I've had enough and the new moderator Kevin's very pleasantly worded rebuff is the straw that broke the camel's back. All my freestuff has now been removed along with all my images in the gallery. They weren't that special anyway. I'll be breaking the links to my animations that are dotted through the forums, that might take a little while. It's been pleasant knowing you all. My tips and tricks section will remain on RDNA for anyone interested in animation. I guess there's a spare place now amongst the twelve, Bob that probably makes you 6 of 12 now. Have nice lives....

Gosh, I don't know what happened between the two of you, or what it was that was said to bring you to this.....but, frankly, I do understand. It happened to me over at the Vue forum, and I haven't been back there since. ): I do love comming to these forums when I have a chance, to learn, to see all the wonderful images, to just be a part of it........but, when a person is offended, for what-ever reason, it does make it difficult to go back. I am not over, my "pissed" off period, but maybe, someday, I will be.........and I will go back.....Hopefully, you can too. Hang in there, when you are ready, DO IT, otherwise.........sit back and........let by-gones, be by-gones...........(: Genny

saxon, it was not my intention to turf you out of here. I simply wished to make sure that there weren't links to hard core sites from here. Nothing more. Kevin.

Saxon. Hope this can be resolved. I'd miss you. Thanks for all the great tips over the years and do what you need to do to be happy. Regards, Q

I had intended to merely say that you were the new Marshall in Dodge and that you were clearing out the baddies and that I hadn't realised I was one of them. But, let's get one thing straight, 1st-shock.com is and always has been purely a poser animation site. Yes, it's erotic as are a great many sites associated with 'rosity members and yes it has nudity but nowhere near as much as the galleries here of course. Your last sentence gives entirely the wrong impression and frankly I resent your intrusion. Unless you want a repeat of the great art versus porn debate I suggest you keep out of the threads until you've learnt some etiqette. Of course you have the power to merely erase the entire thread, it'll be interesting to see if you do...

Oops sorry cross posted thanks Q and Genny. I just wanted to say goodbye to my friends without being branded...

No, I won't be deleting it. That would only make things worse. And I really, sincerely, wasn't trying to brand you but to explain. If I've come across badly and upset you, I apologise. But I do have to say this: On your site's front page it clearly states "WARNING: Highly erotic pornographic Adults only site" and linking to or advertising to such sites goes against the TOS which clearly states that "Members/Users will not use this community for;... Advertising or linking to any publications and/or web sites that are age restricted due to content, and/or pornographic in nature." All I asked, politely, was that the linking and advertising be removed, and I'll be asking the same any time I come across such links or adverts whoever should post them. Thanks, Kevin.

Honestly Saxon, it sounds like a big misunderstanding, and that Kevin (kbennett) is trying to apologize and explain his actions. If he is simply enforcing the rules/guidelines that are here for us all, and has the power to do so, I do not see why you are getting so bent out of shape. I have not visited your site, but if it has less nudity than the galleries here, it sounds like the warning on your site might be over stating what is inside. Nudity and pornographic are entirely different things. Before you completely leave the site forever, you might want to take a day, calm down and then decide. Making a decision when you feel that your feelings have been hurt isn't always wise. Just a thought. Whatever your final decision is, take care.

Saxon, I'll be really sorry to lose you. Whether we clash or agree, your words in this forum are important and worth reading. Your help and advise and animations are invaluable. Please remember that we never have to accept another's label. It didn't work for "Binky the Clown", and it won't work for us. We are each individual and have to be understood and accepted for who and what we are. {hug} Carolly

Kevin is following the rules of this site. Our TOS says: Members/Users will not use this community for; Advertising or linking to any publications and/or web sites that are age restricted due to content, and/or pornographic in nature. We did not pull your items, you did at our request. We did not ask you to remove your whole gallery, only the images and links that broke our TOS. The rest of your actions are up to you. Also, re-posting links to porn sites as you just did again, is not a good plan.

Kevin, at the very top of this I said "very pleasantly worded rebuff". That post should have been it, no need for anything else, just the usual swansong thread of a member saying goodbye. I agree that you were in the right and my intention was to leave without causing offence. However, Spike, Kevin's reply meant I had to try to put things back into perspective, 'hard core' has very different connotations and the connection with Poser had to be made. The links to the animations were from my site which I shall not name again. Purely a piece of housekeeping to tidy things up. Carolly, thanks for the hug! I have feelings, I have tried to help others, I've even tried to defend Poser 5 (remember the hair thing!) maybe I became complacent and thought that in a thread about the commercial aspects of Poser that discussed in depth the suitability of Poser for making erotica, mentioning my site might be OK. I was wrong and I'm prepared to pay the price. Let's all just blame the artist's persona...

Or the new mod's crappy choice of words. I hope all goes well saxon. With respect, Kevin.

No big deal, We don't want you to leave, or for that matter be upset. We just have rules that we have to follow. Please don't make it more than it is. Your tone in this thread has bought you a lot of respect from me. I for one wish you will stay around. Spike

Invites everyone over to the Tavern. New Poser Mods are buying the first Round of drinks ;] ladynimue

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12359&Form.ShowMessage=1056850

Advertising or linking to any publications and/or web sites that are age restricted due to content, and/or pornographic in nature Not trying to stir up anything here, but people keep saying Rsity is an adults only site because of the age requirement we supposedly put on membership. You can't be below 18 and a member. So while I'm not advocating we throw open the doors and allow any ol' porn site we see to just come in and put their feet up, how do we justify this somewhat odd rule... and I say "odd" only in the sense of our age restriction for membership? Just curious, guys, nothing more.

From the sign up page: we ask that anyone under the age of 15 receive written permission from a parent before joining our service. We don't have an age limit, only ask that anyone under 15 have written permission from a parent. Members do post some images and posts that some adults might not want there kids seeing. If "People" are saying that this is an adult site, they would be incorrect. The TOS covers all this and that is one reason we have it. We do want this site to be used by all.

Erm... I don't want to start anything, but how can any site enforce that? My son could easily have written you a note, forging my name, when he was underage! How would you tell? I am really curious here, don't take it as criticism. Heike

We can't.. We leave that part up to the parents. What's to keep your kid from looking at hardcore porn now? By putting the info we do on the sign-up page, we are letting the parents know what type of site we are. We can't keep kids off our site and don't want to, that's why we try and keep this site porn free in the first place. Hope I helped some...

saxon, My #7 simply means that I was the seventh one mentioned in a particular thread. Losing you won't make me #6. However, it will make us all less. I don't see how anyone wins. However, I do wish you the best of luck with whatever choice you make.

Saxon, I've always admired your work - some of the best Poser animation. I haven'r read the thread you refer to, but given your description of the context, I can see where you thought mentioning your site was appropriate. I can also see how the moderators would object, given the PG-13 image Renderosity wants to maintain. I hope you'll consider it that way and not leave. It's not surprising that erotica is a touchy subject with the variety of people who visit here. Lord knows there've been enough debates over plain old nudity and there are some who have a very low threshold for what they consider 'pornographic.' Whether it's protecting the kiddies or protecting nu-be from his ever-lovin', I'd give the PTB the benefit of the doubt. My (probably unwanted) advice is to just suck it up (no porn pun intended) and stay with us. PS. Dude, I'd join your site but given a limited porn budget, I have to go with real over Poser generated, no matter how good. Keep up the good work :-)

I had a message with a link yanked also. I'm a little frustrated that we can't have a discussion where people can point out things of interest to other Poser users because they're adult in nature. I understand that's it a violation of the precious terms of service, but it seems hypocritical when so much of site is built around "naked Vicky in a temple with a sword" images. Other members had also posted links in the same thread, and before they were deleted I saw some stuff I wasn't aware had existed, but now that info has been removed for our protection. I spent over $1000 in the Renderosity store last year, and now I have been told I'm a violator with a friendly but stern "first warning" on my permanent record. I was asked not to be offended, but I am. I'll continue to do business in the store, and I'll read messages here, but I won't post anymore as long as Kevin is a mod. I don't appreciate someone following along behind me and deleting my messages. He was well within rights to do so, but the heavy-handed atmosphere here is just too much for me. The new sheriff takes his shiny little badge way too seriously. -Jeff

Well, I wasn't going to respond to that until I got to the last sentence. I do take the responsibility of moderating a forum as large and as busy as this one very seriously indeed. As moderators, we're charged with two things: helping out other members, and making sure the site's rules are obeyed. Most of the time those two things do not conflict with each other, but inevitably there will be occasions when they do. I'm sorry, Jeff, that you feel as you do toward posting in here whilst I remain but that is, of course, your perogative. Remember though, that if someone violates a rule that affects you in any way I will be on their case just as quickly as I was on yours. Kevin.

If you had sent me message asking me to change my post, or simply edited out the link, I wouldn't have been offended. It was a really interesting conversation, though, and I was removed entirely from it, which I take personally. I've been a member here since way back when Willow was running it as the Poser Forum Online, and every month Bondware shows up on my credit card, but now I have a "first warning" attached to my account, and the TOS waved in my face, so yeah, I'm a little peeved at the stern tone and warning of your IM. If you had just said "Hey, please don't do that anymore", I'd have had no problem, but the "consider this your first warning" line really sticks in my craw, especially when using my credit card here. This is a forum, but a lot of the message posters here are also Bondware customers, and as a customer, I don't appreciate the heavy-handed reprimand by Bondware management, which I consider you to be a representative. Jeez, from looking in some of the other forums here, sometimes you people act like the TOS was handed down to Moses on stone tablets. Just because you can use the delete key doesnt mean you always should. The marketplace is important to me, but there's a really uncomfortable feeling in the forums, and I don't think open discussion is fostered here with the sword of kbennett hanging over my head, so I'll refrain from further posting. I've got one strike against me now, and I don't want to risk my account further by saying the wrong thing, as you seem like a moderator who is a little too eager to moderate. -Jeff

Ladynimue, No offense meant, but an invitation to go have drinks usually means something to celebrate... and I see nothing to celebrate in this thread. Losing the members who contribute and help and answer questions, no matter what their background, experience, or other business, hurts. Every loss hurts. Why don't you moderators privately ask a member to edit his/her own post in cases like this? That way the discussion can continue without holes. This also treats the member with respect and implies that they are trusted to act responsibly given the reminder. If the member can't edit the post because of replies, then nicely ask "Would you rather that we remove the link or do you wish to delete the post and repost it without the link?" If the poster had provided the link to save typing out information, this response to the problem allows them to reword their message. Given that naked women in cages are sold in the Marketplace, this problem will come up again and again in the Forums. Establishing a graceful procedure which doesn't slap down people until they deserve it would be beneficial. Carolly

There seems to be general agreement on the right of the moderators to enforce the rules as they exist. Surely though, the "First Warning" stuff is a stray bit of script from the unreleased 'Renderosity for Pre-Teens' site. Whether people are paying customers or not, there is no good reason for such an authoritarian approach for dealing with a simple oversight. Permanent record? What's next, an enemies list? I'm sorry Saxon, I now understand you decision to leave and wish you well.