I just checked a while ago- as of 1:19 am CDT, my model "Mikki" has been removed from the site. All webring logos are also gone. Looks like someone has been doing some quick updates!!! I know the thief is lurking around here somewhere, 'cos he knows we're on to him. I will say this to him: That will not be enough to save your thieving ass from prosecution. ESPECIALLY when Zygote gets flooded with all the mail that I know has been sent to them concerning the illegal distribution of their meshes. And if anyone HAS given you permission to distribute their work (which is extremely doubtful), you had BETTER post that permission in a very conspicuous place. You cannot hope to steal from an entire community, and get away with it. Thorne: an open and vocal member of this community, and damn proud of it =};-}>

You go (as the women say). That's what this guy needs a few more "thornes" in his side. (Bad pun intended) :0)

Yep my maid has been removed from their site also. Way to go team :)

Thorne as of 3:00am CDT there is still a 194K animated "Mikki" gif on the main page, (http://anas.worldonline.es/aevmulti/anima.html). PhilC the "French Maid" gif has been removed, however I tried to anticipate the sites being dismantled & went back & archived all the gifs (including the animals & animations) & HTML coding for future reference, (or evidence :-), if necessary. So if any of the injured parties need copies feel free to contact me directly.

is animated gif also a theft?

As on 13.00 european-time my cassandra is removed. I see two figures i have seen everywhere but dont remember from where they are. It's the named LOUISE and SADISMO (not the real name). Robert

Louise is the Irena character by C.Froelich Sadismo looks like the Sadie character by JohnW (Ghastley Software)

I've just received this message as an answer to my mail from yesterday: Subject: Re: Stolen Poser Figures Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:05:45 +0200 From: aev To: Robert Egli References: 1 I am not selling models. I blindfold a conversion service to format 3D MAX of free models and of models created by me. I am already in contact with the creators of some of the models to include their creator credits. At the moment I have retired the models of this type of my page. If you want, I also retire their characters, or I maintain them including their creator credit. I don't believe that a conversion service to format 3d MAX for 5 $the pattern is any abuse. Sincerely, a greeting. Robert Egli escribi > I've received a message that you use Zygotes-Meshes which are not for > sale. > Zygote is informed about that, i for my person hope you will be > contacted by a lawyer. > For my personal character Cassandra (means only texture) i must say, > this is free and must be free, means i check your site on thuersday if > this stuff isn't outplaced from this site i promise, your email-account > will be bombarded with thousands of mails from me and others. > It lies in your hands. > Hope you understand this warning. > > Robert Egli > from Switzerland SHARKEY

Herre what I got from him....total bullshits. I am not selling models. I blindfold a conversion service to format 3D MAX of free models and of models created by me. I am already in contact with the creators of some of the models to include their creator credits. At the moment I have retired the models of this type of my page. If you want, I also retire their characters, or I maintain them including their creator credit. I don't believe that a conversion service to format 3d MAX for 5 $the pattern is any abuse. Sincerely, a greeting. ------------------------- at least its over now. -Matt

Yes I told him that - but he's STILL denying it.....quite the iggnorant sonufabitch....

Yes, I received the very same message that you all did. I do believe that Zygote will give him a good talking to. I place a copyright notice in each and every model zip file that I give away, that states very plainly that the model, or character, is copyrighted and may not be redistributed in ANY FORM BY ANY MEANS without my written permission. So, "conversion service" notwithstanding, it is still theft- plain and simple.

Thorne, it might be a good idea if you put a disclaimer on your site stating that the figures on your site are the ORIGINAL ones, and that those found on other sites are not authorized. Melanie

Good idea Melanie, thanks!

Dunga, I think the problem with the animated gif is that he is using custom creations on a COMMERCIAL site without the authors' permission. People generally get paid for that sort of use.

Let me see if I understand this? Was Mikki as posted on Thorne's site something that was usable by itself? Or was it a pcf or pz3? Did this guy take that Mikki and other models and then repost them on his site as something he was selling? When I go to the site all I see are broken images and one rotating Mikki animated gif.

Also Nene...... I haven't had any contact with the site. I've just sent them a mail to remove Nene. Its the third infringiment for me. I have no word for such a shameless. And I'm really interested in what Renderosity can do.

I only distribute the Poser figures as either .pz3 files or .cr2 files, meaning you must own the original geometry from zygote in order to use them. If and when I sell my characters, it will be the morphed offsets, that is, the changes ONLY that I myself have made. So not only is he stealing from me and others, he is stealing Zygote's original geometry as well. They will not take kindly to that, I'm sure. And Allie is right. Poser already exports in .3DS format, so the "conversion service" excuse is a flimsy one.

I'm worried about what sorts of precidents this may set. For at least a year or two if not more Poser users have been able to share files via the pz3's, cr2's, and pcf files. This is the first time I know of where someone has used that and their copy of Poser to reconstruct the files into something they could sell illegally. I would hope that this doesn't have a negative impact on our ability to continue sharing the files we've been sharing legally...

I also share this concern. We have been fortunate to have been allowed to do this. I think that maybe this one thief should be dealt with VERY HARSHLY- lest there be any others out there who would have similar ideas. The thief's identity is known. Zygote IS NOW AWARE of the situation, and I understand they are dealing with the situation. As of this posting, some of my models have been removed, but some are STILL THERE. If I have to personally buy a plane ticket to Spain and deal with this $#!+ head, he'd better believe that I WILL DO IT. It's not a good idea to piss off the faeries.... we have resources that even Zygote does not... Thorne

My god, so much emotions.... and so much rudenes from Original creators ... guys, after bombarding this fellow (indirectly on this forum) with these messages, and threatening him, and abusing his nationality as i remember( somthing about spaniyards) and calling him names.... have some decency at least I don't believe in a fact that would it be a normal face to face conversation, anyone of these original authors would have spoken so harshily. At the end, he is REMOVING even textures. by the way, if I have posed a poser4 man and then eported it into max3, textured it, created a decent scene( ipossible in poser4, bryce)and then posted it on , lets say, my siteWOULD that be infringement of rights again?

Apples & oranges dunga. The answer to your question is, no posting a scene with modified figures is not an infringement of copyright. If you were selling those figures, as the "gentleman" in question, (& I use the term very loosely:-), was it would be. As to "rudeness" remember that next time you catch someone sneaking out of your house with your possessions under his arm. Will you shout "STOP YOU S.O.B.!" or quietly say "please sir the ownership of the items you have seems to be in question?

Dunga- I never defamed the man's nationality. I agree that is wrong. He is a thief, plain and simple. If that is defaming him, the he shouldn't be a thief. And you can BELIEVE I would tell him so TO HIS FACE! I have been just that close to buying an airline ticket to Spain already. You see, I take this VERY VERY seriously. We as a community CANNOT let this kind of thing happen. If you think this is an innocent misunderstanding, I will tell you I think it is outright thievery and blatant disregard for international law compounded by excuses rather than doing the right thing. I would also tell him that to his face. In fact, if he is reading any of this, I invite him to the PFO discussion concerning this matter tonight at 6 PM American Pacific Daylight Time to tell his side of it and talk as near "face to face" as we can be. I will be there. I invite you as well if you wish to be his advocate. I truly hope he has read every single word, and I will reiterate any parts of it that he does not understand. Quite frankly, I don't know what it is about "REMOVE MY ITEMS (named items) FROM YOUR SITE" that he doesn't understand. But I have nothing against the man's nationality whatsoever. ;o) Thorne

Alley, I believe his original question referred specifically to the charge that the GIF animation on the thief's site was ALSO a violation of copyright. I believe dunga's confusion understandably arises from the fact that it WAS just an image and NOT geometry. Again, in this particular instance, imho, the transgression, if any, would stem from the unauthorized use of one of our colleague's custom textures in the creation of artwork for a "commercial" site.

all this is so confusing. the problem here lies I gues in the understanding of the property rights. If I may not use meshes in created in Poser to be renedered in Max that is one thing. but if this questions extends towards animations then it is ridiculuos. why? let me explain: I have made animations, using Poser4, exported as AV into max, then posted it as a free for all, do whatever with it. then someone just used it in his artwork and sold it. It becomes same as if someone used parts of the Star wars in his movie and sold it. then the issue of buyg poser4, etc. would become obsolete. You simply cannot distribute the meshes. HEY, guys I figured out a way: just now, while typing. 1. i create a mesh, morph targeted it 2. PCF or encoded it 3. posted it on the site for sale 4. only the one who has poser can: a) use it b) decode it c) and then do whatever can do with it Is that a way? 3.

Just added my email to the flood of emails this jerk and his webmaster will be receiving. If there's anything else I can do, Thorne, let me know. Hopefully, Zygote will prosecute him and any others who might be thinking of doing this will realize, we won't be stolen from!

FYI Thorne as of 2:00am CDT your Mikki model is back up on the site in the free downloads section, this time renamed "Minnie2", although the filename remains the same. The URL is... http://anas.worldonline.es/aevmulti/downl.htm

Thanks Diane, and thanks Cooler. I'm so tired- I wrote him again and cc'd to the host, basically telling him that he was giving them the reputation of harboring criminals. The next step, as you mentioned earlier Cooler, would be to write to the host's host. Thanks again! Thorne

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GOOD NEWS! THe offending site has been deleted from the 3D Web ring also. And, I just received this reply from the hosting service- seems they have been getting a ton of mail all of a sudden for some reason.... =}:-}> Thanks to everyone for their unselfish support in this matter! Dear Sir, We are so sorry about this fact. According our procedure we have warned this user and if he doesn't modify this information from his web site we will delete his worldonline connection. This is all we can do. Yours Sincerely, World Online