I wasn't issued the Special Bryce Secret Handshake Code or something. Two of my images have made the hot 20 in the Bryce galleries. I don't show my images to just anyone, although I could. Those few people decided to vote for me. I didn't ASK them to vote for me. My image was INUNDATED with the most venomous and hateful comments I believe I have ever seen. Well geeze, I'm just fucking SORRY, I don't live up to that little clique's expectations. Or I haven't been given permission to make the Hot 20. Out of the 13 comments my image got, at least 9 of them were accusing me of self voting myself into the hot 20. Excuse me, isn't that trolling? Aren't we adults here? For two seconds I considered giving the link to eveyrone on my buddylists. I can assure you, I would have gotten well over 150 votes that way. I didn't, and I wouldn't, though SERIOUSLY I thought I was going to. I've been using Bryce since version ONE and I can STILL remember the AOL forum when Kai Krause was around. And I have NEVER seen such hateful crap as I saw this week on Renderosity. AgentSmith, I hope you are paying attention.

I'm not sure what you are talking about but none of your images are in the Bryce hot 20. And all 6 of your images in your gallery have nice comments, nothing negative. Am I missing something here?

Trust me, I've been paying attention all along. Trolling is where an individual would go to multiple/various places, leaving non-constructive type comments. In cases like this, I check the member names of the people who left you comments, none were reapeaters. The gallery can be, at times, a harsh thing. You put your art out there for people to see, who knows what you're going to get. The members who left slighted comments reguarding your pic making it to the Hot 20; I can only guess they didn't see it as Hot 20 material, that plus it recieving 16 votes & a handful of comments (at that time) where the #2 pic recieved 11 votes & around 30 comments, which is by a master of an artist. I'm not putting your pic down by saying any of that, I'll admit the Hot 20 artists kick my butt daily, no sweat. All I can suggest is to not allow comments on your pics. I know that sucks, but it is the only way to avoid public comments. AgentSmith

DarkSwan has deleted from his gallery the picture in question, Aldaron.

I know who voted for my image. The images I am posting are for a COMMERICAL card game. The test players get quite excited when I finish an image, and if I show it to them, they vote for it. Needless to say I don't show them ALL of the images, nor do I post ALL of the images. None of them are artists and they didn't KNOW to post comments. Which is EXACTLY why I left the comment on my newest image. Normally I don't even post on Renderosity at ALL because of the petty jealousy crap that goes on DAILY. If I were the vindictive sort, I could easily swamp the hot 20 by just publishing the link to any image I post, but since I'm NOT that kind of person, I won't. Its a real pity, too, cause my employers are often in the market to hire artists, but I can personally guarentee that they would never hire any of the people that so throughly trashed my image. And BTW, Agent Smith, I'm a girl.

Argh...I hate it when I get that wrong, sorry.

Oh, I understand the physics behind the votes you recieved. We're kinda looking for ways to alter the Hot 20's, there's a LOT of emotion that come out of them. And, actually, the Bryce gallery, for being as big as it is, is usally quiet, lol...usually. Maybe we should create the "Random 20 of the past week", or something like that... I will say this; Any/all this crap aside, getting comments you REALLY don't like is harsh. I'm sorry if this situation has brought you down. AgentSmith

I'm not ranting at you Agent Smith. I'm just annoyed at the whole situation. I had recommended to my boss that we hold a contest for the box design for the card game here on Renderosity. Now I'm going to recommend that he not do that and just do it in house.

Oh, I know. That's too bad, but I understand. AS

"My image was INUNDATED with the most venomous and hateful comments I believe I have ever seen" I saw some of them, and they weren't very nice. Interesting to note that none of the people making the gallery comments are defending their views in this thread. Oh well. Guess it's easier to do it in the gallery where you can scribble grafitti and not get ebots telling you that someone took exception to your childish remarks, eh?

I would hazard a STRONG guess that the commenters haven't even seen this thread. Btw, We don't have a pot in here that needs stirred. Thanks for understanding. AgentSmith

It's unfortunate that there are people out there with nothing better to do than trash someone else's art...whenever I see a comment like that on a gallery image (even if it isn't mine) I visit the gallery of the one making the comment (if they have one and believe me more don't than do) to see what extraordinary work they produce, if there's no gallery and no artist page and no contributions of any kind, I'd dismiss the comment entirely, and think 'just one more juvenile asshole' spouting off...Take heart you made it to the Hot 20, something I've never been able to do (someday...)even if you deleted the image...:) Zhann

I'm just sorry I missed seeing the image. I would have loved to verbally disembowel a few potty-mouthed lack-wits on behalf of the seemingly much maligned lady in question. The works in your current gallery are excellent. (I find a quick rapier thrust typically turns the trick without any overt "stirring of the pot") ;)

Just out of curiosity...do you get an ebot message if you do have an image that makes the Hot 20?

Hi everybody and specially DarkSwan. I'm one of the people who commented expressing doubts about your image in the Hot20, although I don't think (no, correct that: I'm sure I don't) used offensive tones/words. I was expressing my doubt, because I did see a great difference between your image and the others which were on the Hot20, as there is a difference between mines and the Hot20 ones. I continue to think I didn't say anything particularly offensive, but I reserve the right (and the pleasure) to comment and criticize the images, as well as the duty (and pleasure) to receive comments and criticism on mine. I don't think R'osity is a "bunch of jealous people", here I found great support since the 1st day as a member, and never had anything negative or tricky goin' on.

I'm very sorry if I assumed you were self-voting the image and I was wrong, simply I couldn't find any other explanation for it to be on the 1st slot of the Hot20.

(For the one who said that nobody of the commenteers had the courage to speak in the thread, here I am. I live in Italy, and I was just sleeping :))

Stefano

No, no e-bot telling you you're in the hot 20.

And sadly, it seems that DarkSwan has deleted ALL of her images...her gallery is totally empty. If you read this, DarkSwan, please reconsider. The entire membership at Renderosity is HUGE. Get that many people together, there are bound to be a few asshles. I've had images trashed before, too, and my standard operating procedure is to delete the post and repost it. If the asshles come back, I delete it again and repost and don't allow comments or ratings. I'm the artist, I control the situation, and I say what goes in my gallery, no one else! (Well, as long as I abide by the TOS.) I regret that I am not sure if I had the pleasure of seeing one of your images. Judging by the comments of those who have, I have likely missed something I would have enjoyed very much. Tjohn

Sorry, TJohn, I'm not an ass**le :) BTW, AgentS, in the remote eventuality that one of my images get to the Hot20, there's a way to avoid it? :-) Stefano

Doublecrash: I have always found your comments on my images to be fair and constructive in suggestions for improvement. I am a slow typist, your new comments beat mine in posting, and didn't want you think you were one of the assh*les I was referring to. Tjohn

Arrgh...Too slow again. I repeat: Doublecrash is definitely not an assle! I don't think we get many of them in the Bryce Forum. Only one in recent memory (well, two, if you count me, but I'm a nice kind of assle...stupid but not mean.)

No sweat, TJohn, I was only joking :) I always try to be constructive with my comments, it's a way to "give back" all the advice, support and constructive criticism I constantly receive here in Renderosity. Now I'm going to watch a soccer game (Go Inter! for those who're interested in Italian madness about soccer), I'll read the replies this eve. Have all a nice sunday. Stefano

Doublecrash, While you weren't exactly nasty, you DID speculate rather loudly that I self voted. I'd like to know how you consider that "Advice, support and constructive criticism"? Tjohn, if you would like to see my images, a few of them are posted on my own website http://www.darkswan.net

Darkswan, I am sorry to hear of the injustice done to you on this site and hope you will reconsider the deletion of the images from your gallery. Like Zhann, if I see disturbing comments I check out the gallery of the person involved, and if there is nothing of value there then I dismiss them as blowhards. I just had a look through your web page and although not everything appeals to me I think it is a good looking site and your artwork, in particular, is pretty cool. Don't let the idiots get you down they're not worth the effort. Best wishes Catlin

Doublecrash; avoid what?

I don't know, nu-be, I think the whole idea of the existence of the Hot 20 relies on it being exactly a popularity contest. I think for those members who go there, you must remember that if you do not vote for your 20 favorite recent images when cruising through the galleries, you cannot be offended by what you see there. Kind of like exercising your political right to vote. If anyone wants to see the winners reflect the way the general population at Renderosity thinks, you need to vote. Most of the time when I check out the Hot 20, the number one spot went to an image that got 30 votes or less. 'Nuff said about that. DarkSwan: I checked out your work in your site gallery, and I am very impressed with your ability to pose Poser figures without making them look like posed mannequins. Too often, artists get the body posed alright, but the expressions on the faces look forced and unnatural. This is where you really excel, I can believe that two people in one of your renders are actual involved with each other. Well done. I also like the way that you have defined a recognizable "style". From work to work, Your color and lighting choices are recognizably coming from the same person. My stuff, by comparison, is all over the map. As I feared, we are worse off without your participation at Renderosity.

A.S.: Not that I feel qualified to answer a question directed toward someone else, but I took Doublecrash to mean how could he avoid being chosen for the Hot 20? (meant in a joking way.)

I took it that way too, just wanted to make sure. If that is the case, there is no option to turn off voting.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened. I think that comments should be giving advice on how to improve or tell that the viewer enjoyed watching the image. Negative comments without advice on how to improve are just nasty. And if you think an artist is voting for himself/herself and you can't keep quiet about it I think it's more appropriate to send an IM then to post that in the gallery. (Sorry Doublecrash.) Some discussions in the merchant forum have learnt me how carefull you have to be with commenting on personal habits, actions and ways of expressing of other artists. Some people really don't mind, but it's better to keep those things away from the public areas and use the IM's instead. I still think Doublecrash is not an asshole by the way. BTW: I understand that you don't get an e-mail when your image made it into the hot 20. Could I have been in the Hot20 without knowing it?

Yes, AgentS, tjohn has got it right, I was joking about a manner to avoid just that :)

To DarkSwan: oh my... I thought you were self-voting yourself (sorry if I repeat myself here), because I did not find any other possible explanation for that image to be in the 1st slot. And I thought a couple of times to let this pass, but at the end I thought the fact was somewhat spoiling the spirit of R'osity. I felt cheated, so I wrote that down. In the second part of the message (I'm sorry there is no more trace of it), I said that, in my opinion, the rocks in the foreground needed a thorough smoothing pass (or so I recall). The first one was a little anger goin' on, the second one was a criticism. I wrote "please stop voting yourself", I didn't insult you or used bad language to express my disappointment.

Ok, you didn't vote for yourself, you had a bunch of colleagues, friends and customers doing that. I also have lots of friends that, not knowing anything 'bout 3Dgraphics, think I'm up there along with Pixar's Chief Animator, but when I show them R'osity Bryce gallery, I point to them to the works -- only to name a few of my favourites -- of sbleci, Rochr, RedSpartan, Beton, hobbit, alvinylaya, kaes, PrizmBreak (what a coincidence! the people who're in the Hot20! Out of pure popularity? Gosh, I didn't even know how old are they and where they live, what popularity means?!??) and sure I wouldn't like if they, my friends, voted for me out of pure friendship/relationtship.

Fact is, the image was a normal image with many flails, like mines and most of other's new artists (or, like me, hobbyist) here. So, if you want, you can accept my excuses for having being wrong in the "self-voting" topic: I renew them, and I would be really glad if you accept 'em, but please don't accuse me of being vulgar, or disrespectful, or insulting in any manner.

Sorry for the looooong rambling.
Stefano

(BTW, my soccer team has won 3-0) :)

Rayraz, I think you're absolutely right. I really did something wrong, here, and it was to not report my doubts here in the forum or to the moderators instead of writing "stop self-voting" in the image comment. It would've been more correct for sure. "You've lost another precious occasion to be silent", would've said my late, wise grandma :) Stefano

Yeah, it's possible someone could be in the Hot 20 and not know it. Lol...I can take a wild guess at what request is going to be made next, I'll go ask. AS

Yeah an ebot would be nice, A.S. Not that I would expect to get a lot of them, LOL.

I put the question up to the big guys.

Well I'll put my 2 cents in and I have seen Darkswan's images. Though I think they are very good I don't think IMO that they were Hot 20 material. That's not to say they aren't good, they are, but I have this image of what a hot 20 should be and as Doublecrash listed the artists I put in this category I won't repeat it here. Now having said that we have no control over who votes for our images and if friends decide to do that then fine. It should just be let go. I mean it's not like this is a contest with prizes and all. If it's there then accept it. I'm not into abstract, etc and just because I don't think they have the same quality doesn't mean I should complain that they are in the hot 20. BTW I beleive it's impossible to vote for yourself unless you log in under different account names.

Doublecrash (Stephano) should be suspended from this board for this comment alone: "Ok, you didn't vote for yourself, you had a bunch of colleagues, friends and customers doing that." Suspension or booting is the only way to convince people that this site is not for childish comments. Either you have a "no tolerance" rule or you don't. There is no middle ground. He has once again shown his true nature, I need no further proof of who is wrong in this situation. He opened his mouth and removed all doubt.

MacSeour, since you have never posted in the Bryce forum before...let me help you understand that I'm the Moderator here. Doublecrash's statement is more of an opinion than anything else. He only re-states what DarkSwan has been saying, although the words are obviously different...it is not a personal attack. Suspension or "booting" is not the only way to do things, and certainly not what we reach for everytime. "Zero Tolerance" relates to certain acts, and certainly does not always equal a ban. If Doublecrash has shown his true nature before...please feel free to show me where. Otherwise, I will repeat my self, we don't have a pot in here that needs stirred. The forums are for discussions, with opinions or not, but for communication, not verbal shots of whom should be punished. AgentSmith

MacSenour not only hasn't never posted anything here, but doesn't have a gallery, nor a R'osity homepage (only a public wishlist). I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an alias, so maybe it's one of the "friends" and now is doing his dutiful duty.

To MacSenour: I didn't posted any direct offence, insults or vulgarity in my commentary to the questioned image (an act that, by now, has become one of my most regretted ones since I'm a member here, because after reading your posting I have the real feeling to have bounced upon a real "lobby").

What you took as an act deserving Rudolph Giuliani's "Zero Tolerance" was, as AgentS said, just re-stating the words of DarkSwan (to whom I've excused myself for the eventual mistake not once, but two or three times in this same thread). So, please, stop blabbing about banning.

I'm really getting tired of this question, so -- since I've excused myself three times -- I'll stop following this thread. And my excuses goes also to all the real members and to AgentS for having worsened the situation of this topic instead of ligthening it: that was the intention of my first post this morning, having been called directly in cause.

See ya in other threads. :)

Stefano

AgentSmith, A moderator moves the the discussion along the given topic and makes sure that comments that are offensive, or off topic, are removed and the people who made them notified why. You are no moderator, you merely answer questions. Proof of this to me is that you are speaking to me about my post, where I see nothing from you about his. I can give you two instances of his poor behavior, his comment in my last post, and his comment that he admitted too suggesting that darkswan self voted. There's your proof, now act. My suggestion is that you suspend him for 15 days. For his own good, the site's good and a notice to all that use this forum other than intended. If you do that, he'll stay on topic and keep his mean comments where they should be. Otherwise you're opening the gate to more and more such comments. I realize that in some circles suspension is a last resort. Obviously if you used it here more, darkswan would have nothing to complain about and this thread wouldn't exist. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but clearly had there been action taken when the mean comments were made in the first place, we'd all be enjoying darkswans work, with the voting being fair and the comments left only helpful. It's the lack of fear of some action on your part that gives people the "guts" to say the mean things in the first place. To sum it up, my problem isn't with him. It's with a site that lets him do this to someone else. If you truly want a site that is for artists, to help them grow and really push themselves, they need you to help them focus. Let them do that, by removing the stumbling blocks thrown down by those who have little interest in being helpful. This is my opinion...

Agent Smith, One of the comments on my image was(not from doublecrash, but a different one that decided to jump on the bandwagon once Doublecrash POSTED) "My nine year old does better images than that". I don't know what you consider a "personal attack" but that sure fits the criteria.

Agent Smith, I consider Doublecrash's implication that I am an "alias" or that I am just a friend commenting as a personal insult. I consider Doublecrash's implication that since I do not have any art displayed on this site, that my comments have less value, a personal insult. From the sound of it, it seems to me that DarkSwan thinks that implying that she self voted, or had friends vote for her image, a personal insult. I would like to know from you, as the "moderator", how many personal insults are allowed until action is taken? 10? 50? 100? It should be 1.

Moderator: One that moderates, as: One that arbitrates or mediates. One who presides over a meeting, forum, or debate. I do not merly answer questions, you yourself point this out in your first paragraph. Perhaps you should also read your own material, along with the whole of this thread. If you see nothing from me about this, you are definetely chiming in without reading first. See my posts # 4,5,7,8,10,12. Your proof is no proof at all. As I said, you are obviously NOT reading this entire thread and do not see where DarkSwan stated; "The test players get quite excited when I finish an image, and if I show it to them, they vote for it." Obviously this is the/her reason for the high number of votes. Nothing against the rules concerning that so, that's fine. Two instances of his poor behavior; As I said, read the entire thread, especially ALL of Doublecrashes, and ALL of his apologies. Thank you. I will not suspend anyone for 15 days. Suspension can be a first resort or a last, it all depends on the act and the severity of it. But that action will be done by a staff member for a real reason, not because someone is wanting me to. A LOT of action was taken. MY action, action you won't ever see or know about. The last thing I fear is taking action in my job...oh, believe me... No need to be melodramatic, you don't have a problem with this site. You have a problem with this situation. A situation in which DarkSwan has left, Doublecrash has apologized, repeteadly, and you...you want to stir it all up to your satisfaction. I strongly suggest that you should pick a real fight elsewhere. AgentSmith

DarkSwan, you're right, I agree. AS

Mac; What I consider is different. I have seen MANY members say that they were insulted because of this or that. I cannot punish other members for these personal feelings. Everyone would end up being banned. What DarkSwan stated in post #41 is an attack, in my opinion. 1 attack is all it takes, I have yet to hear any from you that do not stem from personal feelings. I'm sorry to have to be that way, yet like I said, If I went on feelings all the time...everyone would be banned, eventually. AS

Agent Smith, Thanks for your comments, I appreciate you taking the time.

Unfortunately, DarkSwan has deleted the pic in question, I'll have to go to the guys who run the site, see if I can get any info (comments) from it. AS

well refereed AS

Thanks for all the clarifications AS. Lin

http://www.darkswan.net nu-be: DarkSwan's work can be seen at the above site.