Victoria 3 is out and she looks good, but, she has very limmited included morphs. The enhanced resolution is great but having practically no control over the face is a step backwards when it comes to making your own character. DAZ makes you buy another package for head morphs and yet another for body morphs. I wish they would have been much more clear before I bought because they will give a $10 discount only if you buy all three packages at once. In a big way I feel ripped off.

Even if you get everything, she's still cheaper than Vic 2 was. Laurie

gianp, DAZ has a sterling Customer representive. You might e-mail them to see if they can credit you for buying all three parts at different times. (I did.) And after talking to Reba West, DAZ gave me a $10 credit. So, if you ask nicely, maybe they will help you also. just a thought, --lordbyron

Value!!! The V2 CD has all the morphs and then clothes and it is cheaper. Come on. They think we can't download because it's to big. I have enough patience to wait for the mail. I got Mimic over the mail and I have burned some of my purchases from DAZ and Renderosity and paid the $10 and $15. Why do they put the "TO BIG?".I don't mind paying extra, but it is obvious that many people feel strongly about this, that it should have been part of the package. If anything maybe Daz will get it right next time and will be take this into account for Mike 3 or or any other upgrade. Beat it with a stick,

Laurie, I love ya, but explain to me how $79.80 for the UPGRAGDE to Vicki 3(Only discount being the ten dollars off for getting it all at once, price includes base, Universal standard res textures and head and body morphs[since she doesn't come with any out of the box]) is cheaper than $84.90 for the FULL INSTALL of Vicki 2 (again, no discounts and going by the original price, and remember, the upgrade to Vicki 2 was a total of $64.90, original price for base and one standard res texture set[Vicki 2 came with all her morphs])? The only way it's cheaper is if you have a Platinum club membership, which a lot of the newer people be reluctant to get (let's face facts, when they announced the Platinum Club here, some of the veteran members of this community were reluctant to get in on it...)if they don't yet know who DAZ3D is... Don't say that's not possible, because I had no clue who Zygote (the company DAZ3D used to be part of, for those that don't know) was when I first started here...

Putting the math aside, the fact that you needed to but more than one item (ie the morphs were extra) was very clearly spelt out on the site. I personally don't part with money unless I am sure what I am getting. Daz are very helpful and I am sure will allow you the $10 discount in retrospect. They are hot on customer satisfaction. Not everyone could have downloaded a massive file - myself included so this was a valid issue. I hope you are pleased with you Vicky, she is a most detailed, high res figure in the range and therefore surely should be more than previous ones!

I guessed someone missed this part that was clearly on each v3 page :"Save $10.00!. Purchase Victoria 3.0 Base or Base Upgrade, the Head Morph Pak, and the Body Morph Pak at the same time. (Price discounts will be given when all 3 products are in your basket during checkout)" V3 upgrade no plat discount = $23.96 Victoria 3.0 Head Morph Pak no plat discount = $15.96 Victoria 3.0 Body Morph Pak no plat discount = $15.96 total = $55.88 add the $10. discount you have $45.88 toss in a standard skin ( $19.45 ) and your at $75.33 still cheaper than V2 .

Pay attention... At the moment, DAZ3D has a 20% off sale going on Vicki 3... that's what you're basing your math on, Tas, I'm basing mine on the regular price they have listed for the items... in otherwords, the price they will go up to when the sale ends...

Philodox : If you remember and have been around since V2 came out then you know what kind of prices things cost back then. Very few Items were below $20. Daz sold most of the animals with no textures they were alwasy seperate. Things really havent changed that much. In fact there much cheaper but they also have more customers. No one ripped off gianp. Things were very clearly marked and the price is very resonable. None of us have a clue what there total outlay was to develop this product . No body is bending any ones arms to buy V3. If some one thinks it to much either buy it a piece at a time or dont buy it at all. Theres enough free things here to keep any one happy .

Get over it folks. It costs what it costs. It's up to you to decide whether or not it's worth the price. Just make sure you take several things into consideration. 1) V3 is a higher end model at a low end price, regardless of previous model pricing. If you want or need a high res, realistic model, then I suggest that it is a good value. If you don't need or want this type of figure, the sticking with V2 is your best bet. V2 is still an excellent model, and her price has gone down now because the new version is out. That is pretty standard with companies that continue support for previous versions of product, is it not? 2) DAZ has bent over backwards to provide as many people as possible with the opportunity to purchase V3 at a discounted price. That's one of the reasons for the pricing structure. People who cannot afford the add-ons, can still purchase the base model at a dirt cheap price and buy the add on packages later. You really don't realise how good we have it. Try pricing lower res humanoid meshes that aren't even poseable, let alone have as much stuff to go with it, even if you do have to purchase those items seperately. 3) Just my own brand of speculation here, but the sheer amount of work that went into creating this figure justifies the rise in price. People deserve to get paid for their efforts. AFAIC, they could have charged more and still be giving us a value. They didn't though; probabley because they understand that a lower price will mean more sales. Yes, the price will go up when the sale ends. So what?

Then again maybe the price will stay as low as it is already, from what I've seen with Daz they have a great record of price reductions & sales. Victoria 3 is a vast improvement over V1/2 & they could have charged a heck of a lot more for her, just check out turbosquid for some outrageous prices then come back & tell us that Daz is overcharging for their fantastic work.

"Yes, the price will go up when the sale ends. So what?" - Momcat

Yep, they should get paid for the work they did, and yes, I do think that Vicki 3 is worth the amount they are charging... possibly more... I'm just tired of people saying that Vicki 3 is cheaper than Vicki 1 or 2 were... If you are going to say that, at least add the simple words "currently" or "with the Platinum Club discount" before "cheaper"...

A pack too large to download? I'm amazed that anyone actually believes that... that's not a reason for breaking things up into seperately purchaseable items, or offering CD-shipping only (tho DAZ WILL make CD's available for DL if you ask - at least, they did for me). It's an excuse about the limitation of their store. Individual files can be split into several seperately downloadable "chunks" and re-integrated with standard compression utilities. The DAZ limitation is that they almost always have a $ charge associated with each file link - not that any given file is (or would be) too large to download. I often think that some of the files they do allow for download could benefit from being split into smaller chunks.

"To be honest. I'm still not really sure why I need Vicky3. The higher resolution mesh is nice, but when you consider that most of the poser community doesn't render above 1600 x 1200 images, that detail becomes some what wasted." We few animators certainly dont need all that geometry and that "firefly" renderer in poser5 Adds NOTHING to the equation ,except more render time from what im told -Wolf359, Founding Member of the "12 animators"-

Nah, firefly COULd (I reckon) improve even animations...if it weren't for a few little "issues". Personally I like the improved renders I've had, even the drafts that were quicker than Poser4 renders...but for those darned "quirks" which have yet to be ironed out. Not of Vicky3 tho...she definately looks better in P4 so far...

Antons right!! Daz backs there products, Take it back if you don't like it!!! They are the only ones who take back poser product. NO Hassle. I love Vicky3, even if it's starting over with the clothes deal. Most all the old hair fits her. It's not CL with poser5 and they Won't give back your money. Daz will! I love Daz, think it's the best company on the internet.

Anton: "I really don't understand posts like this. If you don't like her don't buy her. But why would you want to slam her or try to stop other people from buying her." AFAICS, judging from gianp's original post (the one I assume you're saying you don't understand) he/she/it couldn't follow your advise, because he/she/it didn't know how limited the base character was before purchasing. She's hugely limited compared to the base Victoria2 character, and I guess some people don't see/read all there is about a character before buying (I know I've missed loads of potential info) and base their buying decision on trust in DAz/Curious Labs/whoever. If they feel cheated when they examine their goods, is it so impossible to understand that they'd want to try and prevent others from experiencing the same dissapointment? I'm not even suggesting that gianp is saying not to buy the product - just to be aware of what it is before you get it, so as to avoid dissapointment (and probably do as I did - get the extras that "complete" the basic character to a Victoria2-style level at once). I don't think it's an anti-vendor concept. I think it's a pro-community concept.

Hey Anton!!!! Loved the shots, any ETA on the male injection kit?? Near?? Far?? I dont need more spacific that that. But I can't wait it looks great!!! Tony

I had no difficulty understanding that no morphs were included with the base V3, nor did I mind the three separate downloads (since I'm on dial-up and it took me almost all my download attempts to get them all anyway). I'm really not sure why people don't read all the information before making a purchase. Heh, I even read it all when I buy $1.99 Platinum Club products. ;) If I may ask Anton, is that the Nordic Mike texture mapped to V3 in your first image? Very good job either way. Take care. SnowS Hoping his pictures are worth 1001 words. 1001 Words

Hey Snowsultan, No that is a new one. Micah did the base maps. I then took the original photos from the M2 photoshoot and the Nordic photoshoot and started over. thanks.

Anton: You'd expect someone who feels ripped off and wants to warn others to pay more attention than they did to make a casual post about it? Did you notice the reaction to your post of a "male" Vicy3 character by tonymouse? Four exclamation marks. Two sets of double queries and then three more exclamation marks to end. This isn't, generally, a place to find drab, unenthusiastic comment - it's lively.

who3d, lol. yeah..lively alright. :)

Anyone remember when Vicki 1 made her debut? She came with no morphs at all, and her initial discount price was $69.99 if I remember right, then, for a time, the price went up to $99! I think Vicki 3 has come a long way! I do have the Platinum Club, so I got the upgrade with all the morphs and the standard res texture pack for $30-something. I consider that a bargain. And I love this character. She can do so much more than V2. I can't wait to see what Mike 3 will be like! Melanie

who3d wrote: "You'd expect someone who feels ripped off and wants to warn others to pay more attention than they did to make a casual post about it?" I'd like (but have learnt not to expect) people to use the phrase 'rip off' only where it is appropriate - because it is a commercially damaging term. If gianp 'feels' ripped off, it is clearly a form of ego defense mechanism diverting attention from that person's failure to examine what they were buying. Nothing is hidden, deliberately or inadvertently, in the promotional material for V3. There is no 'rip off'.

One can feel many things without there being a strong real-world reason for it. I'd hate to suggest censoring anything that wasn't pro-DAZ, pro-CL, or whatever. There are extremes, and an extreme aanti-DAZ (or anti-CL) post that made positive and seemingly "factual" claims that were incorrect would be abhorrant. This thread certainly didn't start out that way. I don't understand what the problem is - and that isn't some "figure of speech" which means something other than the phrase it is. Someone's unhappy. He wants people to be aware of it. some others have alternate opinions, and co-inciding opinions. I understand to that point. What I don't get is why it's wrong for them to post their feelings and/or heads-up messages.

Thanks Anton, that texture sounds very interesting. I was never able to find a Michael texture set that fulfilled my needs until Nordic Mike came out. After cloning some bits and pieces from other good textures onto him, he's now the only Mike texture I'll need for a while. :) There's certainly nothing wrong for anyone to post their feelings or a heads-up message, but threads like this seem to show up every other day. If people would just read the description of what they're buying, they'd save themselves a lot of trouble and avoid scaring off potential customers who might be considering this product. Vicky 3 and her high-res textures are pretty memory-intensive...DAZ warns us of that. She can't wear V2 clothing unless we use the included V3-V2 model...they tell us that too. DAZ even lists the included morphs on her purchase page with pop-ups listing every morph included. There's also a FAQ link on that page too that answers more questions about her. I think it's amazing that DAZ is still willing to offer refunds even after all that. Sorry, I didn't mean to make that sound like a rant. :) Just my opinion as always. Take care. SnowS

who3d: "What I don't get is why it's wrong for them to post their feelings and/or heads-up messages." How would you like it if I said I 'feel' you, who3d, are a liar (and offered a public announcement to the 'community' about it), based on nothing more than my own mistaken interpretation of something you'd said? I'll be so bold as to suggest that you'd be a mite pissed off about it - and damn well rightly so. This thread was begun with a claim of feeling 'ripped off'. Not 'disappointed', not 'confused' - but 'ripped off'. Here's the relevant definitions of 'rip-off': Function: noun 1 : an act or instance of stealing : THEFT; also : a financial exploitation Not very nice is it? Not only is it inaccurate and misleading to use the term in respect of the circumstances of gianp's purchase of the Victoria3 base figure; it is straight out bloody slanderous. There is nothing wrong with someone making folks aware of what a purchase does and doesn't consist of; there's nothing wrong with pointing out that folks have to get it 'right' when buying. But there's something very wrong with saying you feel 'ripped off' just because you weren't aware and didn't get it right yourself.

PJF Ohh, you nearly sucked me in. Why must there be so much bile?

I don't know about all the slams on V3. I was hesitant due to my limited funds but when the discounts started adding up and add to that the extra benifit of my PlatinumClub discounts, I couldn't resist and added the textures and Blunt Hair and Still came out like a bandit better than my initial purchase of V2! However I must add that DAZ is just plain EVIL, evil, evil, evil! Everytime I think I have all I need they come out with another 'Must Have Deal'!! But like SnowSultan, I'm on dial up so I opted for the CD burn. Now I gotta wait for that snail to hurry up and get my mail-order bride here!!! Evil DAZ, Evil DAZ, Evil DAZ!!

V3 ROCKS!!

Okay...I'm done. Just thought I would express my personal opinion of her. ;o)

who3d: "Why must there be so much bile?" Perhaps you should address that question to the originator of this thread.

PJF that one post was worth this much response, was it?

Wolf wrote... >"firefly" renderer in poser5 Adds NOTHING to the equation I like the reflections!

LOL, who3d, you keep responding; you tell me.

Anton, Im not Knocking V3 But those face morph/effects you showed would be better handled by displacment maps in a real character animation studio environment complexHI plygon geometry like that Looks good in stills But is a waste of render resources in an animated action sequence with a real render engine thats my only point about her geometry but the model V3 Looks great overall You Should be too concernerd about the Slams on your victoria models By "posette" loylists and the like. we all know that the millenium models (Vic1,2,3) and the Mikes are the best. as far as the "firefly" renderer 'ill let the reports from the field speak for themselves.

Well, I've seen FF renders from artists who are trained and experienced with the product, and FF renders from artists who aren't. Most (or perhaps all) of the complaints seem to be from folks who are still learning how to use the program and take advantage of all the new options.

Please go take a look at turbosquid. IF you can find a model of Vicky 3's quality and versatility it will probably cost you around $200+. Believe me, we're getting over. -Mark

well this thread was deeply pointless You pays your money you takes your chances. Read the fine print shrug Pheonix, trust me, I know how you feel. Go make a nice hot cuppa and make something neat :) My only concern is that since I'm doing a graphic novel, I'd really, really like a lo-res Mike. I don't think there's one at DAZ, right? Which means that for male bkg characters I'm limited to Dork. feh Lo-res vickie works just great :) Lyrra "If you can't say something nice ... don't say anything at all" Madril

Lyrra, there is a lo-res Mike. I have him. I'm not sure if he was a freebie or what, but I do have one. It came with both standard low-res Mike and the P4 body. Melanie

So how come I can't FIND lores mike on DAZ? grrr Sometimes that interface just annoys the heck outta me. Well I'll give it another whirl now that I noe it actually exists Thanks!

He's going under the name "Michael 2.0 Reduced Resolution Figure", I'd put the link in but....

I thought we weren't supposed to put links to other stores in the poser forum any more, or did the PTB change their minds on that one?

your probley right but look who the link was for :) besides she kind of ask for in in a round about way.

good points, so it's ok if someone asks for it but not if you just post it to advertise your own product, makes sense :)

I hope so :)

Bingo! There's a big difference between someone coming up and going, "Hey, you want to buy my product, right?!?" and someone saying, "I'm looking for X, anyone know where to find it?" or even, "Hey, I saw X the other day, and it was cool!" Newspapers charge for restaurant ads. Restaurant reviews or reader-submitted letters to the editor about restaurants are free.

crescent was absolutely right :) Thanks C1rcle and Ratteler. That's exactly what I was looking for :) (And BTW - I don't get any special rights. Unless I'm doing mod stuff, I obey the rules just like everybody else.) Lyrra