Apophysis 2.00 // 3 layers (1 flame) postwork in PSP8... I thank you for the very wonderous and encouraging comments on my previous attempts =) I appreciate it very, very much. And if you really want to know how this was done. Since you asked reposted with the how... Apophysis 2.00 of course... oddly this was the same beginning flame as in "An Arrangement" (the red one) with a new script "Pat-Add repetition symmetry" applied. Cycled through a number of gradients til I found the one that worked the best. Rendered using hqi at 1000 density (it was grainy in apophysis window) and because I am using win xp pro I can go into the task manager and set processor priorty to below normal for hqi (so I can use my pc during a render)... In PSP8 I layered first to white (didn't look all that good) so switched to black. Selected a part of the flame and copied and pasted to new image for tile. Applied a frame (circle fade) and pasted the pattern from the new image for tiling on the frame (frame was white) oddly only a section seemed to accept the paste. so duplicated the frame layer and mirrored and set blending to lighten. Merged the 2 frames and duplicated once more and this time flipped the dup layer and again set to lighten, and again merged the 2. Then applied the swirl plugin from Eye Candy 4000. Finally created a circle selection the size of the flame and inverted the selection and applied an inner bevel plug in (default in PSP8). Signed and well you see the results. Now this maybe the long way to do it, but it is what I did, until I learn more about all the tricks of the program =) And if it helps someone, I shall be fulfilled =) May every one have a safe and enjoyable weekend (and for those in the states have a safe 3 day weekend =) Namaste, Michael