http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=931848 and http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=931999 The user sbertram was banned after apologizing for another thread stating that he had a grievance with one of the forum's moderators. He tried to post these messages here, but the moderator in question kept moving these messages to another thread. As someone who has had contact with sbertram before, he e-mailed me in order to ask the rest of you kind folks to let Renderosity know that this kind of behavior is unacceptable. I tend to agree with him on seeing the facts, and something like this worries me when I see this on the board.

I know from experience that the only way to win these battles is with a sense of humor and a sneaky left jab; sbertram apparently possesses neither of these. Without them, JeffH will poof your ass off to the lonely desert island that is Forum News before you know what hit ya. Lotsa luck, boys.

See what I mean?

I can't believe Sbertram was banned for this. His apology post was based on a post IN the poser forum FOR the poser users. As someone who did take offense to the original post, I could have missed his apology.
It's easy for someone to get upset over unrelated things and take it out on people in other areas of their life. I know, I've done it. It sounds like he meant some of what he said but not necessarily in the way he wrote it in the heat of the discussion.
The apology BELONGS in the poser forum.

Is it because he disagreed with a Mod? Deal with it! I believe that what sbertram felt was a personal attack was probably posted in the heat of the discussion as well and could be considered personal enough to warrant a warning. And if his post was deleted the other involved deserved no less.

If disagreeing with a mod is enough to be considered a "disruption" then you might as well ban everyone here. This is about the most ridiculous banning since Mehndi's.

...... Kendra

"I can't believe Sbertram was banned for this" He wasn't banned for that.

"If disagreeing with a mod is enough to be considered a "disruption" then you might as well ban everyone here. This is about the most ridiculous banning since Mehndi's." I disagree. Mehndi's banning was much more ridiculous, though not quite so much as PJF's. "He wasn't banned for that." He was banned for continually posting a message in the wrong forum, right, Jeff? Pardon me asking but it is ever so difficult to keep track of who is being banned for what reason... Let me make sure I got the chain of events correct on this: sbertram and someone else have a bit of a scuffle, and exchange a personal attack. sbertram gets his post deleted, but the other attack stays, and Jeff tells sbertram to drop the attacks. sbertram apologizes to everyone for getting so upset. Jeff moves that post off to nowhere land. sbertram asks why his post was moved. Jeff gives him a warning ( asking questions must be a TOS violation I s'pose ) sbertram asks, again why the post was moved. Jeff moves the new post. sbertram asks Jeff why the posts are being moved. Jeff moves the post. sbertram says, "Wtf is going on? Why won't you tell me why you're moving my posts. Spike moves the post. Jeff bans sbertram. Did I get the events in the right order? Did I miss anything? Paul

Attached Link: Do you doubt that Poser 5 was a good investment?

In the interest of putting this matter to bed, I have personally deleted all of my comments in the original thread, (call it self-censorship if you wish), except the one apologizing to Orio. It is true that I allowed the original reference to "whiners" and telling people to "shut up" a little too personally, and for that I am truely sorry. After hearing it time and time again, ad nauseam, I guess it finally hit a nerve or my own personal limit. Whatever the reason, I respectfully apologize for my remarks and the ruckus which ensued. I will strive to keep my humanity in check in the future.

The problem wasn't you Cyber... Although, you just apologized, which means you might get banned now, too ( lord I hope not - I always look forward to your posts ). The problem is in the decision of an administrator to step in on one side of the argument, then to add insult to injury by repeatedly shuffling away the member's attempts to set things right, culminating in that member's timely disappearance from the boards, with only the message "this member has been sent to the penalty box for asking a question about site policy". ( I'm paraphrasing based on the overriding administrative silence ).

Sounds like you got it right Paul. Personally I think we have the right to ask that a mod take a "time out". Especially when the majority feel they're being unfair.

...... Kendra

Well, I feel that I, too, acted inappropriately at the time and I felt it better if the whole thing was laid to rest from my perspective and involvement. I have no control over what the mods here do or do not do, so I cannot accept any responsibility along those lines. I did the only thing that I am allowed to do, which was to personally delete all my off topic posts in an attempt to at least quell the original source of dispute. I, honestly, originally thought that both posts had been deleted, in all fairness, to return the thread back on topic. I did what I could to bring that means to an end. I guess, now, it is up to JeffH, sbertram, and the others involved to straighten out their ends.

No, Paul's chain of events are not correct, but then it's a private matter anyway and cannot be discussed in public.

"No, Paul's chain of events are not correct, but then it's a private matter anyway and cannot be discussed in public." Well, for a private matter, it's awefully visible, Jeff. Kind of like argueing in the mall. If I see a security guard kick someone in the face, then they get tossed out on the street, I'm not going to drop it just because the security guard tells me "it's a private matter." Improper enforcement of the TOS is not a private matter, mein freund, it is a public matter that effects us as consumers and as merchants. What you don't seem to realize, Jeff, is that while the site administration is a policing force for the forums, the membership is ultimately a policing force for the administration as well. Without us you don't work, so having the attitude that you don't need to give us an explanation about a public concern is a bit short-sighted. I would sincerely ask you to reconsider and take a more level-headed and open approach, instead of making yet another public relations gaffe that will sponsor more negativity and draw more onlookers. Paul

No, actually the site owners are policing the Admins. You are unaware of the facts in this case, but they ARE aware.

-Jeff

"No, actually the site owners are policing the Admins." Yep. And when site owners get 2500 e-mails from angry members they get grumpy. Keep pushing buttons and it will happen. I've seen many site admins that didn't know enough to recognize a bit of friendly advice when it came their way. I truly hope you're not one of them because we've always gotten along in the past. While we are on the subject ( there was a subject here, Jeff ), would you please explain to me, why some posts which have naught to do with Poser, or, even with art, manage to remain in the Poser forum, while others, which actually are relevant to Poser, get shuffled off. I'm not going to imply any dark conspiracy bullshit, cause I think that tends to kill credibility and belittle the problem, but there needs to be some consensus. And please don't belittle my intelligence with the "we only have so many hours in a day and can't check everything, blah blah blah," because I've been averaging about 10 hours a week at Rosity for the last month, and have managed to read probably 50 - 60% of everything written, at least to a level of comprehension that could easily tell me "on-topic" or "off-topic". Paul

"and have managed to read probably 50 - 60% of everything written, " This statement only applies to the forums I surf regularly, Poser, OT, FN&TC, Copyright, Merchants, etc. Paul

i don't know if it's jeffh or spike or whoever, but the situation has been handled very badly from the admins/mods side. i certainly hope it will aprove in the future. there are lots of other forums around - and i don't mean poserpros. ;)

Ho la la

'While we are on the subject ( there was a subject here, Jeff ), would you please explain to me, why some posts which have naught to do with Poser, or, even with art, manage to remain in the Poser forum, while others, which actually are relevant to Poser, get shuffled off' I would also like a response to this as well. Why the silence Jeff?