At the risk of starting a heated discussion (which I truly hope to avoid), I would like to ask a question about the recent copied images protesting war in the gallery.

As of this writing, 8 copies of the same image appear. The image is a comment about peace with an invitation on the graphic for others in agreement to post another copy of the same image back to the gallery.

My question does not arise out of a particular political viewpoint about the current situation in the world, but rather out of a concern for keeping our gallery true to it's purpose.

I find no comment that would apply to these images in the TOS, however it is my understanding that the galleries are for posting original Poser images for display, comment, critique, and teaching. If we elect to flood the gallery with many identical copies of the same image, I fear that we lose this purpose completely. If we fill it with such copies, I also fear that paging through these images to find other intersting work will become frustrating and decrease as well.

I am also concerned about allowing the gallery to be used as an oppinion forum in quite this way. Certainly it's fine (and actually very good) to create an image that grows out of one's own ideals and emotions about such issues. But having a group of people simply copy one image over and over to express an opposition seems very different. In a similar way, would a group of people who disliked P5 or CL be allowed to create an oppositional image and copy it multiple times in the galleries?

Please understand that I do not mean to attack or criticize those who have participated in this posting so far. I simply wish to ask about the appropriateness of this use of the gallery and hopefully have some healthy, calm discussion about the use of the gallery.

There are three subjects there are no calm discussions possible. Politics, religion, and you know the third one. Good luck. I'm taking bets on how long it stays civilized....cynic that I am, I still wish with all my heart it would.

Although I have already been "reprimanded" via email by one of those "artists" participating regarding my comments that I left on one image, I concur. Instead of having potentially hundreds of versions of the same image, why doesn't everyone just pick one of the images and post their comments on that. That way, everyone pro or anti war, can go to the single image and post/read comments there. Otherwise, hundreds of copies of the single image will only chew up bandwidth and add nothing new to the conversation. - Ray

One copy is enough, you can downloaded, add your name and email it to friends, or post it on your Own web site. To me, this is like ... home loan, credit repair, viagra, lose weight, ect,ect... SPAM... or better yet a computor virus spreading. If its ok with Moderators it will stay.

or for that matter post 1 copy, vote it into the hot 20, & see how long you can keep it there :-)

.

Actually, the TOS provides that: "Members/Users will not use this community for; Any practices that affect the normal operations of the community..." Moreover, the terms of the Gallery state that: "The Gallery provides members a place to post their original Computer Generated art." (Emphasis mine) Spam-posting the work of others in the Gallery is contrary to the terms of the Gallery and affects the normal operations of the community by needlessly increasing the bandwidth demands on R'osity's servers (imposing a cost on the owners) and by making it more difficult to navigate to original images in the Gallery. Furthermore, some members and users may choose to bail on the Gallery for a while, rather than wade through multiple postings...which hurts all artists posting to the Gallery. In addition, if the issue is not resolved, it would seem to be an open invitation for others to do the same, thereby multiplying these problems. Given the alternatives posted above, it would be my hope that the admins would contact those involved to resolve this issue informally.

From a strictly artistic rendering point of view, it is an extremely blurry and dark picture and I could hardly read the words.

NUKE THE FRENCH!

NUKE THE GERMANS!

NUKE THE WHALES!

FRENCH THE FRIES!

Did you enjoy that spam I just did? cuz that is exactly what you are doing if you repost that image in the Gallery.

LOL! Niles You ruined my political statement. :)

As those who've read my Gallery comments know, I'm very sympathetic to the anti-war cause, and not slow to express it here on Renderosity. HOWEVER, there are better and worse ways to do that. My somewhat long-preachy responses to a few images may be pushing the edge, but they're technically well within the ToS. :) Original art, political cartoons, etc. are all great ways to do this. But I think that this repeated-image technique will actually not get the point across well. The signatures are not accumulating, but are spread out among a dozen images. Thus, you don't show widespread support. The image's re-posting ad nauseum will irritate some people - and some will carry that irritation over toward the cause so espoused. If everyone who supports that cause posts their own original anti-war picture, THAT will be a powerful movement, all right. I'd recommend that in the strongest possible terms - after all, this site is for people to express themselves through art, right? If you want to do petitions, go to moveon.org or True Majority (US) or one of the worldwide anti-war petitions. April Follies

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=345061

I am currently against the war. That being said, when the war begins, I will be hoping and praying that as many of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines return home safely as possible. If that means we have to "win" the war, so be it. Protest the war, but support the warriors. There, but for the grace of God (and an expired contract as i have already served) go we.

"I is immoral, it is inhuman, it is French" Mark Twain Scarab

My feelings is everyone is scared, and frustrated right now. America is not the same, and we have a scarey man at the helm. Its kind of hard even here to escape those fears and those feelings at times. People need to vent I understand, and express their feelings. I think getting back to the orginal question is, is this the place to do that? Personally, I come here to renderosity weary, and its safe wondrous place to be. The last thing I want to think about here, is what is happening. Here i come here to learn, to get inspired. I'm more of a romantic, and i can focus on the higher ideals, be inspired,it gets my imagination going. SO, I personally see trouble in bringing politics here, none of us are going to agree, so we start fighting, get away from our original focus for being here that environment would be disruptive to the energy of the site. To those artists that need a forum, to post your frustrations, there are many organizations that are deveoping websites, and print media. Heres some places to see if you can submit your work: Meriaheller.com., Radioleft.com, Indymedia.org, Prisonplanet.com, and Infowars.com. These are just a few places to check out.These sites I listed, are large, so it would be a great way to display your work as well.

Just my 0.2 Euros... If you check out the facts (easy, actually, use the www), you'll find it very hard to take a stand on this - both the gallery problem, and the real-world conflict. The iraqi regime is definitely dangerous, both to its neighbours and its own population. So's the west - especially since Saddam's weaponry was sold to him by the West, with government authorization (US, british, french). Both Chirac and Rumsfeld (and many other western VIPs) are on TV news footage being very friendly with Saddam! While Saddam may actually be LESS dangerous now than when he had willing western suppliers, the North Korean regime is potentially even more dangerous (both to neighbours and own population), but they already have the weaponry that Saddam is not allowed AND they are not sitting on top the world's second largest oil reserves, so it's war for the iraqi, and diplomacy for the North Koreans. You may ask yourself (as I did), why don't the media report these facts? They do - if you have enough channels (TV and www). But the mainstream media are doing their patriotic duty now, keeping the population that's going to pay and bleed thinking the right things. Gallery postings such as the one we're discussing are fine examples of humanistic concern, but they are, IMHO, naive and easily dismissed. On balance, my stand would be that I basically agree that a UN that's respected and obeyed should be the basis of world policy. But since the US is never paying its part of the UN funding, AND since the US has supported Israel in ignoring countless UN resolutions for the last 50 years, I'd suggest supporting those honorable politicians, US and otherwise, who actually acknowledge the above facts, and support the UN, rather than the present "big-stick" US regime. While I think it's fine that the Forums (perhaps more fittingly the OT one) be used for exchanging viewpoints, the gallery, IMHO, is no place for a political campaign, pro- or anti-war (we see images supporting both). Cholole's fine image is, IMHO, what the gallery CAN be used for, a subtle yet strong reminder that there's real people out there who are going to pay the price if we don't all do a little independent thinking.

I don't agree posting the same picture many times. Is much better to create many and different pictures, perhaps then we will have a new gallery : POSER-ANTIWAR ...... NUKE THE ALIENS (the green ones)

war isn't healthy for other living things in general

Just to get one thing straight: Are you guys against the war in fear of American lives or Iraqy people?

23: Does it really matter? Note, I am not trying to be sarcastic or rude. Each person must make their own mind/decision regarding this, and their right to hold their beliefs is theirs alone. Just remember whatever the case, the average American and all the Iraqis have absolutely no say in this whatsoever. Both sets of governments have already made their decisions, and we are all stuck in between awaiting the outcome. Both sets of governments have also already made their decisions, regardless of the opinions of all others. As one who has voted against the mass postings (and, for the record, more pro-war than anti-war), I still feel individual protest works are a fantastic idea, and I look forward to viewing them (well, maybe most of them). (also posting to end the ceaseless response emails to my mailbox)

Yes, I know it was in the Poser gallery, but it's not on topic for the Poser forum Kevin. Poser Forum Moderator.

I always come to this forum/site for poser help not political debate. I suck at poser and try to gather as many tips as possible in the hopes that one day I can actually post in the galleries. When bandwidth is wasted with people's war/anti-war rantings it becomes very bothersome. You have your opinion....great that is america.....don't spam this place with your war/antiwar pictures....keep your opinions to yourself. If you need to make sure your "voice" is heard go elsewhere to one of the popular news/political websites. Or better yet start a protest for or against in your hometown. I have more concerns...'SAVE FARSCAPE"...somehow someone will link it's demise to the current president and his administration. "for war, no war , big brother, bombs away, UN, human shields." SORRY that was my off topic rant:) hibernating bear99

Shademaster - just to get three things straight : The greatest threat to global and US security at the moment is the present US administration. The double standards in US dealings with Iraq/North Korea teaches us that the bigger your guns, the more polite treatment you'll get. The US attitude towards the UN teaches us that if your guns are big enough, you're above any rules. The lesson will not be lost on the world's leaders, I'm afraid. When I have to choose sides, I'll choose the US over Iraq and N.K. any time - not because I agree with US policy, but because on the US side you can disagree with, and hope to change, policy. The same holds true for our very own gallery problem : we CAN post both pro- and anti-war images, instead of being restricted to images praising the virtues of Saddam or Kim. I just happen to dislike seeing something that's supposed to be an art gallery (in the loosest possible sense) being converted to a soapbox - whether you want to support the hawks or the doves, we westerners are fortunate enough to live in democracies, so the place to show our support is when we vote (or run for office), not when we create.

You are perfectly right thip. The reason for my first posting was that I hear a lot of people talking about the US people and not the suffering the Iraqy people undergo. Sometimes I just think an American person is worth more than an Arabian person. Just look at the war between Iraq and Iran 11 years ago. America didn't do squat, nor was it much in the media, America even supplied the weapons to Saddam for killing the people of Iran. More than 10 million people died under the rule of Saddam but only now that Saddam is posing to be a threat to America, action is undertaken. Anyhow, I'll see what happens and hope not too many people will be killed (nor America, nor Iraqy, nor of any other nationality), if there is going to be a war, so be it. As long as Iraqy people get Democracy and Justice in their country. Unfortunatly there is nothing much whe can do about it.

Whilst we can see the purpose behind it, this practice goes against the purpose of the galleries which is as a place to disply your artwork. If you wish to use an image as a protest medium, by all means invite folks to leave a supportive comment but please do not employ the 'sign it and repost' method. The current entries will be left as they are, but any more will be removed. Thanks, Kevin, Moderator.

Kbennett How about if each person alters the origional work, with Masons approval of course, and then reposts it. Is that allowed?

How about give'em an inch, and they will take a mile, some damn people , a "free service" to post your art and they just have to take advantage of it for their own use.

Sorry boulder, but no. We don't want the gallery flooded with images all created from one seed, whether it be done by signing it or by changing it a little. Please use the comment facility on an image to express support for the sentiment in the image. Kevin.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1126079

Thank you,
The Poser Forum Moderators

Upon further evaluation of this matter, we have had to come to the conclusion that all "duplicate-Gallery-Images" will be deleted. The Original Image will be left. We are however, saving all the images that have been posted and sending them to Morgan via her email, so that she may add the signatures to her Original Image. Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

Gotta say one thing about North Korea..they are allied with the Chinese, who have hundreds of nukes on ICBM's that can reach anwyhere in the US (They're going to put a 'taikonaut' into space this year, 3rd nation to do it independantly), and they have 3 million soldiers. They like our money, but hate us. That is why we don't attack North Korea. If only the Iraquis had been smart enough to make the same deal with Russia..they'd be halfway to Yemen by now..;)
I've seen the thumbnails, it's as easy to ignore dozens as it is to ignore 1..I think if you're an artist and protest something, make some art, a la 'Guernica', or something like that. Use your strengths..

"We don't want the gallery flooded with images all created from one seed," LOL. Have you seen the Poser gallery?

Arriving late to this issue, but just wanted to say I support the staff's decision. Jeez, we are artists! We are the ones who should be creating images according to our own impulses and convictions, not lazily copying and redistributing images created by others! Definitely an abuse of the galleries, no matter where one stands on the sentiment. Frankly, I'm amazed, especially considering how hot and bothered we get over issues of cloning and unoriginality. Funny comment boulder, but as you know what you're making fun of isn't the same thing. I wonder, though, is Naked Vicky in a Temple a pro-war theme? (Kidding...)

If you don't have it in you to do something original to express your feelings, why bother?

One more thing to consider. Many peop-le seem to believe that War and violence never solves anything but history proves otherwise time and again. Whether or not it is 100% necissary or even wise for the US to prosecute a war against Iraq right now the fact is that the Iraqi people will be a lot better off after the war is over. Yeah there will be an occupation. (Just as there was in Germany and Japan) But in the end (Taking the huge risk of assuming the morons in this administration can do anything right) The Iraqi people will have their freedom and a chance to have a bright future I remember all the (For want of a better term, dirty hippy whiners :)) Saying how bad it was for the US to pick on poor little afghanistan... Yeah How dare we free those people from a cruel iron fisted bunch of religious nuts? That was awful mean of us wasn't it? Sure they are still poor as dirt and things aren't terribly stable. But now they can at least live their lives and enjoy some very basic pleasures that they were prevented from doing before. One more thing the iraqui's will be able to do when this is all over... Protest without fear of being killed.

I PROTEST AGAINST NO EDIT FUNCTION IN THESE FORUMS! God My typing is bad.

I would like to personally and publicly thank the mods for handling this issue quickly and in a way that seems fair to everyone in the community. After all, (afaik) the mods are volunteers and the underlying issue is a touchy one in the first instance. And I also agree that once the thread turned toward the issue of the war itself, it was entirely appropriate to move it to the OT forum. I don't know whether the mods for the Poser forum also monitor OT, but I applaud them and hope that they get to read this.

dirty hippy whiners? Excuse me. I was an original Haight Ashbury hippy. There are no others. If you weren't there in san francisco, new york, austin, etc. in the 60s, you ain't a hippy. I get really tired of people describing anyone they don't like as hippys. We are the originals. accept no cheap imitations.

LMAO@Bone

Peace maaaann have a joint and chill out or something. NUKE THE HIPPIES! ^_^