Allow me to preface this blithering rant by saying that I've been hanging out, and recently posting, here at Renderosity for several months now, and I have seen some truly magnificent artwork created by some of the most talented folks in my experience. Of course, by the same token I've seen some absolute dreck as well. I have also been following the whole "Gallery Content/ Naked Vicki in a Temple" debate with a fair amount of mingled amusement and disgust. Some of ya'll out there prepare to stick some pins in your official JettBoy Voodoo Doll.

It's the JettBoy's opinion that there are two seperate and distinct thought processes at work in the "Gallery Content" debate which has been raging on (and on) 'round here. One group shouts "Look what I can do with Poser!", while the other group shouts, "Look at the art I've created!". Whether or not they are concious of it, every person here falls on one side of that fence or the other. Personally, I don't find endless streams of cookie-cutter nude, large-breasted, masterbatory fantasy girls to be all that artistic. Back home they use to say "just because a cat has kittens inside an oven don't make 'em biscuits"; likewise, just because one can create images of nude, large-breasted, masterbatory fantasy girls doesn't make one Frank Frazetta.

Speaking strictly for myself, Poser is just another tool in my big ol' art box, no different than Photoshop, Illustrator, Bryce, photography, acrylics, watercolors or oils. In the grand scheme of things, art is about exploring yourself...your own heart, mind, attitude, experience and unique vision, not about exploring a computer program. I am an ARTIST, not a product demonstrator for Curious Labs. How 'bout you?

Not an artist, never will be, happy playing with my toys without pretense about doing anything else. And no naked Vicky in the Temple in my gallery. Not all of us amateurs have any interest in Frank Frazetta and his knock offs. No offense to the people who like those fantasy guys and gals, because you should do what you enjoy doing...just saying they do zero for me. Two categores. Fine, I'm happy to be in the "Look, what I can do with Poser." They seem an honest enough group to me.

Sorry, I think I need to see a picture of the Cat with biscuits in the oven, the reference needs clarifying hahaha :P

If your such a great Artist acclaimed by your fellow countrymen - put up your Bio and let us be the judge.

Hmmmm poser you say ....Art Hmmmmm

Hmmmm poser you say ....Art Hmmmmm

Hmmmm poser you say ....Art Hmmmmm

Hmmmm poser you say ....Art Hmmmmm

Hmmmm poser you say ....Art Hmmmmm

Hmmmm poser you say ....Art Hmmmmm

Hmmmm poser you say ....Art Hmmmmm

Poser is a plugin for Photoshop and Bryce. ;] Ermmm... Frazetta didn't do naked women in temples and ruins, that was Royo and Vallejo, Dailyn. Frazetta does scantily clad women in the jungles with sabretoothed tigers. ;] Clevenger does naked women with aliens. Get yo fantasy sterotypes straight, dammit! ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

Hey Mac, if those faux romance novel covers are yours I'd have to say I'm impressed! You may be an artist and not actually know it...don't panic, it's OK, they have a lot of different treatment options these days.

I stand corrected...I'm clearly not well versed in fantasy art. Don't forget Jasc Paint Shop Pro...we're not all upscale, you know. I'm happily using Poser in combination with PSP. Where can I get a sabretoothed tiger? I have all these horses around that have been beaten to death and I am in need of a clean up crew.

By the way JettBoy anyone can be an artist(and yes their mine). If peoples hearts are with pretty girls and temples so be it... it's art to them and many and I am sure it comes from the heart... personally I don't think you have the understanding or the back ground to prove your point of view... Please rant some where else. Dale MacMullin BFA, BA, B.Ed

Hmmmm....Naked Vicky in an oven,with large biscuits...

I think Jettboy has a right to rant....we just have a right to rant back. I like your book covers. Did you really do them that fast or did you happen to have them on hand for an opportune moment???

No question where I fall...still just a hobbyist. Some of you may use your creations in projects for pay, but I'm not sure how many actually just sell images they make for cash like a say a painter would. So here we are...hobbyguys..."artists"...illustrators... But for my 2 cents, the real talents here are the people who create all the great characters, etc that we get to use. Art??..Who knows from art?? Beav

sigh Sadly, dialyn, no one seems to have done a sabretooth yet. ;[ Hrmmm... think we can convince Anton to add it to his cat project? The Millenium Sabretooth maybe? ;] Or possibly Lynne over at VistaInternet... hrmmm....

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

I've just joined in here in the past few days and by jove I'm glad to see you're all just as batty as the brysters. Catlin 8)

The Harlequin Book covers are six feet high and four feet wide in real life (in all 20 of them). Created with magic markers, photocopies and watercolor. I had them on hand... there from my old portfolio when I did my Fine Arts Degree.

Ironbear....Hasn't someone done a tiger...seems like it wouldn't be a hard morph from lion to tiger to sabretooth. I think Anton or Lynn should look into this. A prehistoric series. Mastadon, anyone? Why does Rachel Welch in a fur bikinni suddenly enter my mind....am I dating myself or what? Of course you have to date yourself when no else will. But that's another story.

I like the Idea of Naked Vicky in an oven,with large biscuits. Yummy....

Macmullin....20 of them? that's cool. They would be great for a library display: "Find Romance in the Library...check it out today." Guess where I work? ;)

would that be violence AND nudity reguarding the vicky oven?

No...It's an Easy-Bake Oven by Hasbro

LOL new meaning to Pop Tarts hahaha!

Attached Link: Mammoth

And dating yourself is illegal in the Bible belt. ;] That's what made me think of VistaInternet... she has a mammoth and a few other prehistoric critters in their series, between her and Debra Ross's stuff.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

so, like...why is renderosity STILL described as "online graphic ARTIST community?" if the hobbyists outnumber the artists 20 to 1 in the gallery...why doesn't r'osity call a spade a spade...and, go completely with their new vision for this site...and, actually call it an online graphics hobbyist site? me thinks that they need that word "artist" to sell. am i the only one who would like to view some stuff by folks who are better at cg than i am, as opposed to viewing works by someone who is worse, and, not even caring?

Dedicated Digital has a sabre-tooth

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

How 'bout that...cool Mammoth. Well, that does give one ideas. Fortunately I'm on the West Coast. Dating oneself is an acceptable alternative lifestyle here. Now, to find out if a sabretooth is a possibilitiy.

Well, I posted before I saw the sabre tooth entered the scene. Thanks!

Can't someone make a Sabertooth from those kittens?

Sabre-tooth seems to be out of my price range....oh well, the hunt goes on. Where is Raquel when you need her?

Wow Mac, your credentials are very impressive... makes my sad lil' BFA seem pretty puny by comparison! I think you might have misunderstood my initial post, possibly construeing it as a challenge to get into an academic pissing match. Never did I say that anyone COULD NOT be an artist based on the content of their work. If one's intent is to express some portion of themselves, they are quite probably artists (maybe not very good artists...but hey, taste is subjective). At one point in your chastising of the JettBoy, you mention, I'm paraphrasing, "if it comes from the heart, it's art." I agree. I just find it hard to believe that every single image of a large-breasted, masterbatory fantasy girl is actually "from the heart". Perhaps another segment of the anatomy...

Dialyn...Sorry for not getting back to you... Thank you for you kind comments. I am glad you like them, but you would need a very large Library to show them all. The most I have ever been able to show at one time is eight.

Well, depends on the size of the library near you, of course. Neat project. I'll also vote you on the "artist" side of the fence. ;)

JettBoy at the end of all of this foolishness.. I like Swaps idea best... with a pinch of mine.... Off to render a Naked Vicky in an Easy-Bake oven, with large biscuits :-P

*** We interrupt this rant to annoy you and make things generally irritating. ***

Sabretooth cats were not tigers, nor were they closely related to tigers.

Smilodon didn't even have a long tail; it had a bobtail.

*** We now return to your regularly-scheduled rant, already in progress. ***

...Followed up with a movie trailers of "Clan of the Cave Bear" and "In Quest of Fire" :-)

..this is going to be big...I can feel it....

Attached Link: University of Iowa/Department of Geoscience

I stand corrected yet again....I meant that a tiger might be able to be morphed into a sabretooth for the purposes of a Poser graphic. Guess the tail part would have to be dealt with somehow. They do have a resemblance if you blink real fast. But thank you for the reality check. Now all I need is a cat modeler.

Ok,if you can't make a Sabertooth out of those kittens...what about that Cat Character for Vicky?

"Poser is a plugin for Photoshop and Bryce. ;]" -Ironbear Lies, all Lies! I've recently discovered that Poser is actually a plugin for POV-Ray and The GIMP (and maybe Vue, but the jury's still out on that one :p ) Up Wid Da Cheap Bastards! :) /P

"if the hobbyists outnumber the artists 20 to 1 in the gallery...why doesn't r'osity call a spade a spade" -Poppi ...because the art matters, baby! (where's that :lmao: emoticon when you really need it?) :) /P

And we needed another whole new thread for this? Isn't the other one still warm?

...... Kendra

The other one didn't have a sabretooth cat, masadon, and Raquel Welch in it...not mention no kittens in the oven. I kind of enjoy watching these threads unravel at the ends.

I like watching them unravel at the beginning and middle also. ;] Heh. GIMP. Pov-Ray. Freebie whore. ;] <------- Smug eliteist bastisch. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

I'm with Penguinisto, I'm just another Freebie whore. I think I'll go create my first NVIAT for the hell of it. Tashar 59

GIMP makes me crazy. I vote for Pixia. :) Art is really one of those subjective matters. Some people like Warhol or the Blue Dog series. Some like surrealism or cubism. Some like pin-up art. Some like rendering blue cubes and calling them Blue. As long as everyone is enjoying themselves, what difference does it make. I consider myself an amateur artist, I have a knack for it in traditional media and I'm still working on bringing that through in the 3D Arena. Its all a learning experience. Maybe some of these people are doing just that. Most of us can look at some of our earlier work, regardless of the medium, and say that they would have done this or that differently - added a light here, used a better texture there.

.

"Smilodon didn't even have a long tail; it had a bobtail." Sorry LD, Smilodon isn't the only sabretooth cat. Just the North American variety. It had a bobtail. Now look up the african fossil examples - a number of those had sabreteeth and long tails. And were not smilodons. ;]

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

ok, I admit to doing a somewhat crappy job on a sabretooth morph for the poser lion. Didn't look that bad, but could have been better. Been meaning to make some prop fangs but haven't done it yet (should be a 2 minute job at most, simple 2railsweep). Smilodons were about the same size as a modern lion, but twice as heavy....the poser lion would need to be beefed up. problem is, the poser lion leaves alot to be desired...someone made a free tiger that seemed to pose better, that might be the figure to work with.

I like Warhol. I like Frazetta, Vargas and Vallejo. Royo too. I like Degas, and I like Monet. I like Manet too. I just adore Patrick Nagel, and Dennis Mukai. I love Olivia De Berardinis, and H.R. Giger too. I like Michaelangelo... I like Lichtenstein too. I like M.C. Escher. A LOT. !!!!!! Oh, and I like Frank Lloyd Wright. He's not an artist you say... damn straight he WAS... I think Richard Feynman was great at rendering the nude female form. Oh, yeah he was known for being a Nobel prize winning physicist. So what - he drew nude women very well too. Netherworks is spot on. My background is in traditional media as well, and just an amateur 3d artist that works on improving my skills in this new media. Poser is one of the tools in the toolbox. I like naked females, I like them with clothes on too. I even like buildings and furniture. but those tesselations of M.C. Escher fascinate me every time... maybe I should do some nude ones just to spite the old women here. Oh yeah, you can see male genitals in Escher's Angels and Devils tesselation... god forbid! Its not art anymore... !! What bothers me most about the NVIAT argument is that strikes me as just a bunch of prudes that usually have no clue about great art, trying to impose their prudery on everyone else in the name of art. Repel them, repel them... repel the fascists at all costs. If its art to YOU and you enjoyed creating it, that's all that matters.

Hmmm, well, not IN an oven, but beside one. She only willingly enters temples, I'm afraid.

Nekkid Vicky with an oven and large biscuits...

Now, if I can get a sabretooth tiger into the oven, then we'll have something...

LOL! those are mighty big biscuits, I have to admit. Watch your hands...I've heard sabretooths leave a nasty bite mark if not handled correctly.

mc escher is great - must aggree :) i esp. love his architectonic surreal/impossible views and fakes. and i love the art of valejo, frazetta, royo, posada and others. and i love temple girls ... ;)

I love the large biscuits ... but/or are they muffins?

This great stuff lhiannan - I am sure Salvador Dali would approve.:-)

Now I understand why this is called an artists community. It's because you talk about artists now and again.

Has it occurred to anyone that "Online Graphic Artists Community" is a vision or mission statement for Renderosity? What those who established the site hoped it would become as opposed to what it actually is. Is it their fault that a bunch of us non-artists took up residence? They made available free and open space in their galleries, and we ran in and put refrigerator paintings up on their walls. I freely admit I am doing no more than that. Why do we blame Renderosity or its owners for that? We are the ones creating the galleries, not them. Anybody remember Pogo/Walt Kelley? We have met the enemy and it is us? The question is, what's so terrible about that? Why can't the self-admitted hobbyists share space with the self-proclaimed artists without having this ongoing debate? It is what it is, and we have made it this way. So what? Of all the really important things in life, surely putting a graphic up on a digital gallery isn't the most significant. And if it is, I'd check out your priority list this year.

By the way what is the record for the length of a single post or thread? This one makes an even 60!

Small potatoes...."Daz Studio" has 240.

Your right, not even close...

I have a feeling that "California Dreaming" was one of the top 5 longest threads but nothing can touch the Poserpros P5 Eula thread.

Favorite artists? Fanch Ledan, Gary Benfield, Tarkay, Linda Lekinff, Peter Nixon, to name a few. :)

...... Kendra

I do agree that after merest moments all the pathetic goobers who are using Poser to try to make up for being bottle-fed as babies can become annoyingly tedious. On the other hand, Renderosity's galleries are worth every penny I paid to take a look at them. I only regret the minutes wasted in confirming that such sad gits are as common as I already thought they were. I'm not an artist, nor do I pretend to be. I do dabble in modeling, although the past year or so I've taken a few steps back to get my old school paper and pencil draftwork and preliminaries up to snuff. It's amazing how important that still is. My wife, on the other hand, is an artist--actually, she's a mere "illustrator" according to the besotted nihilists who have taken it upon themselves to define "art" in our current era. But I just remember what Kelly said once when he commented on the difficulties my wife was having with her formal art professors. "If anybody understands it, it's just illustration. If anybody actually likes it, it's too commercial." Oh, yeah: POW! WHAM! HOOOOOOOOTERS! A little textual nudity and violence.

"she's a mere "illustrator" according to the besotted nihilists who have taken it upon themselves to define "art" in our current era"

as in..

"I do agree that after merest moments all the pathetic goobers who are using Poser to try to make up for being bottle-fed as babies can become annoyingly tedious. On the other hand, Renderosity's galleries are worth every penny I paid to take a look at them. I only regret the minutes wasted in confirming that such sad gits are as common as I already thought they were."

Pot-Kettle-Black syndrome perhaps? :)

...... Kendra

...so if Vicky is in the oven now,did Momma cat move the kittens to the temple?......

I'm amazed at the unique ability of artists to simultaneously rail against those who presume to say what is or isn't art while doing exactly the same thing to others. "Piss Christ" is art, but Vicky in a Temple isn't. "Duct Tape, Paste, and Crap I Found in My Apartment" is art, but a Bryce Landscape isn't. I wonder how prolific Pollock or Mondrian would have been had they listened to what other people considered "art." On the other hand, i agree with Legume. :)

This is the same problem in science fiction and comic books. Stan Lee became a great because he read everything around him and drew from it, NOT (like Rob Liefeld) by imitating other artists in the same field (a useful technique for LEARNING a craft, not practicing it). If the only art you have for a frame of reference is what you see in any online gallery, you're restricting your own thought. OTOH if fantasy poster art is your thing, have fun doing it. No one here is required to be a bleed-for-your-art tie smeller, thank god. Fairies nauseate me, but I can recognize the enjoyment their artists here have creating those images. Believe me, ten pieces of bad art here are more palatable than one bad fanfic.

Attached Link: http://www.artregister.com/SeavestIntroductiontoCollection/Catalogue/PearlsteinTwoNudes.html

I think one of the North American greatest artist who married classical nude drawing and painting with modern and post modern movements is Philip Pearlstein (b.1924). His work deals with the nude figure with very unusual strange and dynamic compositions and surroundings. I think he would have loved working with Poser.

Attached Link: http://www.robertmillergallery.com/pearlsteinshowimages.html

Philip Pearlstein: Recent Paintings 2001 - Robert Miller Gallery Catalogue

Did anyone see the "60 minutes" segment on how optics may have been used to help create the highly detailed paintings of 500 years ago? It was really an intersting theory...the historian proposes that the grand masters of that time may have literally traced images onto their canvases. Of course he is rattling the cages of the art world and the intellectuals having hysterics over the idea that a grand master wouldn't use a short cut. I think they would have enjoyed working with Poser too. :)

Sabertooth, dedicated digital.

The mice better hide. That cat looks hungry. Is the Sabertooth from the Dedicated Digital Animal Kingdom cd?

"By the way what is the record for the length of a single post or thread? This one makes an even 60! " If you mean the record for this site: roughly 781 posts to the longest thread here, total something like 6-10megs of HTML when saved out. If you mean "record in a 3D community thread", it's currently about 1780 posts and 23,000+ views in the big "EULA from Hell" thread at Poser Pros general discussions forum.

"I am a good person now and it feels... well, pretty much the same as I felt before (except that the headaches have gone away now that I'm not wearing control top pantyhose on my head anymore)"

• Monkeysmell

"actually call it an online graphics hobbyist site..." Now Poppi, no copying my idea. Sheesh, can't we have some originality an creativity in these rants. If this keeps up, I may have to go elsewhere for my inspiration. Everybody'd better be getting ready to render Vicky in CAD_MAN's new temple or she will be verrry upset, and you know what a b@#%h she can be when she's mad.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

Yes, dedicated digital animal kingdom cd.