very interesting concept

That's a great looking image. Vivid colors. Definitely provokes the imagination.

WILD!!! Very different...nicely done!

This is an interesting image for me and I must agree with ArtPearl,a masterly work of art that brings about strong feelings as art should. As one who attempts to depict many images of past wars in a different light, and from the other side, I try to leave a message that both sides will ponder. In looking at this work I wonder if the viewer may better question both sides had the imagery been more balanced thus allowing one to ponder the questions at hand. Anyway, be it propaganda, or a strong point of view, it certainly shows a skillful artistic ability of high level.

very bold image! very frustrating to appreciate. the image is intriguing enough and powerful enough to elicit further investigation, but it is relatively too small to fulfill that interest...bigger would be better, much, much better. i understand the concern about copyright infringement, but... very powerful...enviable work!

WONDERFUL IMAGE.... and the zionist/american beast will eat itself after he's through with the islamist. not only this work not propaganda (which tries to sell something) it is also a profoundly accurate metaphor for what, in fact, is happening. i am sorry so many americans still walk around with the self-deceived concept of themselves and america in general as peacemakers and liberators... this delusion must be smashed or the truth (which the whole rest of the world knows) and it's consequences will decimate us. keep up the good work.

Wow,wow,wow,really fantastic masterwork very well done!

Brilliant work

Idealistic provocation promotes nothing, to raise questions, even in art the piece must ASK questions.......this is not even good propaganda

Very skillfully done but I think these kind of images have no place in Renderosity. I think this image perfectly fits in the following sentence that can be read in the Terms of Service of Renderosity: "Destructive commentary/communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack" As such, it should be deleted from the galleries, IMHO.

Great image for a crock, Tim too..........

I don't like to comment on the political side of art, as I feel in some ways it's supporting one side or the other, of which I disagree with all wars for any reason. But if it was just the Israelly flag on the right, surely it would be the tiny one and the rest of the Arab nations would be the larger flag. I also agree, you have every right to display your artistic feelings and bring to the attention of this community and who ever else will view your awesome expressive art and to get your point across.

We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children.We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us. GOLDA MEIR It's an interesting work but I think Renderoity is not the place for politic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm deeply touch by this one - you may be right - that's what disturbed me a lot!

Oh wow Most Impresive mix of flags and style to this Out-Standing look!! Very Powerful thought into this Beasts Design very deep!!!!

We have no right to remove this image from the gallery. Do we believe in freedom of speech or do we not? Art should make us think; about beauty, about our lives and about the world we live in. It is not reserved to vacuous renditions of emotionless cadavers, as most Poser images (in my opinion) are. Whatever the truth of the issues raised in the art, there are always three sides in a war; each opponents P.O.V and then the truth in between - and NO ONE who honestly believes in the duality of opposing cultures has the right to say that both points of view cannot be expressed. If one wants to stamp out other people's vision if it contradicts your own then, I am sorry to say, you do not respect art as a vehicle of social reflection. Personally I do not know whether I agree with the politics of the painting but I will defend the artist's right to express it!

Most fascinating piece of work. Your use of symbolism, colors and lights is very good. But from the propaganda standpoint, like all propaganda should take it with a grain of salt. It is obvious you feel very passionate about your art, one only has to look at work to see this. Personally I don't feel this gallery is right place for you to be displaying you art. I think it would be better suited on some Islamic website or perhaps some radical mosque. Were you get the full benefit of your two bit propaganda. Were it can shape mines willing to turn the world into a Islamic Theocracy. Later I wonder what sort of an glories image you'll make when Iran provide some Islamic Group with a nuclear weapon and they park in New York City or Tel Aviv and let it go. Gee..... I can hardly wait!

From an art point of view, this is an excellent work. Your others in the same subject vein did not get as much discussion because they were not quite as powerful in their statement as this one. I feel the the size of the flags is not true to the current situation but there is grain of truth in it. Our media would rather report on Britney Spears (yawn...hohum) than on what's really happening in our relations with other countries. I feel like I'm living in Watership Down. We are all so comfortable that our government does what it wants or what the lobbyists want and we let them. Americans do NOT want to destroy other countries but we turn a blind eye to what our government does because we've lost the ability to make them work for us. I think this is inflammatory and provoking and unfair.

Excellent!!!

EhsanA, you seem to have decided to delete your comment from Jan 17. This takes my response out of context. In particular, I think it is important to note that you admitted posting your image in order 'to provoke response'. As I said, this is trolling and is not allowed on this site. So to put things back in context, here is your comment, word by word, no modifications: --------------------------------------------------------------------- by EhsanA on Jan 17, 2009 12:33:28 pm [homepage] The image was created to provoke a response. If being an artist is to disconnect ..then I don’t want to be an artist…I’d rather be a human.. I made other social and political commentaries images before…none got this negative response. Even none of my art is religious …I was accused of being one (I guess people see what ever they believe). It is the flag again….the Taboo subject. I will keep this image loaded until Inauguration day. And then rempved And I should confirm to the norm (do some Poser or Vue images) ------------------------------------------------------------ And back to my response: by ArtPearl (online now) on Jan 17, 2009 7:02:21 pm [homepage] [delete] I deleted my comment of January 15th so that I can address some of the responses it caused. (I pasted it back at the end of this new comment). ------------------------------------------------ I am all for expressing emotions in art. You have some incredibly powerful images expressing personal emotions. Images like that may not be comfortable to watch, but they are enhancing our human experience. So, it isnt the fact that the subject matter of the war in Israel/Gaza involves horrible experiences and tragedies that make your recent images unsuitable and offensive. Only in one of these, “The last conscious”, you showed people suffering. It conveyed human suffering. I know your personal reason for creating it was the impact of the war on the Palestinians, but without the pasted on 'GAZA' it could have been about anybody in a war zone. Even the residents of the bombarded cities of Ashdod, Beer-Sheva and many more in Israel. But the more recent images, and particularly this one, do not have that transcending quality. It was a very distorted and shallow representation of the problems in the region. If this was about specific people you know or heard of, that you think have committed a crime, it would not be acceptable for you to write or present a picture in public saying 'Mr X and Mr. Y are horrible cruel monsters'. In the progressive world they are innocent till proven guilty, and your presentation would be considered liable. The same applies to countries. You can present facts, you can describe personal impact, you can volunteer your time and talents to help the needy - you dont have to, nor should you, be disconnected from world events. However, you should not just 'call names' . A big monster labeled 'Israel and US' is calling names, nothing deeper or more meaningful, and of no positive impact. Of course it is your privilege to create whatever you like, but this site claims to protect the viewers from offensive material. This is not limited to nudity or violence. It includes distortion of character, be that of a person or a nation. Posting this is trolling, particularly since you state “The image was created to provoke a response” . This is against the TOS of this site and should not be tolerated. And to those who came to the artists defense, championing the right of free speech: Yes, I'm all for it too. As I said, there is no question he should be allowed to present facts and express his opinions and feelings about those facts. But the right of free speech does not grant anybody the right to hurt others. You have the right to wave your arms around freely, but if the spot where your fist ends up is already occupied by someone's face, you cannot put your fist there. That would be assault. I'll shoulder the responsibility that you got more negative reactions on this image than on any others. I was the first to express my deep dismay, and that may have allowed others to join in. I did not do that lightly. You posted several offensive images recently, and I tried to stretch my tolerance to its limits. I guess it snapped – I am not prepared to take endless attacks for ever. Would that make me a monster? Or perhaps David fighting Goliath? ------------------------------------------ Original comment: by ArtPearl (online now) on Jan 15, 2009 5:52:21 pm [homepage] [delete] You're a very skillful artist in general and a propaganda-image maker in particular. As all propaganda it has some roots in reality to make the viewer think he recognizes the alleged scene, but so much distortion it makes the message misleading and the conclusion absolutely wrong.S

note i had to change this _after_ArtPearl revealed that this was explicitly created to provoke. artistically, i think this is excellent. i envy the visual coherence your style produces with so many different types of elements. all i can say about people's reactions, when it was about Muslims and Arabs after 9/11, i didn't see many people having a problem with the "propaganda" posted then. for years, i've been seeing similar vilifications of Arab countries and leaders, and promotion of the Iraq war when i took the time to look at World Events/Social Commentary gallery. it's not fair to require a "balanced" opinion only when it applies to negative things on one side. i very respectfully disagree that this should be taken down or is against the TOS, unless all similar works criticizing other prominent, famous, or infamous people and other countries, religions, and groups of people are taken down. or even when people make simple, strong political statements (for instance, about women and battering). because all opinions should be treated equally. yes, free speech does give you the right to hurt others with words. people, in point of fact, have no right not to be offended or have their feelings hurt. as they say, your rights end where mine begin. we all have a right to state our own opinion, but not to squash others' because it hurts our feelings or makes us uncomfortable. i could go into examples both individual and group, but i don't think this is the place. if Renderosity isn't the place for politics, then there shouldn't be a gallery specifically designed for political pictures. i would, however, suggest that this image be moved to that gallery. and Rendo is not the place for deliberately provoking works. regardless of whether it should or shouldn't be, it explicitly isn't. that said, i think all works with an equally simplistic political message should be removed as well if this is removed. on the subject matter itself, i'm not taking sides, and if i were, i wouldn't do it here.

...oh political - smolitical, as an image it's not the best or favorite of mine you've done, but it works...years ago there was some really nasty "POLITICAL" crap posted on 'Rosity. This is TAME. Maybe it's a good thing you didn't put any neekid elves in there...what vitriol you'd of provoked then...

For me your image is an asset to RR, the vast bulk of which seems a haze of plastic dolls. (I don't know if anybody has done any stats on content, but artwok that rises above the mating instinct to engage the socio-political parts of our humanity is relatively uncommon). All images are created to provoke a response - if they don't they are useless. As maudawg says above this image works. The length of comments verifies it. The conflict between the Hebrew Palestinians and the non-Hebrew Palestinians is old, complex and exceedingly messy to say nothing of its brutality. There is no artwork, nor history, nor reporting that could fairly summarize the state of affairs (nor indeed the affairs of the states) that exists in that tormented patch of earth. All artwork if it is to do its job of communication IS propaganda in that it PROPAGATES a particular perspective of the world. To brand an image as propaganda is not an adequate reason to censor a view. This particular image is effective in many different ways. It is compositionally simple, visually arresting, colourful, tonally varied, utilizes texture and movement to move the eye around the image and makes its message clear with the use of symbol and metaphor. Whether intended to or not this artwork resonates with imagery established in biblical stories such as "David & Goliath" and parts of Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation and merges them with our apocalyptic crisis of the present. Taken together these elements combine to make an image of undeniable power and relevance.