strain for you it would be better if you just helped and gave up being a moderator. Just a suggestion. ***It seems the freedom to post any sort of subject there is more important than doing the correct thing *** You're getting quite liberal with your statements here - like calling everyone in the Daz thread a moron, but I'm sure you have a reason for it. Perhaps to some yes it is more important to post what they want in the Poser forum to talk with their online buddies - same as it was when C&D existed and most people avoided that like the plague. But not to everybody. I don't see how a discussion about a company that produced the Poser 4 people and a hell of a lot of content for poser and their imminent future is OFF TOPIC for POSER - they are STILL a major contributor of Poser content. The only thing that has changed is that they are allegedly to become direct competitors with the partnerer company of this site. Yet, stamps, dots, cats, dogs, people's bowel movements are not off topic? Even though they're clearly titled and obviously off-topic. So you're busy. So you're really really bored with things you don't like. So it's all just too much extra baggage. OK, do the decent thing, do yourself a favour and do what you do best. Help people. Leave the moderating to people who don't see being moderator as "extra baggage they can do without" Might want to alter the TOS as well. To clearly state that ALL software forums are for LEARNING ONLY discussions and everything else is to go into OT. Might help clear up things a bit don't you think?
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:44 AM
Since reporting non-learning threads is a request of the moderators here's a partial list: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=925350 http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=924868 http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=925412 http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=924849 (about the platinum club - not learning) http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=925299 http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=925069 http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=923771 http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=923718 http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=921929 Not to mention the innumerable "where can I find ...." posts which do not deal with learning. This is in the first 29 posts. Now that you have a list I would expect these posts to be moved before they are old news and that moving them will receive the same priority that a Poser Post complaining about CL would be moved.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
JeffH posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:46 AM
"This is going to sound like a stupid question" Okay, I won't address it then. -J. Back to work...
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:53 AM
Franky I don't think it is stupid - you just said you don't want to have to actually moderate the forums - but yet you seem to be happy to get paid to do so. Seems odd....
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
CyberStretch posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:55 AM
How about adding a Flag (or sorts) that forum members could check off when reading threads that would state that the post is OT (or whatever) for mod intervention? This should be fairly easy to do (add one checkbox) and R'osity could be absolved of the responsibility of moving the thread if a certain threshhold (say, 10% of current members or 20+ readers) voted to move the thread. In this technological age, I am quite surprised that the technology is not use to its utmost efficiency. Things always seem to revert to "lower tech" alternatives when simplistic changes could be made that would resolve the issue quite nicely.
Questor posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 11:58 AM
Okay, I won't address it then* Par for the course and about what I expected from you.
JeffH posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 12:23 PM
I work on the Poser board for free. I'm a big fan of the software.
I also think the poser community is great, but that opinion is changing thread by thread.
-Jeff
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 12:58 PM
Ah well then - my mistake - but if you truly dislike actually "moderating" why do it? There are plenty of ways to give back to community and help people learn without being a moderator.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
CyberStretch posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 1:08 PM
"I'm a big fan of the software." And, hence, the biased opinion on which posts to move/delete? The position of being a moderator is to take the neutral ground and allow all sides equal representation. If there is bias one way or the other, then it is not moderating.
JeffH posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 1:22 PM
The Poser Forum is software specific and geared mainly towards learning that software.
Yes, I am biased towards learning over everything else.
CyberStretch posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 2:15 PM
Then, what did we learn by kupa's "Send stamps to my kid" post? or "California Dreaming"? Or "Dot on the Map"? That reasoning does not hold up for the myriad of posts that are allowed to remain vs the ones that are moved. Is it not "learning" when somone brings forth information about another application that may be of interest to the Poser members? After all, another application can enhance the features in Poser as well as replace them. If not, then why are all of the "utility" applications allowed to be posted, when they are not about "learning" the application, but circumventing some of the issues inherent in the application?
JeffH posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 3:23 PM
If you were really interested, I would tell you all about the concepts of "Community", but you're not so I won't.
CyberStretch posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 5:03 PM
Community is not * Segregating one portion of the populace over the preference for another. * Applying terms and conditions unevenly amongst the populace. * Taking sides one way or the other, when you are supposed to be a neutral party. Do we need more examples? I am, however, sincerely interested in your definition, and that of anyone else, in which the current discussion fits into the concept of how it is best for the community.
JeffH posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 6:32 PM
Since none of that is happening here what's your point?
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 6:34 PM
So Jeff are the posts I listed going to be moved or not? "If you were really interested, I would tell you all about the concepts of "Community", but you're not so I won't." If you think what you are currently doing is "community" work then you aren't teh one to explain it. First you state that only learning posts are allowed in the Poser forum - you refuse to address the issues of all the other non-learning posts. Something you left yourself - adn other moderators wide open to deal with. Then you say that posts are moved based on a "moron factor". So tell us the truth - exactly why are they moved? Or is it more of the "this thread isn't going anywhere" (in your own personal opinion of course), type of ruling to move the threads?
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
Questor posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 6:41 PM
Silvermage: Unless of course he's just not big enough to admit that. *** I'm a big fan of the software*** Influenced his decision because he was sick of seeing Curious Labs and Poser bashing threads. He did say somewhere in the poser forum that he was fed up with it all. Maybe that's it. But unlike some he'd rather obfuscate with meaningless statements than admit to having done it in a fit of pique - something many of us here could easily understand and perhaps sympathise with. This is of course purely conjecture seeing as the chances of actually getting a straight or honest answer out of Jeff are absolutely ZERO. Oh well, just more typical toe the party line crap at the big R. Ho hum.
JeffH posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 7:02 PM
"conjecture" There's alot of that going on isn't it? -J.
3-DArena posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 7:08 PM
only because no one answers the straight questions with a straight answer. If the truth was that threads were moved due to "non-learning" status then someone would have moved the threads I listed above. But that hasn't been done so the the non-learning explanation was obviously untrue.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
Questor posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 7:53 PM
So what precisely do you expect Jeff? Huh? Really? Your happy horse manure answers are meaningless tripe that have no intrinsic use to this thread or any of the questions that have been brought up. I have no doubt you find your answers to be witty and clever but quite frankly as a representative of this site your hurting it with your transparent obfuscation and rhetoric. Perhaps if you aren't prepared to answer questions directed at you, you should desist in making ambiguous statements. But no, why spoil the habit of a lifetime. After all your "moron element" crack earlier in this thread is very similar to another crack you made about people right back at the site wars when R split. Some people just never change their spots do they? So either answer the questions that have been asked as a direct result of your statements, or go talk to your masters and see what is to be done to restrict the damage you are doing to the credibility of this site and it's management. While you're talking to them, you'd better explain how you've changed site policy regarding the forums all on your little lonesome and that they'd better ammend the TOS for the forums accordingly. So that everyone knows it's "Learning posts only" in the fora, and everything else in OT. Sure would do OT a favour and make it a hell of a lot busier.
Ironbear posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 7:54 PM
""conjecture" There's alot of that going on isn't it? -J." So eliminate the conjecture. If you're not capable of providing an answer to the questions being asked, have Tammy or another admin who's capable of doing so address them. A refresher list: Community Moron-factor Learning oriented threads Non-learning oriented I'm not going to claim it's a stupid question because I don't think that it is: "Having to actually "moderate" is extra baggage I can do without most of the time" Then why are you accepting pay to do it?
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
FyreSpiryt posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 9:33 PM
CyberStretch: Community is not * Segregating one portion of the populace over the preference for another. * Applying terms and conditions unevenly amongst the populace. * Taking sides one way or the other, when you are supposed to be a neutral party. JeffH: Since none of that is happening here what's your point? and "conjecture" There's alot of that going on isn't it? I don't know about 'Stretch, but here's my points. 1) The most important point that to many of us these things do appear to be happening. 2) Conjecture is necessary since you seem to be refusing to give us any facts. 3) Just a reminder, we ARE the community. A community is not a website or a forum; it's the people who come there and participate. 4) The community wants to know what the hell is going on around here. 5) I have lost a lot of respect for you in the 10 minutes it took me to read this string. You sound like a jerk with delusions of grandeur who is on a power trip. However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Jeff, you are obviously burnt out. You need to take a hiatus for your own good, because you're making it obvious that you really can't handle the stress of this right now. 6) Has anyone gone over Jeff's head to the admins and asked them to intervene and possibly give Jeff a hiatus if they decide he also needs one and he doesn't take it himself? I will if desired, but frankly, I've been ignored the time or two I've contacted an admin.
FyreSpiryt posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 9:34 PM
Aw, crap, forgot an end italic tag. Man, what I wouldn't give for an edit function. :P
pete_ posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 9:40 PM
[Then why are you accepting pay to do it?]... Yes ladies and gentlemen, they actually 'DO' get paid to do this "now"...(here)...so don't let em pull your leg and say they don't...like they're doing us a big wumpum favor being here modding out of wholsesome love and goodwill for the membership and community spirit thingy... ...hell...be nice if there was a little more of that...maybe these places wouldn't be so damn cold and frigid a lot of times towards it's bloodlife....the 'members'...the essence that knits the community together and keeps it a sweater rather than just a raggedy old towel falling apart...
pete_ posted Thu, 24 October 2002 at 9:55 PM
...Just to itterate...I'm not suggesting everyone is that way here...but this thread sucks with attitude...lately a lot of forums seem to suck with attitude...bad attitude...and I am sad that this attitude seems to come from too often from some of those that should be a LOT more respectable and thankful for their position and the clairvoyance they have with their particular community...rather than try to make their membership sound like a bunch hoohaaw's that just come to yank their jollies or what pocket change they may be worth maybe a very signifigant fact is too much forgotten in the highbrow moments...'MEMBERS mean EXISTENCE'......sustenance.....'members' make a community what it is...
fur posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 7:57 AM
Prior to this fix, if you attempted to access a thread that's been moved it used to erroneously say it had been deleted. Now with the fix in place, it will inform you it has been moved and give you a link to continue on to the new forum where you can read the original message. R
dialyn posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 8:03 AM
R--That is a nice improvement. I know that doesn't answer the questions about which threads get moved and which threads don't, but it will be a helpful change for finding threads wherever they go to. Thank you.
JeffH posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 8:26 AM
IB says without reading first:
"Then why are you accepting pay to do it?"
I told you people ignore what I say :-)
-Jeff
dialyn posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 8:38 AM
It doesn't count for anything, but I read from you that you aren't getting paid. Then someone wrote not to believe that. It really doesn't matter what the truth is, Jeff....perception overwhelmes all. And perhaps the inclination to try to make light of what is an emotionally charged issue is not helping...just a thought, meaningless. Poof.
JeffH posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 9:00 AM
"perception overwhelmes all"
Maybe that's the real problem, no one bothers to learn the facts before they speak.
Questor posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 9:01 AM
The majority of moderators on this site are paid for their services - not a lot, but they are paid. If you are an exception to that norm Jeff, then fair enough, but moderators tend to get lumped into the general group of "Moderators" and moderators on Renderosity receive payment for what they do. In store credit, cheque or whatever other means are agreed upon with the PTB. Same with admin and other staff here. Perhaps Ironbear did read what you say but chose to believe the majority rule rather than the reasons you flippantly threw into this thread.
JeffH posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 9:20 AM
Our Moderators are basically compensated volunteers with a passion for their given subject.
They deserve better treatment than they get from the membership because they really are doing it for the community and not the paycheck.
Questor posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 10:24 AM
I agree they do deserve better treatment SO DO THE MEMBERS OF THIS SITE Without the members all you moderators become immediately redundant. You'd just be sitting around here doing sweet FA. You treat the members better and stop bullshitting them and maybe you will get better treatment. But I suppose that little piece of logic is too much of a stretch for you.
dialyn posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 10:50 AM
Respect on both sides would help...I know everyone is upset and has gotten an emotional investment in making their point, but I'm not sure it's solving any problems to be casting dispersions against each other. I also don't think you can lump all the moderators together...they each have a different style and approach to dealing with their respective forums and assignments. I've gotten some very good responses when I've requested information directly from one moderator or the other. I hope my experience isn't unusual.
Spike posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 10:53 AM
Well said dialyn!
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
Questor posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:16 AM
Dialyn: You're right, there are some moderators here who do a sterling job, Crescent for example and a few others. But there is always one who decides he's funny and won't talk normally, rather just making blind comments and sweeping statements while smirking at his cleverness. Jeff has revealed himself to be one of those. My dislike of his behaviour in this thread doesn't alter my opinion of the moderators here who do show respect and are "up-front". My opinion of at least one moderator here though has undergone major revision. Yes, respect works both ways, it's always been a two way street. You can't get what you don't give. But I refuse to give what isn't earned and especially when everything is treated with contempt and flippancy. Take Spike for example. His responses to the majority of threads is one line. "We're dealing with this" or something similar. There's a reason I don't take off after him for not answering a question with a straight answer. That reason is simple. While I might not like that kind of answer I appreciate that Spike is busy and has a lot on his plate. So, I don't snipe at him (very often) and I don't make an endless point of it. He has a job to do and mostly does it pretty well. A pity that others don't set their own examples by people like crescent and others here. But would rather gratuitously label people in general as morons, blocks of unclarified messages as crap, and claim it's all "so much extra baggage". I expect that sort of nonsense from an ordinary member who has little or nothing to lose, not from an "official", a representative of this site. That's something else entirely. If jeff has such contempt for the members of this site then perhaps he should take a break or move on to something that isn't such a terrible burden.
ScottA posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 12:10 PM
Ugh! Jeff. This is not how the majority of the members feel about you. The older wiser members appreciate your efforts more than the newbies that blow in here and act as if they know it all. Don't let them drag you down to their level. ScottA
Questor posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 12:27 PM
Don't let them drag you down to their level. I'm more concerned with him dragging people down to his level. What a fine example to set to newbies isn't it? Flippancy, contempt, obfuscation and meaningless rhetoric. No wonder so many threads have irrelevant or controversial comments in them when this is the example set by "respected old timers". Phah!
3-DArena posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 12:34 PM
"Respect on both sides would help...I know everyone is upset and has gotten an emotional investment in making their point, but I'm not sure it's solving any problems to be casting dispersions against each other." Dialyn you are correct but we would also expect the moderators to be respectful in return. This thread began as an honest and respectful question to the moderators. It was answered with what is perceived to be a lie. Spike:"We try to keep the software forums about learning the software. When a thread is about something other than learning, we move it." For those of us who have been around for a long time we know this answer can't possibly be the truth. If it were true then the threads I posted above would have been moved as they are definitely off topic for the Poser forum and not about learning. Lying and patronizing are not respectful. This was made further obvious by Jeffh's response: "There's not enough time in a day to move all the crap I'd like to. I have to break it down to which threads have the biggest moron-factor going on and boot those. You seem to have alot of free time, start compiling a list of OT threads and maybe I'll get to it some day. -JH." Referring to a moron-factor (and nope there is no smiley face there) and implying that others do his work and then maybe he'll get to it some day is also offensive and rude. - Certainly not respectful and most definitely not an answer. And ScottA:"The older wiser members appreciate your efforts more than the newbies that blow in here and act as if they know it all." Isn't actually true - the ones who seem to think the rude behaviour and refusal to answer a straight forward question is ok - are the newbies. As for dragging anyone down to alevel - may I never be on a level so low that I feel that a direct, honest answer is the wrong step to take when dealing with anyone who has approached in a respectful and honestly enquiring manner.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
JeffH posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 12:38 PM
All of the admins are busy Questor, including myself.
I don't mind answering questions if my answer is really what you're after. You and others have proven it is not.
With me, what you see is what you get and I tend not to sugar-coat my statements.
As a Moderator of the Poser Forum I'll do whatever it takes to maintain a balance of Learning and Community interaction without disruption. If that means moving threads that's what I will do. This will not change.
DAZ and Curious Labs are welcome there including their respective supporters and detractors who choose to behave in a civil manner.
-Jeff
PS: Scott, you have a good point.
3-DArena posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 12:49 PM
"I don't mind answering questions if my answer is really what you're after. You and others have proven it is not." Jeff I'd actually like a real answer to this. The threads that were moved didn't disrupt the Poser forum - no more than a dot the map, Judy is butt ugly or wav file thread did. I for one don't want a sugar coated reply I want to see where moving these threads were part of a rule that stated they should be moved or an honest reply as to why they are being moved in the first place. You can not simply say you moved a thread because of a moron-factor; after all the threads may have pertained to and concerned others with like thoughts. By stating what you did you are saying that you are deciding who will be heard in the Poser forum and who will be relegated to the OT forum. That is not "community". If the real reason is that the threads are anti-learning then a statement declaring "the software forums are all for learning only posts" should be made and adhered to.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
Spike posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 1:10 PM
LadySilverMage, I am not realy sure what I did to start you down this path of anti-Spike. You asked and I gave you a reply that was and is 100%. We "try" to keep the software forums about learning the software. When a thread is about something other than learning, we move it. The key word here is "TRY". As you all know, we have many thing to do in a day and there is no way we can cover 100% of all the posts to the site. Questor, Thanks for understand This thread can go on for days if you all like, but The more time we spend in here saying the same thing, the less time we have to do other work. Lets all just drop this and get on to better things. In the light of world events, this seems prety much like a joke that we are fighting over something like this. Come on, think about it, "Moved threads"
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
3-DArena posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 1:19 PM
"I am not realy sure what I did to start you down this path of anti-Spike. You asked and I gave you a reply that was and is 100%." I am not anti-spike or anti-JeffH, I can honestly say there are maybe 3 individuals in all of Poserdom that I am actually "anti". There are several here posting that do have experience in moderating forums ()and Poser forums no less) - probably why we are so anoyed by this. The key word here is "TRY". As you all know, we have many thing to do in a day and there is no way we can cover 100% of all the posts to the site". But come on - the threads I posted above were in the first 29 threads in the Poser Forum when I went there - and that didn't include the multitude of "where can I find..." so it's hard to see how they could be missed. Frankly I would rather be online now then listening to the news - my daughter has frankly been terrified enough by the sniper and having her school on lock down the past 2 weeks that it's nice to have no tv on (the kids are home today) and time to take our minds off of it.
3-D Arena | Instagram | Facebook
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same
God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has
intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo
Questor posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 1:31 PM
World events are world events and as such are relegated to the Off Topic forum or email, real life or other places where such discussions are encouraged. Concerns raised here have to do with the Poser forum and a poser moderator in particular and as such are relevant to the way the members may be perceived to be allowed to act in that forum and the actions that may be randomly taken upon them by someone on a hissy fit power trip. The TOS is one thing, most try to abide by that, Moderator judgement calls are another and mostly they too are accepted on face value. Bullshit, rhetoric, lies are not. Sorry Spike, I'd love to agree with you on this, but the questions raised in this thread have not been answered and Jeff has been getting more and more evasive and insulting all the way through it, then pretends innocence when called on it. If he's so frelling busy, why are there so many flippant and meaningless responses from him in this thread? And if it's such a damn burden having to deal with so much crap and so many morons, why the heck is he doing it? Surely this could all have been prevented if he'd be honest and straight from the start? But no, he has to play the martyr. "I don't mind answering questions if my answer is really what you're after. You and others have proven it is not. What question did you actually answer that had an answer that anybody actually either understood or that wasn't insulting or evasive? You haven't answered squat so how the hell would you know what I and others are after. Your full of something Jeff, something it's against TOS for me to mention you're full of, and it's getting very tiresome. The person in this thread isn't the same JeffH who used to share freebies and help newbies, so don't pretend it is. The w****r in here is nothing more than an arrogant slob crazed on his own self importance and imagined wit. Grow up, answer the questions that have been fielded to you WITH STRAIGHT ANSWERS not stupid remarks and insults, and you might be surprised that people WILL treat you with some respect. So far you've shown nothing but contempt and seem surprised when it's returned to you.
ScottA posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 1:32 PM
The answer she is looking for is this Spike: "We apologize that we are not as good at moderating the Poser Forum as LadySilverMage. We will strive to do our best to be as good as her someday. Until then. Please bear with out innept attempts at running the forum". Signed, Spike & JeffH. I know it sounds like I'm starting trouble with you Lady. But seriously. What other reply would make you stop? They don't do things like you would do it. What else do you want them to say? There's no real answer to your question other than to say you prefer to do things differently. ScottA P.S.- For those of you playing the Home Game out there. I will now get an emmotional reply from Lady calling me all kinds of names and telling me how evil I am. ;-)
Spike posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 1:38 PM
WOW! Sounds like Spike should just walk away from this while he can. If you all have a problem with a mod or admin, please contact Tammy via e-mail and she will help resolve this issue. Send it to: admin@renderosity.com Att: Tammy
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
Questor posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 1:44 PM
Scott: Most of us already know how evil you are. You've been a pod person for ages. LOL Spike. Thanks. I did contact Tammy and pointed her to this thread. Not sure if I can post her response here but contacting her patently hasn't had a blind bit of effect on his behaviour when he quite frankly has been misbehaving rather horribly and fielding generalised insults at the members.
Spike posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 1:46 PM
Cross post there Scott but ok...
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
JeffH posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 2:46 PM
Questor,
"Your full of something Jeff, something it's against TOS for me to mention you're full of, and it's getting very tiresome. The person in this thread isn't the same JeffH who used to share freebies and help newbies, so don't pretend it is. The w****r in here is nothing more than an arrogant slob crazed on his own self importance and imagined wit. Grow up,
answer the questions that have been fielded to you WITH STRAIGHT ANSWERS not stupid remarks and insults, and you might be surprised that people WILL treat you with some respect. So far you've shown nothing but contempt and seem surprised when it's returned to you."
As far as I'm concerned this is a personal attack and I'm warning you offically not to violate the TOS in this manner.
If you need a second warning another admin will handle it.
-JeffH.
Questor posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 2:57 PM
Fine suits me, don't forget to warn yourself for calling forum members MORONS and that they write loads of CRAP for you to sort out, which creates BAGGAGE you can do without. I don't care if you "consider" it a personal attack. Let me clear that up for you. It WAS. :) Ban me, I could give a damn right now. It'd just prove some of my suspicions about this place and you in particular. Do you need an excuse? I'll be happy to give you one. Surely your erroneous claim on "tagging" should be sufficient.
Spike posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 3:00 PM
Ok, All that are involved, Please step back from this thread. It's just not worth it! Do it for me, Please...
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour
Spike posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 3:01 PM
On second thought, this thread is going nowhere fast... Locked
You can't call it work if you love
it... Zen
Tambour