I wasn't sure where else to post this but I see a ton of renders of outdoor scenes. My question is this: Do you build the foreground of the scene before the backdrop? Or vice versa? Are there any good websites for reading about artistic suggestions regarding computer created art? In layman's terms anyways. lol I'd appreciate any input. Thanks, Kara

Hi Kara, I'm not sure about any sites which explain this. Personally, all I know came from High School art classes and later, through some oil painting classes I took. and from some books. FWIW, I tend to start with a theme, which leads to an overall idea. I tend to look at it in that the middle ground is going to be the point of interest, and try to add elements to the scene which either lead the eye into that, or at least enhance it. I want a foreground which doesn't detract from the main subject, but adds depth, and a distant ground which complements the subject, but again, doesn't distract. And, lighting, lighting lighting! A great camera angle is a good thing, but I really think the lighting makes a huge difference between a mediocre scene and a great scene, especially in CG. Great lighting can actually take something mediocre or average and make it great, regardless of the subject matter. My thing tends to be strong contrasts in lights and darks, although lately I've been working on color contrast/compliment more than lighting contrasts. And, when you have no ideas, but you want to do something, try some lighting experiments... often they can lead to good pictures. Fortunately this is much easier in CG than it is in traditional media.

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I tend to put my point of focus together first then add primary foreground and background elements in and pick away at the details wherever they are needed. I think what I'm going to start doing is sketching out ideas for scenes ahead of time so I have a better idea of whats going where and hopefully improve my efficiency. If you're looking for composition resources, the linked thread might help you. Rich

I almost always start my scenes from scratch without much of an idea of what I'm going to create (I'm VERY disorganized...LOL). When it looks good, I render. If I get hung up, I leave it alone for a couple weeks, months, whatever. I usually follow the rule and go from corner to corner with the visual line...at least I try. Laurie

I always have a heck of a time getting depth. It always seems everything ends up up close or it vanishes. Make things bigger and it looks wierd. Indoor and out door I just can't seem to get it right. I have gotten lucky a coupld times but it sure doesn't come easily.

I'm another LaurieA ! I start by looking at the blank screen for ages, then I usually add a terrain, push it as far back as it will go without disappearing then go from there! But yes, lighting is THE most important bit. I was taught that, once you know what you want to do, start with the background, define the vanishing point and the horizon, then do the middle then the foreground. But with Vue you can do it any way you darn well feel like!

Damn!! I'm late again ;) I'm at this very moment working on a tutorial related to lighting and image composition techniques. It may take up a few web pages though, because I could talk about the subject for hours and hours ;D Although it sounds like I'm very much like Mike, in that I spend most of my time on lighting a scene...composition is equally important. The difference to the same scene, with different composition techniques can be amazing. For example; a high camera position looking down at a character in your scene, can make your character look weak and vulnerable, yet a low camera position looking up can make your character look powerful...see, I told you I could go on and on about the subject! ;) More to come in the tutorial :) Cheers

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Looking forward to it, Cheers! :) I also start with the middle ground because that's where my main point of interest will be (usually). When that's looking good to me, I can see what's needed for the background and add that. Then enough of something in the foreground to lead the eye into the image. When it comes to displaying a sense of depth, Mike's gallery is a must-visit. He promised us a tutorial some long while back, but... ;)

I am not sure this is the best place to ask this, but here goes. As an example, let us say that you plan a scene with a Poser figure, Vue background and some props. The question is which software is the final composition created in? Do you import the Vue background into Poser and then render the figure, props and background there? or Do you import your Poser figure into Vue, set up all the props and scenery and render it in Vue. I am trying to get into a good "scene building" habit and would like some direction. Bruce

Usually I'll import the Poser figure into Vue, or other 3D app such as Cinema 4D XL. Theer is no hard and fast rules though, and having an image map background (that was rendered in Vue), placed in Poser is a alternative. The only problem with this approach, is that you have to ensure that the lighing of the Poser figure matches that of the background image. This thread has been dead for a while, but I'm glad you brought me back here bbrachman...I'd forgotten about the (now half written) tutorial I had started. I might just finish it now ;o) Cheers

I would most definitely render it in Vue, but that's just my personal preference :o). Laurie

Ditto. I find Poser difficult to compose a decent scene in, but that may just be because I have a few years' experience with Bryce, and now Vue. The lighting in particular doesn't work well for me. So although I do some renders in Poser, 8 times out of 10 I import the Poser figures/scene into Vue and put it together there. Works best for me!

Thanks everyone. Matching lighting in two separate programs may be beyond my ability. My only complaint is that I purchased Vue 4 because they added "PZ3" import. I did not read the fine print that Vue has problems importing native Poser 5 files. Most have Poser 4 still on their machines and can get around it. I do not. Grouper may help. I will try my next "scene" by bringing everything into VUE and using it as my final rendering software. Again, thanks for all the great input. Bruce

You can always export from Poser as .obj and import into Vue. I think you would be better off rendering in Vue especially if you have any kind of complex light and shadow going on. BTW- What ever happened to Varian after he stepped down as a mod? Has anyone heard from him? Rich