How about when you guys make, for instance, a new texture for a product, you give the link to where the original product or model can be found. Very often, we get a very nice piece of work stating it is for such and such, but with Poser content coming from several places, it is near impossible to figure out where to find it.... Is it against Renderosity rules to list competing marketplaces???? I would think not as the DAZ content is discussed here quite openly..... So...when you show your killer texture, please provide a link to the original model, clothing item, and so forth...even if it is here in the marketplace, but definitely for the sites existing outside of this one.

Oh, that would be such a great help. It seems like it's a "given" that we all know where something originates but I often don't so I skip a texture because I don't want to go on the treasure hunt. And new people definitely have more of a problem tracking down certain items. This is a good idea.

I totally agree. There is many a time when I have to wonder aimlessly about trying to locate original models to accompany the many great textures and addons made available.

Hear, hear!!

Unfortunately there is an unwritten rule here that prevents people linking or posting links or much of anything else to other sites as Renderosity considers this unfair competition. One might get away with linking to the front page of a site but not if it's a "competing" site and certainly not if it's an item in a store. It still hasn't sunk through the skulls of the PTB that this is a community and there is no competition between sites but there would be co-operation if 'rosity could just get a clue. Anyway, it's all discussed at some length in the Team Contact Forum when they banned Rena from posting the PWFW updates in here to let members know because of this unwritten, sketchily detailed rule. Vendors cannot post links to or promote (tell people) about their files in this forum. That also is a rule that's enforced but seemingly not for some. Sorry, you'll have to take that one up with the distant and not entirely present powers that be.

Well, it's too bad because I think it hurts sales of textures and related products. I won't buy something if I don't know ahead of time that the original product is available for my use. I got burned on that once and it will never happen again if I can at all avoid it (and that one time was when it was unclear to me that a second product was needed to use the first, and it turned out the second product was too expensive for me to purchase). It seems if vendors are able to advertise offsite items on the forums, then marketplace vendors should be allowed to provide a way to obtain related products that are not offered on Renderosity. Rather then restricting the marketplace more and more (and it seems as if that is the trend), Renderosity would benefit from a more relaxed attitude. But I'm not trying to make money off the site so what I know? I just spend money here...and less then I would if they would change the policy. My two cents.

I agree with you, JHoagland just recently got hit with this nonsense when he was answering a question about Mat Poses and he said he made a utility that made them, included a link to the store so members could go look and had his post deleted as a result. It's not the first time, it won't be the last and it's just one of this silly things that happen around here. :)

such silliness. this was supposed to be a place where folks could come for help. Now it's more like you need more help after you visit. Oh well. Anyway. A workaround would be to post the link in the readme file.

I know we've kicked a few posts that had what I call "spam" links - where a vendor wandered into a thread, answered a question and said, "by the way, this has nothing to do with the thread but check out my product." That sort of tactic gets the post moved or deleted because it's advertising. We also move posts that are vendors going "Hey, hi there, please drool over the huge picture that just happens to feature my product at ____. That's all I had to say." (Even if the product is sold at Rendie we move ads like that to the Product Showcase Forum.)

Thanks for bringing this up. We mods and admins need to be on the same page on this issue. (We try to be fair and consistant, but sometimes we misunderstand a rule, apply it the wrong way and all hell breaks loose. And, yes, I understand how annoying it is on the members' side when inconsistancies pop up!)

I believe that links to products relevant to the post are just fine but I asked the admins to please give a public explanation on this as there has been some confusion by some of the mods. (Hopefully I'm not one of them!)

Thanks!

Cres

I appreciate what you're saying Crescent and I remember the discussion that moved the vendor advertising out of this forum because it was starting to get flooded with reposts of WIP this and that and Coming Soon, but it's not stopped there. Admin and mods have interpreted this to mean various things but mainly "no linking". Long argument in Team Contact where Clint made it pretty clear that linking to a freepage (independant site) was ok or the front page of a commercial (non-competing) site was ok(ish) but the situation wasn't really resolved as such and as you know, there's still some confusion, and not just amongst mods. Thanks for noticing though, be nice if it ever did get sorted out properly. :)

This is an interesting thread. I was just thinking and wishing along the same lines as this thread's original poster about associated products. I won't give a texture product a second look if I have to hunt down the product it's for. I'm a texture artist, but I do occasionally buy other's textures I deem of considerable quality that I can use and for which I see no reason to reinvent the wheel so to speak. I actually do this quite often. I think why should I trouble myself with making this kind of great texture when so and so has already done such a fine job? It would be really nice if, when those great textures and props are for some great products by others, that the maker of the texture or addon be able and make a point to tell us where to get the original product. If it can't be in the form of a link for some reason, then perhaps it can be a statement something like: "for so and so's this and that at such and such place." This way, it may not be as easy as a link, but at least we'd be able to find the original product.

"for so and so's this and that at such and such place." >This way, it may not be as easy as a link, but at least > >we'd be able to find the original product. That would be great...just something to avoid having to search 35 sites for a product you have no idea where it may be.... People that have been here for awhile "may" have a pretty good idea as to the whereabouts of a particular vendor or product, just by experience, or we can always ask LD :) but I can't imagine a new Poser addict having a clue. Its hard enough for a new guy just to start using Poser :) With the ever expanding product line, it is now nearly impossible to keep track of it all...all the sites, all the stores....its hard enough just to find stuff here if someone says they have a texture for something. ...hopefully we all can come to a useable solution to this.

We have a queue of mods going, "C'mon, c'mon, post the answer!" ;-) The second method that mabfairyqueen listed is no problem: saying, "Go to x site, click on y page, then z link." The only question is the direct link to the actual page. Thanks for being patient while we get this sorted out. (Rumor has it that one or two of the admins have illegally gotten a life outside of Rendie.) Cheers!

Even for those of us who have been around, there are new sites cropping up or older ones which we haven't visited in a few months... we can't keep track of the sites, much less all of the products or freestuff items! There are thousands and thousands of items and Little Dragon is the only one with a massive database (and I wonder how he manages to keep it current). Saying that something is a texture or add-on for an item at another site isn't going to prevent us from spending money at this site.... it will simply make this site more valuable. Even if there is a "competing" product in the Marketplace, it probably won't affect sales of that product. I don't have ALL of the available dragons, just most of them. :) And enough castles to stock England and Scotland combined... with a few left over for Wales. Telling me that a texture is for a castle at so-and-so's site isn't going to stop me from shopping for castles here, too. There are people who talk about Vicky's wardrobe being so much bigger than their own, or who compare her skin textures... the model and a large selection of her clothes and textures are sold at a dozen other sites, but I doubt if it stops people from drooling over the Marketplace items for her. Carolly

To me it's pretty simple. If a Renderosity vendor can say "This product is stand-alone, but can also be enhanced or combined with Blah product at SomewhereOnline.com", that can only increase his chances of selling the damned thing. And ergo, increase Rosity's bank balance. What's the fuss? I remember when I first started work in a camera store, and shortly afterwards, another camera store opened not too far away. My boss's reaction? "Great!" he said, and immediately went to talk to the new store's owner. He arranged a reciprocal deal where, if we didn't have a certain camera in stock, we'd send the customer to the other store, and vice-versa. He explained to me that this is called 'creating an area'. If customers know there are 2 similar stores close together, they're more likely to go to that area, knowing that if you don't get what you want in one store, you'll find it in the other. In other words, cooperation attracts customers. The Poser net isn't that big a place, and everybody knows who gives good service and who doesn't. Take a look at the letters praising DAZ. They ain't afraid of 3rd party vendors. They welcome them. I rest my case. mac

My biggest gripe these days is merchants who have absolutely never taken any time to contact their customers about anything. Heck, customers are not even notified when a merchant pulls his/her merchandise from Renderosity. And we're not told where the Merchant has the new store. When a merchant pulls his/her merchandise and moves it to another site, is there some sort of "reciprocal" support arrangement there?!

A texture artist should include a readme with every texture explaining what it is, who made it, what model it belongs on and who made the model and how to contact them in case of trouble. ALSO if it is possible the texture artist should put the name of the model and their signature on the texture as well, or at least in the name. Example: "48 textures for the DAZ Wedge Hair", "LM_redhead_kozwavehair.jpg" As for the "no advertising" rule... it's is exactly that. NO ADVERTISING. Links to other 'competing' sites? sure! knock yourselves out ... as long as the owner of a subscription site is not doing the linking. So Steve and Rena could NOT post updates in the subscription section in this forum. (they could post them in the Showcase forum) Freestuff at ANY site, subscription or not, is perfectly OK. Linking to Poserworld's Freestuff is perfectly fine. Mentioning freebies at Poserstyle, 3Dcommune, Batlabs, or weherever is a good thing. You think I can remember to check all of these place myself? grin People who have freestuff sites can mention them all they like. People who like a product can post links. The MAKER of the product can't. Sorry. AND LASTLY If the membership at large feels that they would like this rule revoked, they may feel free to request this publicly in the Team Contact forum. However, I would suggest you look at the volume of posts in the product showcase, and then try to imagine what it plus the regular forum would be like to navigate. Lyrra the Returned

That makes perfect sense for here in the forums. I'm not for certain, but I took it as the original poster of this thread was referring to product pages in the market place (as much as in the forums) where a texture pack is made for an item, but the product page doesn't state where that item can be found. What are the do's and don'ts for that and don't people agree that a additive product would sell better if people knew where to get the item the package was for? It's in the merchant's best interest to make the original product they're adding to easy to find even if it is in the same market place.

Okay, I was hoping that one of the big guys would post the answer here, but they posted it in the Mod Forum.

Quick answer - I was right!

Long answer:

Direct links are okay if:

1. They are in response to a question:
   "Hey, I'm looking for a stick, where can I find one?"
   "Well, check out Stickman's Stick Collection, volumes I - V, at sticksgalore.com/store."

It doesn't matter if another member posts the location or Stickman does.

1. It's a member not affiliated with the merchant remarking on a product:
   "Wow! I didn't realize just how many types of sticks there are until I saw Stickman's Sticks at sticksgalore.com/store!"

2. It's a free add-on to a commercial product:
   "I just made a neat brown texture for Stickman's sticks. Oh, you need the buy the Stick Volume IV at sticksgalore.com/sticks5 to use the textures."

Direct Links are NOT okay if:

1. The link has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
   "Help, I can't get Vicki's eyes to cross properly."
   "Yeah, that is a problem. Check out sticksgalore.com/store"

or even

"Help, I can't get Vicki's eyes to cross properly."
"Well, set REye to -9 and LEye to +9. And while you're here, check out sticksgalore.com/store"

1. The merchant starts a post about the commercial product. That's what the Product Showcase Forum is for.
   "Need sticks? Come to sticksgalore.com."
   or
   "Hey, I found a neat new way to do dancing sticks. Buy my Sticks Collection Volume VI to see how it works."

Mind you, if a merchant posts about how to do a technique, explains the technique, and mentions at the end that one of their products has a good example on how to do it, that's okay. (Yes, it's a bit of a gray area, but we're trying to balance sharing knowledge with advertising.)

Now, if we see a pattern of "coincidental questions" about products, we will look into it.

What does this mean?

"Hey, I'm looking for sticks that have jagged edges."
"Well, I just released my Jagged Stick collection 5 minutes ago at sticksgalore.com/jaggies"

2 days later ...

"I need sticks that bend at 38.26 degrees."
"Oh, well, you're in luck. My Bended Sticks package was released 10 minutes ago at sticksgalore.com/bendies and if you act fast, you can get 3 double-bent sticks for free."

3 days after that - same posters again ... you get the idea.

Hopefully this is clear. We don't want anyone to abuse the system by pretending to need a product so a merchant can post an ad in a non-commercial forum, such as the Poser Forum. It's not fair to all the merchants who play by the rules. I know we've bumped some posts for the reasons above.

If this needs any clarification, please let us know. We're floating some ideas on how to make this easier and clearer for everyone. Thanks for your patience!

Lyrra, that's been one of the bones of contention. Posts have been deleted by mods and admin (most especially by admin) because they contain links off-site or into the RMP. While it doesn't make sense, that's how it's been for a little while now and nobody ever really cleared up what was and wasn't allowed. The example I used with JHoagland was just a recent example. Anyway, seems that someone arrived at a decision. :) Thanks Crescent, nice to see this nailed down in relative terms. Any chance that something to this effect could be added to the forum faq or whatever document it applies to? This post will get buried eventually and it'll be easier to find the outline in something permanently linked from the top. Yeah, I know that means cleaning up the verbiage and stuff, but it would be nice. Anyway, thanks.

I want to take a few days and see what people say before suggesting that to the admins. I won't give out names or instances, but at least a few posts that have been nuked were because someone did one of the "don'ts" above, and other people took that to mean no links were allowed at all. There has also been some misunderstanding on what is and is not okay. I know that there have been backroom discussions on whether direct linking is okay, and there's been some contention. This is why I asked for a definitive ruling, so we won't have these problems in the future (I hope.) Most people have been good, but there's been a few repeat offenders, so occasionally a post gets rightfully nuked, and once in a while we make a mistake and yank a valid post. Cheers!

OK. Just please, don't forget huh? Too many things get forgotten in the panic around here. :)

Hey crescent? Any idea where I can get some neat sticks? LOL. mac

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-Jeff