DefaultGuy opened this issue on Oct 25, 2002 ยท 68 posts
DefaultGuy posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 9:02 PM
Hi Renderosity community, The SR2-2 Beta release is now available for download at http://www.curiouslabs.com/go/sr2beta Please follow the updater instructions and view the readme.txt before installing the updater. These are the areas that were fixed in this SR2-2 beta patch: - Reduced memory requirements for rendering. - Implemented several rendering accelerations. - Canceling the render before shadows finish will no longer crash (bug introduced in SR1) - Opening previously closed Libraries palette now works correctly when exiting the Materials room. - Added UNDO functionality when moving feature points in the Face room. - Fixed pasting and applying nodes in the Materials room. - Fixed crosstalk between multiple figures when reading a pose file which had body parts not on the current figure - Reverting the scene now resets the Cloth room as well. - Fixed an ignore actor issue in the Cloth room. - Adjusted alpha map output. - Added Will & Penny morphs to the Face room. - By default, backface culling is no longer active. - Backface cull is less necessary now, and will not give good results when rendering tranpsarent objects. - Fixed occasional changing of actor names in the Properties/Parameters palette (The Left Shin Camera bug). - Cannot delete root Atmosphere node anymore. - Gel maps and shadow map scaling now work correctly. - Disabled screensavers when rendering AVIs. - Fixed upside-down copying/pasting when using the FireFly renderer. - Fixed transparency falloff settings when importing Poser 4 (or earlier) content. - Fixed scale zones bug introduced in SR1. - Fixed a crash with the mouse wheel in Windows 98/ME. - Pressing [CTRL]+[SHIFT] while clicking now deselects selected parameter in the Parameters palette. - Fixed forced power of 2 texture scaling and improved other texture scaling functions for improved image quality when rendering. - Fixed an occassional redraw of the Document window immediately following a render. - Fixed several large memory allocations during rendering and when looking for missing textures. - Updated default Face room textures to better match the figure texture. - Ray traced shadows now properly appear in reflections. - Objects set to not cast shadows no longer cast shadows in ray tracing. - Activated Depth Cue and Atmospheric rendering capabilities as a new object selection in the material room. - Speeded up checking for possibility of transparency in ray traced shadows. - Further speed improvements when rendering. - 0 length hairs are no longer generated into the rendering engine, eliminating a crash. - Poser will no longer incorrectly detect an insufficient disk space situation. - Resizing the render window while rendering no longer causes application/window errors. - Fixed crashes with textures larger than 4K by automatically scaling them down to 4K. - Importing 3DS models with 0 length polygons no longer causes a crash. - Vertex groups now display correctly in orthogonal cameras. - Fixed possible divide by zero error (renderer) - Fixed crashes when reading empty shader trees in material libraries. - Fixed an XML problem in the Render Options dialog where the Render Now button wasn't the right size. - Fixed a crash that occurred when users reduced the number of frames in an animation using the Render Options dialog. - The Render To New Window option now appears at either its set size or slightly smaller than the user's screen space (whichever is smaller) instead of defaulting to the Document window size. - Fixed a render crash caused by improper data culling and added extra data checks. - Improved ear morphs in the Face room. - Improved zoom handling in the Face room (vertical mouse motion now supported). - Renderer default no longer culls back-facing polygons. - Clicking the CLOSE (X) button in the render window no longer causes a false crash report. - Deactivated menus while simulating cloth & hair. - Fixed Library window height problem. - Text visibility issue in the Hierarchy editor is fixed. Again, thanks for your continued support, Brian Romero Curious Labs, Inc
ronmolina posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 9:49 PM
Hey Brian thanks! Going to go get it right now. Ron
Ironbear posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 10:34 PM
Ummmmmm.... which of these were the "non-critical bugs" it didn't ship with? Oh... and which of them are the "User Error" and the "System Compatibility Issues"? Enquiring minds want to know.
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
wdupre posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 10:45 PM
Hawkfyr posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 10:51 PM
Good Lawd ,would you look at that list?! WOW Thanks for the heads up Brian Tom
“The fact that no one understands you…Doesn’t make you an artist.”
Ironbear posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:07 PM
That's not "tagging", wdupre. That's a legetimate question based off of stuff that CL reps have been stating. I'll demonstrate tagging if you'd like me too. ;]
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
movida posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:14 PM
wdupre: I'll probably be accused of tagging too (and I still don't know what the hell it is) BUT... "Fixed crashes with textures larger than 4K by automatically scaling them down to 4K." I haven't bought it yet, and if this is the fix (I use and will continue to use textures larger than 4K) I give up. If I can't use textures larger than 4K then P5 is seriously limiting (for me anyway as I like DinaV and have a lot of "textures in progress" that are larger than 4K). It's just a fact. The face room doesn't interest me at all, I'd kind of like to be able to render water in Poser, I'd never use content paradise, and the cloth room, well for me it's not important at this time; but this texture size limitation along with the registration aggravation (get serious here, what if they DO go under????) is too much. I'd post this in the beta test forum but I don't have P5 Jan
judith posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:20 PM
Thanks Brian!
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
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soulhuntre posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:24 PM
I don't knwo that anyone SAID Poser5 didn't ship with critical problems IB - I DO know thatI ad others said Poser5 didn't ship with any critical issues known to the beta testers. I checked that bug report databse several times a day, and there was not one "show stopper" or critical bug reported and open when the beta closed. As for the user errors... I don't recall anyone listing any of the above AS user error. However we have several threads here on R'osity of people screaming "bug" at the top of their lungs about things when they simply don't understand (and sometimes specifically don't want to learn) what their error is. There is enough in life to be upset abut without creating new stuff that as far as I can tell didn't happen. I DO find it amusing that now CL is getting slammed for fixing things. It's a funny world :)
movida posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:37 PM
OK, still trying to make this work. For the record, I'm really wanting to buy P5. Is this texture size limitation present in P5 pre-SP2 or was it introduced with SP2?
Ironbear posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:41 PM
Isn't it though? ;] That's not a slam though. Honest. That's a question... fairly bluntly [and possibly tackily] stated I'll grant you, but a question. Man - you of all people have seen me write a slam. You know the difference by observation by now.
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
pokeydots posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:49 PM
I installed the update, and all I can say is Thanks CL! This fixed a lot of problems I was having! I like to use Caspses Roxanne, and she got deformed in P5 but she works fine now!
Poser 9 SR3 and 8 sr3
=================
Processor Type: AMD Phenom II 830 Quad-Core
2.80GHz, 4000MHz System Bus, 2MB L2 Cache + 6MB Shared L3 Cache
Hard Drive Size: 1TB
Processor - Clock Speed: 2.8 GHz
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Graphics Type: ATI Radeon HD 4200
•ATI Radeon HD 4200 integrated graphics
System Ram: 8GB
ronmolina posted Fri, 25 October 2002 at 11:53 PM
IB just a question. Does your bed have a matteress on it or are you just sleeping on springs? You are so negative and anti Poser so why dont you go some where else. Ron
wdupre posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:08 AM
IB, I think you know very well that your message would do nothing but bring out animosity in a thread which was just intended to announce a new bug fix release. that is why I call it tagging. just my opinion but it seems that you enjoy nothing more then to incite an argument.
Ironbear posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:09 AM
Why should I? Let's see... I'm a user of the program. I'm a cutomer of well... MetaCreations, not Curiouslabs, but CL acquired the prog I bought [and the problems, which they also designed in]. I've actually been a contributor to this forum and to Poser Technical off and on for some time. And a contributor to this site, in a number of ways for several years. I'd say I have as much apparent right to be here as you have to suggest I not be. Stiff off. ;] I'm not anti-poser. But - based on what I've seen of them over the course of the past two years or so, culminating in this release, I am more than a bit cynical about CuriousLabs. Now. It's my belief that someone should ask them pointed questions off an on. Doesn't have to be me - but I'm one of the people who is doing it. One among many. If you don't happen to like that, wellll... too damned bad, Ronny. Deal with it.
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Niles posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:09 AM
Thanks Brian, Got it.
wdupre posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:14 AM
movida how big do you render your images? I don't quite understand why you would need your textures to be larger then that unless your images are being rendered to poster sizes. for most even 4k images are unnessasary. and no I do not consider your post tagging.
ronmolina posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:39 AM
IB seems like you cant afford a copy of P5. Let me know I will purchase one for you. You seem to make a lot of comments with out knowing. Oh by the way I noticed you mentioned Messiah in one post as an alternative to Poser. Surely you did not mean that. Hey what ya drinking tonight? Its becks here! Save me a shot of what your drinking. If there is a worm in the bottle I have dibs on it. Ron
Ironbear posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:48 AM
I have a copy of Poser 5, thank you. And I make a lot of comments knowing precisely what I'm talking about. And what I'm basing them on - including reading the beta froum here. I'm just choosing to not be a part of the "CuriousLabs $349 Beta Test For Us Club". I can - and will periodically ask them pointed questions, and/or point out areas where they seem to be ummm... less than consistent. Again, you dislike that? Your choice - your problem. By the way... precisely which part of "Stiff off" were you translating as "Gee, let's go have a brew and be buds?" snicker
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
movida posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:52 AM
wdupre: I'm playing at texturing and DinaV is my favorite (I like the realism of the model, nice smooth head, morphability, posability and blah blah blah). I've got head textures (psd layers) that are upwards of 6K...not final, but wip's...hi res digital photos (Canon's got a new model, the D1s I think)...are 11 million pixels, full frame ... layer a head texture with digital photos sliced 'n diced and 4K is not good and you have to render and re-render... how to do it in P5 if you've got a 4K texture size limit? The realism of renders is more dependant on textures than models (in my totally un-professional opinion). You can take a crap model/figure and it'll look good if you use a good skin ... I learned that one with the first Mike head morph I did...it was crap but looked ok because I used Syyds' Kane on it. BUT...you can't use a crap skin on a good model and have it look good, just doesn't work. So the point of all this rambling is that many people want realism ... digital based skins are the most realistic in close-up renders. If P5 can't handle anything over 4K texture sizes you're limiting how far artists can push it (at least in this direction). Many people have upgraded their hardware for P5, so ... the machines can handle it and P5 should be able to also. I'm not one in favor of limiting what a lot of these texturers will be able to do with figures/props etc., because if you do that...you limit Poser and it's usefulness in ways that may not be apparent right now. I just do not like arbitrary, senseless limitations which will hamper creativity. Just think of the 3D worlds that could be created (like HMann's 3d world, which I really like) without texture size limitations or rendering issues. end of intended guilt inducing plea to CL to get rid of the f'n 4K texture size limit g Jan
wdupre posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:59 AM
IB sometimes your "Pointed questions" can be nothing more then a sharp stick poking at an open wound, you of course have a right to make them, but then I also have a right to say they are useless and unproductive.
Ironbear posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:06 AM
Ah. Meta_mannix again? snicker
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
soulhuntre posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:24 AM
I deleted my first reply, 'cause I am trying to be a gentler person :) I >like< the 'tough questions'... only I usually expect them to have some grounding in what actually happened or was said. It's sort of pointless to ask the tough questions about a fictitious event :) Personally I like IB generally, he has a good shoot from the hip thing going that has in the pastcut through a LOT of BS around here. I just hape to think this time around his pointed stick is facing in a really rong direction. Wanna be annoyed? Fine. Want to ask tough questions? Good... but try and be accurate with them... it's more sporting. BTW - A 4K texture means 4096 pixels on a side. Thats 409640963 (bytes) or almost 49MEG of in memory texture footprint. I promise, you don't need all that for what you are almost certainly doing. In order for it to be even remotely relevant, you woud need to be rendering images so close to the skin that the texture was rendering 1 x 1 with the output and then your output size would need to be huge. Under all other circumstances your texture is not rendering 1x1 on the output, and a 3K or 2K texture would be fine. Now, should the restriction go away? I guess it won;t hurt to drop it.... but let's not pretend that this is a feature that is effecting the output of Poser5 in any but the most extreme theoretical conditions.
Ironbear posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:27 AM
Attached Link: QB White of CuriousLabs
Fascinating. LAD3D = www.lad3D.com = Quentin White at Renderosity = QB White of Curious Labs LAD3D: members.ez?Who=LAD3D White, Quinten last login: 10/26/02 Slip your leash boy? Or just getting cocky now that your company is partnered with Renderosity? Either way, a wonderful display of CuriousLabs public relations. And after Unka Larry was doing so nicely over in the other threads. Your boss know you're doing this, or you be shooting your mouth off on your own nickle?"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Ironbear posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:34 AM
"Personally I like IB generally, he has a good shoot from the hip thing going that has in the pastcut through a LOT of BS around here. I just hape to think this time around his pointed stick is facing in a really rong direction." No probs, Soulhuntre. I happen to generally like you also. I especially like the way that you think things through, you tend to stay calm no matter what, and you generally illustrate your points with research. Sometimes you're f*cking scary - and that's a compliment. ;] I don't have a problem with you here on this, really. It's possible that you're right and the pointed stick is facing wrong - it's also possible you and I aren't seeing the same things. It's even possible [probable?] that we both have different research sets to base from. Np. I'm sure you've also noticed that If I prove to be in the wrong, I'll own it. But I take a lot of proving... and gibbering attacks from past or present company employees aren't likely to do much except set my teeth in things. grin
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Questor posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:37 AM
More like a Curious Labs affiliate actually Ironbear, is it Mr. White? Or have you forgotten that you are identified in this forum as a "friend of many years" by Curious Labs. Shame really, you've given a very bad impression with your little hissy fit there. Never mind, it's understandable that you'd be "protective" towards your friends. Oh, and in case anyone is interested. Here he is... http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=491680 Shame, I would have thought someone with their own business would have been more... polite and inventive rather than behaving like any other common forum weasel. I guess not. Good luck with your business Quintin, with friends like you Curious really doesn't need enemies.
raebnori posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:47 AM
:) snicker
LAD3D posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:57 AM
Oh I give up... Back to work... I can't compete with you guys. All the best...
Spit posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 2:02 AM
I'm nobody, not affiliated with anyone, but darn it IB this is utter arrogant crap. Thank you not for hijacking this thread. I'm sick and tired of you and your kind myself. At this point I don't give a whit what facts or experiences you base your spleen on. Your posts have simply become noise to me and countless others. That makes them worthless to everyone but you.
Frisketus posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 2:20 AM
Spit. An awful lot of us agree with you.
judith posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 2:29 AM
unbookmarking, thanks again Brian. :)
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
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Lapis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 2:40 AM
"So the point of all this rambling is that many people want realism ... digital based skins are the most realistic in close-up renders. If P5 can't handle anything over 4K texture sizes you're limiting how far artists can push it (at least in this direction). Many people have upgraded their hardware for P5, so ... the machines can handle it and P5 should be able to also" Movida, I am one of those people, like yourself who would definately appreciate higher res for photorealistic portraits among other renders. I'll take the longer render times when I need crisp results. I will keep suggesting this to CL until it is part of the software. You also mentioned the Canon D1s. That is one sweet camara. If you want to see sample shots go to Dp review and look in the news section. This thing is rivaling medium format cameras. Unfortunatly its price is dear at around 7to 8 grand us.(ouch) Kodak is releasing a 14 megapixel camera shortly for under 5 grand. So yes, I want higher res to stay ahead of the curve. More artists will be demanding it soon anyway. Gentlemen..carry on.
mepnomis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 2:52 AM
Lapis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 2:55 AM
What would you say was the time difference in rendering pre and post update? That atmosphere is damn delicious isn't it.
mepnomis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 3:12 AM
Lapis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 3:20 AM
Wanna have some fun with atmosphere. Pick up Snowsultans new free light on the 3rd page of poser freestuff. You can place it anywhere ie. torchlight, behind a window (to allow a beam of light through) etc. Some really cool possibilities.
mepnomis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 3:24 AM
Thanks you for the tip Lapis!!!
SAMS3D posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 4:31 AM
Now I downloaded the beta about a week ago, is this a new one or the same one? Sharen
Lapis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 4:39 AM
Brand spanking new as of friday.
SAMS3D posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 4:40 AM
Okay, on my way...Sharen
mepnomis posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 5:31 AM
movida posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 8:03 AM
Lapis: I haunt DpReview g kind of decided on a Canon D60 for myself when I'm ready Can anyone verify if the 4K texture limit was present pre-SR2? If it wasn't I might take my chances and buy P5 and only install SR1, the ability to use large textures is that important
Jcleaver posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 8:29 AM
In general, pre-SR2, if you had a texture greater than 4K, it would crash, hence the fix. I would like to see the limit properly fixed and removed, but I don't really have a problem with using the smaller (and still large) texture.
movida posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 9:04 AM
williamsheil posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 9:05 AM
One thing that seems to have been fixed in this beta, although it hasn't been clearly identified as fix except under the 'general render speed improvement', was the render speed slowdown that would sometimes cause a simple scene to takes hours to render depending on the camera position. I was trying to compile a definitve bug report for this, but, having just tried my example scenes with SR2-Beta2, the bug seems to have been solved. This is a big relief since myself and, I suspect a lot of other people, were finding this bug alone made working with P5 impossible. Bill
sargebear posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 9:09 AM
you mean that patch to fix ALL those bugs? well i want to thank you for making up my mind if i'm going to get P5 for the Mac.. looks like you lost one mac user. wonder if other mac users will follow? P5 released in Sept. and now a Month later, they have a patch, wonder if CL will make it up to th folks who LOST time and Money waiting on a fix for a program they put on a market way too early?
movida posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 9:50 AM
Jcleaver: thanks for the reply...well, that hosed that idea lol
movida posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 9:57 AM
And in defense of IB: All I perceive is his (and a few others) trying to keep things honest. If the damned problems are there, then they're there and hiding your head in the sand doesn't really make them go away. I for one, have been duped by exclamatory posts accompanying the release of products here, bought them, and was disappointed. I think those lauding products should be required to identify themselves as having been beta testers and therefore, received said product free. I was approached once and when I said I didn't want anything free I was told it wasn't free...all I had to do was post glowing reviews. No, I'm not going to name names but it really opened up my eyes. The same principle applies to this P5 fiasco. There are people here for whom, in the past, I've had the utmost respect and now that's dwindling. I'm not swayed one way or the other by the revelations. What does sway me, is the way they have to be brought forward.
ScottA posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 10:42 AM
Hi IB. Everything going ok? ;-)
Turtle posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 12:14 PM
IronBear is one of the nicest people I know on the internet. I find him refeshing honest and very helpful. Attacking The Bear does not make the problems go away.
Love is Grandchildren.
ScottA posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:01 PM
wdupre posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:13 PM
no, working on the problems make the problems go away. it just seems that some people are not interested in getting things straitened out. I'm not attacking IB just his useless statements that help nothing out. I have seen no evedence of CL hideing their heads in the sand. and as for slow bugfixes look at the record of other companies. MS comes to mind, they are still bringing out regular bug fixes for all of the software they are still supporting and there is much software and hardware I have had experience with that I'm still waiting for bug fixes years later.
Lawndart posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 1:22 PM
Hi Guys and Gals, I wanted to jump in real quick because of some earlier posts on this thread. QB and I are friends that go waaaaaaay back. We have worked on a few projects together outside of The Labs such as the Muscle O's commercial. QB has never been employed by or is in any other way affiliated with Curious Labs. Like the rest of us crazy artist types (and that's a good thing) in here in the forums. His opinions are his own. They do not reflect the opinions of us here at Curious. ---------------------------------------------------------- I noticed that you guys are seeing some improvements in the latest patch. Awesome! Ok... back to work for me so we can get yuh the next one. Marina: That's a nice shot of the Hydra. Looks like it's getting ready to take a chunk out of my chin! LOL
soulhuntre posted Sat, 26 October 2002 at 9:19 PM
A few things... 1) I LIKE being scary :) 2) Yeah IB, I know you'll admit it if your wrong... it si the only saving grace cranky debator types like us have :) 3) I >LOVED< Muscle O's! On Liquid TV right? That rocked :)
casamerica posted Sun, 27 October 2002 at 5:23 AM
Ironbear, I wish I had the time and patience right now to fully stand by you. Im sorry. Some personal business is taking a great deal of time and emotional payment from me to be able to do so. I can only say that Id trust and stand by you and a few others in this community before most. Hell, I dont think we even agree on most things! But I know when someone is speaking from the heart and from the soul. If nothing else, the past few weeks have taught me that. And I know when someone is pissing down my back while trying to convince me its raining. Theres been a whole lotta people offering a whole lotta umbrellas lately and Im too wet to give a damn anymore. Now I read in another post where we, that being those who wont grab the warm fuzzies or play Spin Doctor anymore, do what we do and say what we say because we enjoy being negative while snipers are running loose and the stock market sucks we should be ashamed. If no other comment or action had convinced me that my trust has been betrayed and my loyalty abused, that one was the clincher if for no other reason than the source. Like I said, I dont give a damn anymore. But I wanted you and those few others with the guts to say what needs to be said to know that, for what its worth, I agree with you. I stand with you. I know it aint much, but hows about sauntering up to the bar, downing a pint or two while singing Kumbayah for the folks before this devil dog has to make tracks again? Take care and be well. casamerica
CyberStretch posted Sun, 27 October 2002 at 6:53 AM
casamerica, At least your registration went smoothly. ;0)
Ironbear posted Sun, 27 October 2002 at 12:10 PM
Soulhuntre: 1) And you do it so well, too. ;) 2) Well... it's not the ONLY one I hope. ;] 3) Never saw that one. What'd I miss? Cas - don't sweat it. You take care of what you need to, laast I looked, there were a lot of us "horribly negative types" taking a jaundiced look at all this crap. Likewise, thanks Turtle, movida. Heh - last I checked, you, me, soulhuntre [soul and I don't agree on this] and a dozen others I can think of don't agree on everything... doesn't matter: we have a tendency to come to agreement on important issues. Or give other people the space to have their own views. If that sounds at odds with a few exchanges up there above... think it through. I adressed a qustion to the origional poster, and a couple of people took it as an excuse to launch their own attacks - and got back what experience and observation should have led them to expect. I didn't hijack this thread, but a couple of people with attitudes managed to by making it a snap and slash with me. No apologies - I don't pick fights, but when someone snaps at me, I bite back clean to the fucking bone. Go gutter on me, you get gutter back and I'm good at it. Spit, and a couple of others... I'm real sorry that you think that anyone who doesn't think that what CL is pulling with this release, public beta test, and exercise of borderline consumer fraud is full of "arrogant crap" - but too bad. Based on statements in other threads by Marque and a few other people, and postings in other forums by PJF and others, Cas, Marque, and I aren't the only ones. Sorry if we're taking potshots at your deities and that annoys you - but I'm not that sorry about it.
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
JohnRender posted Mon, 28 October 2002 at 10:11 AM
IB- I, for one, agree with you. We need more people asking the "pointed" and critical questions and less people being "Thank you, CL, may I have another?" However, whenever one of us nay-sayers brings up an issue, we are told that "be quiet, that's the way it is, so live with it" or "it's been released, it's too late to do anything, so be quiet." How about we look at this situation and make sure it never happens again? How about we hold CL accountable for making us pay for a buggy program that we have to beta-test for them? But, no, we are all "rabid" Poser users who don't want to admit that our favorite program may have issues. It's like finding out that the God you workship has flaws. We want to believe, we want to have faith, but we realize that CL and Poser aren't God, and that they are human... and make mistakes. But, we want to cover up those mistakes and pretend they don't exist, so we say the problems are "user error". Just look at this list of fixes. This is on top of the 81+ issues fixed in SR1! And how many more issues will be fixed in SR2 Final?? Good god! I think this program has gone from "buggy" to "Sorry, were we supposed to test it before shipping?"
Lapis posted Mon, 28 October 2002 at 10:31 AM
JR, that is precisely why I coined the term "bug parade".
soulhuntre posted Mon, 28 October 2002 at 1:28 PM
"However, whenever one of us nay-sayers brings up an issue, we are told that "be quiet, that's the way it is, so live with it" or "it's been released, it's too late to do anything, so be quiet." I don't see that .. in fact, I have seen this and other forums provide quite a bit of space to vent the frustrations. Further, the legitimate problems being pointed out are being fixed at a good clip by the sercive releases, and a few new features are also there for us. I haven't EVER told someone to "be quiet" about a complaint... what I have done is refused to lsiten to immature whining when it happens and correct soem reallys erious lack of understanding about the technology oand the industry. I don't mind complaining, but JUST because your complaining doesn't make you right :) Liking Poser5 doesn't make me a mindless drone any more than seeing how good WindowsXP does. P.S. Muscle O's ROCKED my world. Anywhere on the 'net with screenshots to share with IB?
Ironbear posted Mon, 28 October 2002 at 1:46 PM
Np. I have www.alltheweb.com bookmarked, if it exists on the net, I can probably hunt it up when I get a few. Based on the quote, not sure that you were in the group that JR was reffering to, soul.
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
ScottA posted Mon, 28 October 2002 at 1:55 PM
The problem lies in the translation. Drooling = Not jumping up and down and having a temper tantrum like a 2yr old. Community Savior = Throwing a hissy fit and posting in every thread (even ones that don't ask for personal opinions) about how evil CL is. And how we are all being duped. Pick one and stand tall and proud. I'm proud to be a drooler myself. :-) ScottA
Lapis posted Mon, 28 October 2002 at 1:58 PM
WHAT????
ScottA posted Mon, 28 October 2002 at 2:24 PM
That's a pretty good light bulb imitation Lapis. I can do a pretty good hot wheels car imitation myself: Varrrrrrrrrrroooommmmm!!!!
soulhuntre posted Tue, 29 October 2002 at 4:29 AM
Ah OK :)
Spit posted Fri, 01 November 2002 at 12:05 PM
Ironbear: "Spit, and a couple of others... I'm real sorry that you think that anyone who doesn't think that what CL is pulling with this release, public beta test, and exercise of borderline consumer fraud is full of "arrogant crap" - but too bad. Based on statements in other threads by Marque and a few other people, and postings in other forums by PJF and others, Cas, Marque, and I aren't the only ones. Sorry if we're taking potshots at your deities and that annoys you - but I'm not that sorry about it." Whoa.....don't make assumptions nor jump to conclusions about what I think about CL, the release, or anything else. THAT is being arrogant. What turned me off was your SARCASM in this thread. There are plenty of places to discuss the problems with the release, but I thought it was tacky here. And I still think it does no good at all to post everywhere there is any thread concerning the matter. We know what you think, there is nothing new, and it does get tiresome. "Deities?" Give me a break.
Ironbear posted Fri, 01 November 2002 at 12:30 PM
Ok. You got it. One "break". ;] I'm easy... no specifications on how long it'll last though. Fair 'nuff?
"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"
Spit posted Fri, 01 November 2002 at 12:56 PM
Fair 'nuff.