WAR OF THE SEXES? For starters: When I downloaded Victoria from Zygote's site, I also immediately felt "cheated" somehow. I may yet ask for my money back tomorrow, depending on what Zygote releases in their free update. But NOT over how "good" she looks. Secondly: I am female. Now my point is this, though I KNOW there are men among the Victoria enthusiasts out there, it seems that most of her detractors are male. I am not sure how to put this delicately, so as usual I will just say what is on my mind. Is it possible women on the whole find Victoria more acceptable as a model than the men do, but only maybe so far as her "looks go? I do not find her precisely as "ugly" as you men seem to. I do find her to be largely regurgitation in a less usable form of Torino's Eve, and thus why I may ask for my money back. Eve has genitals. Victoria does not. THE GENITALS ISSUE. Ok, ok, all right already Zygote. I am a female. I do not do pornography with my women in Poser (and if I did, it is none of Zygote's business what we do with the models we have paid for). But from day one, way back to Poser 3, I spent a lot of my time attempting to get genitalia onto my women, even though it was going to be under the clothes. It is just a psychological thing. We want her as real as the man. (Maybe had the man been neutered.) We do not like this strangely neutered woman. She needs her parts too? Yes? If you all at Zygote hold off on making an anatomically correct female for fear that it will offend women, I think you need to consider neutering the women has offended us more. It is as if somehow it was silently stated that there is something nasty about a model that is anatomically correct for a woman. If it is a matter of the fact that your male modelers are a bit gun-shy on working on those parts, hire one of us female 3d modeling artists, I do not think we are gun-shy about our own bodies. WHAT IS WRONG WITH VICTORIA: Posette was in my opinion just too perfect. She looks so perfect, so generic, that we spent all of our time attempting to make her somehow more believable, less "artificial", more like a real woman. Now, as we have all seen demonstrated amply over the last weeks, if we were not already aware of it, Zygote staff heavily monitors this bboard and our posts. Zygote staff may not say a lot, they are watching and reading, and aware of what we spend a lot of our time doing to Posette. Was it not reasonable then, for them to make a woman who was somehow more "average" in look, a bit less perfect, even down to dark shadows under her eyes in the texture? A "real" woman. I guess they believed that was what we were working our fingers to the bone to achieve. Surprise! Poor Zygote maybe should have put up a questionnaire asking us what we all REALLY wish for in our idea of a new standard model for Poser 4, instead of watching our activities with Posette. WISHFUL THINKING. I think all of us hope that Zygote will somehow someway make it up to us that we are on the whole disappointed in Victoria. That maybe Victoria was not what we had all wished for, even those who did go on and pay for her and are now, working their fingers to the bone, just as they did with Posette, to make her more what we wanted her to be. I believe though, that since the cost of development of Victoria will be the bottom line in Zygote's thinking (as it must since they are a business) that most improvements of Victoria will need to be done by this community. I do hope that someone, perhaps Torino or another of the excellent morph artists, will take Victoria to new heights. I hope Zygote learns that monitoring this bboard is not enough to learn what we need. They might in fact just ASK us. Or perhaps the forum moderators could put up a poll bboard specifically for that. Zygote Wishlist. Ah well.