First I am NOT trying to start a flamewar. I just want to know why is there a product showcase if people are just going to keep posting in the regular poser forum anyhow? Not that I don't think the things posted here are great looking items, but if there is an intention of selling it, it doesn't belong here. Put it in the product showcase an post a link to it, I would assume that is allowed. And if someone out there is going to reply why don't I complain that artwork posted here should go in the gallery.. Your absolutely right, it should.

I don't think the error of posting what should be in the Product Marketplace forum is always intentional. If someone hasn't sold before, and want to show their work in progress for feedback, it's an honest mistake to make. New people are coming in all the time...not everyone knows the correct forum. And if someone has seen a product posted here before, they may think it is alright to post. The line is drawn very thinly as to what is appropriate and what is not. As for the artwork, some people post their art in the forums because they get better feedback here than they do in the galleries, where so much is posted that it is difficult to get useful comments. Or they have a question related to their graphic that is easier to see if the graphic is posted witht the message. Other people, you will find, never post in the galleries and always post on the forum. I would hate to lose the opportunity to see their graphics...and it is easy enough to skip past posts with graphics by noticing whether or not an image is included in the posting. I personally like to see art in the forums because I hate trudging through the galleries these days. There's just too much to go through, and too much that disinterests me. And I enjoy hearing how the artist came to produce their graphic and what it means to them and to other people. Graphics take on a new life in discussion. That's my take on it. The way to not start a flame war is to suggest rather than demand. But that's just a suggestion.

I TRY to keep my postings apart, but there are some which falls in a grey area. I post regular ads in Product Showcase, but I do sometimes post WIP's here, and also questions regarding how to do certain things with WIP's. Allthough there are more and more people in the Product Showcase, this is still the biggest forum, so there is more chance of getting an answer quickly in here. But it is sometimes hard, and I have to admit that I too have posted things here which should have been in the Product Showcase. I try to divide, but I sometimes fail. :o)

I'm not a vendor, but I'm thinking sometimes you don't know if you are going to sell something unless you get encouraging feedback. I personally don't have any problem with the WIP...it's kind of fun to see how things develop and not everyone visits the Product Marketplace.

That's very true Dialyn, but many people don't go to the product showplace because they have no way to afford to buy the products so find looking at them depressing or some similar emotion. One suggestion might be to put in the subject line that it is a "Possible commercial product" or something to that effect. Or maybe "wip for possible commercial product". That way if there are people who know that no matter how inexpensive or lovely it may be they can just bypass that thread and not feel badly. Some people may well feel mislead .. if they see a thread for someone asking for help with a product here in this forum it is natural to assume that the product will be free since technically only free products are supposed to be put here. These people may work very hard to help the person achieve the desired affect of the texture or character or morphs or model or whatever it is and then find out that it is going to be commercial. It is a great irony to discover that something you have put many of your own hours in freely trying to help becomes something that you cannot ever have. That's not intended as a flame toward anyone. i think something in the subject line would be of great benefit to all of the parties involved.

I think better subject lines would help all the way around. When they are as vague as this one, it is hard to know if the message thread is worth reading or not. I can see how people might feel mislead by helping with a project and then finding it is for sale. Your suggestions would make a great deal of sense. I think, however, the moderators have said no item for sale (WIP or finished) should be placed in the Poser Forum by the vendor (though I assume it is all right for a buyer to display an item as part of a graphic since this happens often without comment).

P.S. it is too bad if people don't go into the Product Forum even if they don't intend to buy. The creators of items are often the ones who create the best graphic for their wares. I've seen several "advertisements" that I thought were very good graphics in themselves. But then I watch commercials too because I find often find them more entertaining than the program. So there you go.

The truth is - for me? I never go to the product showplace. So - if someone points me to an issue or a request here - I'm happy for it.

The real reason? Because so many more people visit this forum than any other. That's why there are so many postings for commerical products (including Poser 5) and posts that have absolutely nothing to do with Poser, but have never been moved to the OT Forum. But, to keep a posting from being a commercial, a vendor has to get one of his friends to post a "look what I found" or "look at this neat product" message, with an image of the product, of course. Or, you could be a big company (read: sponsor of the site) and have one of your employees post images of the latest features of your program. (Poser 5 and probably DAZ Studio). If the program is for sale (Poser 5), then the images should go in the Product Showcase forum. But, if you're around here for any length of time, you'll see that this place goes through cycles. When the latest "item of the day" hits, everyone and their brother has to post an image or a message about it. Stephanie, the DAZ Gorilla, the House Mouse, and now the V2 to V3 Texture Converter. Are these all for-sale products? Yes. Are images posted in the Poser Forum (which should be discussions not an image gallery)? Yes. So, just try to ignore the commercials and move on.

Until you manage to weed out everyone who doesn't do their own modeling, textures, and program development, you can't eliminate the commercials from Renderosity. Frankly, the creators of the models and textures are some of the most talented graphic artists around and they have much to share. And I appreciate the time they take both to develop their products and to make it available to those of us who don't have their skill. I really admire those of you who can "do it all" but most of us can't. And the fact that the joy some of us get from a new "find" seems to irk those who can "do it all" is too bad...but as long as you have a mix of skills on the forums and in the galleries, those who are superior in talent will have to suffer the enthusiasms of the rest of us. It's just what happens when you have a community of mixed backgrounds, talents and abilities, and should come as a surprise to know one. But this thread now is wandering into the land of dead horses beaten to death so I will end my participation here. Happy Valentine's Day to all!

a couple of times i tried to give my opinions on products that haven't been released yet that had more than obvious errors or mistakes, but i've got smacked. since then i don't go there any more. it's become a back clapping forum that i don't want to be a part of.