You know? I was sitting here last night while the missus was at work, and thinking about where this whole Poser thing is going. While researching for games programming in and about Salt Lake City, I noticed that there is 10x the demand for animators and artists than there are for programmers. A contact at Microsoft's Games division (which is in SLC) had said "we only need one programmer, really. But we do need as many animators as you can send over!" Entropic had one point when he penned his long goodbye letter - the poser stuff, even at default, kicks the unholy dogshit out of the vast majority of stuff put together in the bigger programs, like Maya, 3DS, and Lightwave. While I do realize that far more can be accomplished by the more complex proggies (a LOT more in if it is in the right hands), Poser and its companions (Vue, Rhino, Amapi, Bryce, etc) do a real bang-up job when it comes to artowrk... and in the right hands, it really rocks. This does not mean any retraction at all of the things I've said about Poser 5... I meant every word of that, and it is to my sadness that CL bit off more than it could ever hope to chew w/ Poser 5. DAZ|Studio is coming along, and I am confident that it will someday (hopefully someday soon) pick up where Poser left off. No animosity is meant towards CL at all, but this is my opinion and I will stand by it. But in the meanwhile, what of this community? there's a whole lot of strife about, and there are factions that are splitting things even further still, as people divide into camps and battle lines form. I would like to take the step of helping to stop this mess. There is a lot of potential to be had here, enough to make even the big boys in their Maya, 3DS, and Lightwave enclaves to sit up and take respectful notice. Speaking of the high-end CG art folks, if we continually act like kids in a sandbox, we're going to be treated like kids in a sandbox by them. If we want respect so badly, it is time we earned it by being respectful towards each other. This indictment is not limited to a few people - it includes the staff here [at PoserPros], the staff at Renderosity, the staff at 3D Commune to some extent, and the staff at PFO. Hell, it even includes me. I've seen too many folks fall victim to cults of personality, to raising up individuals as heroes in some pointless debate over who takes care of the community the most or the best. It is time we grew beyond such petty and crass behavior. Small steps towards a strengthening of community are being made, even at Renderosity - but we as a group of human beings have to go beyond discouraging bad behavior by encouraging good behavior. I can only do so much on my small part, but as a gesture of building bridges and extending a hand of friendship, I have gone back on what I have said regarding any boycott of any Poser-related site, including Renderosity. I realize that there is a lot of bad blood from the past, and I further realize that there are still some bad motive. However, there are positive steps being made, and the more those are encouraged, the better off we all are. /P

Hear, hear! Thank you for reposting this to Rosity, Peng. As you note this is a time of transition in Poser-land, and in the booming CG realm at large. On the one hand the community is cutting some losses, but on the other we have such brilliant things to look forward to. I was especially encouraged to read your thoughts about the importance of mature and respectful behavior. It sounds like you've really thought things through and have reached a very positive epiphany about our potential as a huge community. I've had many similar thoughts in recent months, and hope that others will re-assess things in a positive light as you have. Kudos not only to your honorable gesture, but also to how well you've expressed yourself.

I remember stumling on this site, I am often times surprised by some of the threads but all in all I think this place rocks. I have had so much support from people I dont even know that it really gave me incentive to work all that much harder. But one thing I started noteing {as I am member to other gallery sites and have few other galleries} is a deep dark secret. I have found that some artists use poser...and do not note it. I am not talking about things like some of us do that we do post work. I mean they will use a model or whole scene and then "paint" over it or what ever and say that it is with out aid. What gets me is why? why not say "hey I used poser to start this piece"? what is so bad about poser that it is refered to as if it is a kiddy proggy? Why is it some artists have to use it in secret to be taken seriously? The artists I see in here that work with poser work just as hard if not harder then the "big boys" So why is it that it is not taken as seriously? Why is it poser people do not seem to get the same respect as other proggy users?

pinguisto you are missing something :

"the poser stuff, even at default, kicks the unholy dogshit out of the vast majority of stuff put together in the bigger programs, like Maya, 3DS, and Lightwave"

The DAZ characters were created in Lightwave ! Without the "bigger programs" your Poser workspace would be empty...

:) Eric

Yep - and I'm not dissing the bigger proggies per se - in the right hands they can produce wonders - like Vicky ferinstance. :) /P

This thread is being moved to OT forum people. Thanks. :-)>

We have a mod called "PunkClown"??? The question though, is if it's to be moved, why to OT? It's of direct relevence to "the community" and as such is not "Off Topic" Community Ideas perhaps, but not OT surely? Or is it policy to move everything to OT regardless? :) Nice speech Peng. later jb

Yep, there is a mod named PunkClown, go figure!...good to meet you praxis22. I don't know, OT seemed ok to move this thread to at the time...in retrospect perhaps it should have been moved to Poser as it seems mainly about poser...Ummmm...community ideas? What new ideas are being raised here?...although I applaud Penguinisto's sentiments in him not boycotting any "Poser-related" site and his encouraging mutual respect and nice behaviour to each other (which should be encouraged everywhere) - however I could not see any new ideas raised for the community. As you pointed out in your last sentence this seemed to me more of a speech than anything else... :-)>

I didn't realise it had to be new idea... Don't visit that one much ;) I just thought it was a "think piece" with relavance to "the community" I was more wondering why it was deemed "off topic" than anything else. later jb

Ummmm...Perhaps we need a forum specifically for members' speeches? lol ;-)>

we've got one already, it's called the poser forum :) At least that's the way it reads at the moment, Geep is probably the only one on topic :)