Attached Link: http://www.reflex3d.com/Products.html

The insanely priced Poser like programme Reflex Drama is finally out, the good news is that there is a free version planed for an April release. Click on the link to check it out.

The 11.990 price is actually a bargain, it used to be 25.000 then it dropped to 17.000 and now its just 12.000! Ill think Ill buy two!!

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This link leads to what I think is the Daz Studio render engine:

http://www.3delight.com/

But thats probably old news.

Heres the mother company site:

http://www.dnasoft.com/index2.html

The flesh 2 app looks good, and might be useful with Daz Studio.

Staale

$11,990.00...you gottan be kidding me...no you aren't. I went to the link and there is that price. Are they insane?

Many thanks for that link. The free DNA viewer app, which apparently isn't released yet, should serve my anatomical purposes tremendously!

The 3Delight renderer can be downloaded, i'm doing it now, have anybody tested it? It works with poser rib files.

i think some have used it in the rhino forum. you might want to ask about it there....those guys are always looking for renderers 'cause rhino's native renderer is one of the worst.

Staale whats a poser " RIB " file ?

I saw this about a year or more ago. Please note the following observations: Not one image with it's eyes open. A smile will tell me more about the model than any grimace can, in terms of the model (it's much harder to do a really good open smile). Their models look no better than what we get with Poser and good ERC. The last review of this took place in 2001. The site does not portray any expansion since the last time I looked at it and if you read their FAQ (item #13), you will see the following note about Poser: "Poser is a database of human empty shells. It will never be used in production because the same models are made available to everyone with $200 and they cannot be customized without remodeling. This isn't a good proposition for content-creators seeking to differentiate themselves from the competition." There may be other reasons for a company not to use a program, but not understanding that morphing capabilities can diversify your model is simply dismissive. Cris

Well, call me when it drops from $11,990.00 to $119.00.

Staale - 3Delight all by itself is only the rendering engine and just enough framework to test it via the command line... so unless you're handy at jockeying a DOS prompt or building a UI for it, you won't get much out of the engine just by itself. (DAZ|Studio is integrating the render engine, and will have a rather decent interface built for it, so no worries in that department.) /P

RIB is and renderman file format for 3D objects / Worlds, should be in the export menu. The reflex site has been updated about once a year, but finally they got their prog out, but they have removed the gallery, probably because of the less than good hair shown in there.

Staale, I tried it. The render will recognize the RIB file exported via Poser, but the file contains no light data, so it has to be created from scratch. I have not tried to create any light s for it.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1138198

Penguinisto- Isn't 3Delight an API for the REYES render engine? This came up recently at the above link. Best; Dan

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=350892&Start=1&Sectionid=0&filter_genre_id=0&Form.Se

I don't usually do the Internet flaming thing, but I couldn't resist to this company, sent them this e-mail via their online form. I invite others to send in examples of their 'empty shells' to further illustrate their point. Best wishes Jody --- HI there I couldn't help but notice in your FAQ that you refer to Poser people as 'empty shells'. Hmm, well take a look at this: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=350892&Start=1&Sectionid=0&filter_genre_id=0&Form.Search=jarm&Form.Criteria=Author I am an average poser user and I think this 'shell' is looking a damn sight better than anything I have seen on your site. Not wanting to sound like an arse, but don't diss a $200 program that can produce this when I can't even find any images on what your program can do and yours is over $10,000 (which is a joke for software, doesn't matter what it does). best of luck, I'll keep my empty shells. Jody ---

"With Reflex|DRAMA, you get dozens of ready-made "building-blocks" for you to mix and match at your heart's content. Got a shape that you really like? Save your own building blocks and reuse them whenever and wherever you want. Now that's flexibility!" Hmmm...Funny I thought that was poser4 :-/

those models look like crap compaired to poser models, and if that choose nose one or 2 or 3 is teh extent of the morphability, I think that I will stay with poser please LOL

Well, they always say Poser is not a "professional" program. This one is a professional program. That means: not for purchase by an individual, instead your employer buys it for you to use in your professional capacity.

That model is HORRIBLE! They are touting their knowledge of human anatomy yet the model demonstrates otherwise. In one image the right biceps actually has a huge concave unnaturally rounded area! That model is really pretty grotesque! LOL

I got a reply from them.... A nice corporate response. --- Dear Jody, Thanks for taking the time to point out these things to us. Reflex|DRAMA was made for a very different market than those of Poser. I happen to like Poser and will review the site to make sure we are not "disusin" them. It happens that many companies (mostly in games) need a way to crank out a lot of models according to a certain topology. They want a programmable tool that they can control at every level. Reflex|DRAMA was made for these people in mind. As for the look, I think that it will take us a few months before our automatic generation method can match what is being produced by artists. Poser's models are created by some of the top human modelers in the world using Alias. As a policy, we refuse to generate some flashy renders and animations that were not made 100% with our modeling tool. As for the price, again it is a programmable tool so the price is comparable to other programmable procedural tools. You will soon be able to enjoy a freeware program that will allow you to see the real power of this approach. Only time will tell which approach will be widely used by game and film professionals. Have a nice day. The Reflex Team ---

You'd think an "upmarket professional" comapny would get rid of the typos on their website, wouldn't you? :)

bit of back pedaling there eh?LOL Their model still sucks the big one compaired to poser models.

Unlike me, who can't type worth a damn. :D

"Poser is a database of human empty shells. It will never be used in production because the same models are made available to everyone with $200 and they cannot be customized without remodeling. This isn't a good proposition for content-creators seeking to differentiate themselves from the competition" Ummm...and this program is any different? It's a databse of shells as well. Sorry, but 11 G's is too much even for the pro market. This is a really cool idea - and Creature Creator is basically the same thing, but for monsters. And you can do basic humans. If the folks putting down Poser start using and applauding this app, then they're hypocrites - they're putting us down cuz we're not modeling our people from scratch, and if they use this app, they're not modeling THEIR people from scratch. Sure, Reflex is more advanced than Poser, but ultimately it's an assistant to folks who can't model. Hilarious...

SamTherapy, looks like your typos are catching... (grin)

Hehe. Thing is, I'm not a spelling nazi but it really gets my goat when some so called "pro" outfit throws together a website and can't be bothered to spell check their text. If this is their public face, what the hell errors are lurking where we can't see?

marker.

Somehow, Poser 5 doesn't seem quite so bad a deal afterall--even at the initial pre-release price.

Oh wow.... with that many speling misstaks (sic) on one page, you know right away that this is a tiny two man operation - or they are just useless. If 2 paragraphs (I read that far before backing out) can contain 4 simple spelling mistakes and one grammatical, then they have no clue. Rule #1 when trying to reach your customers: make sure your presentation is impeccable. (I mean for goodness' sake, I proof read my own posts here before posting! You'd expect them to have a second/third person proof read basic texts for their site) Rule #2: If anything is not perfect, then when the mistake is pointed out, fix it instantly. Rule #3: Give them decent value for money when they ask about the price. Don't make them laugh. I wonder if they've had any interest in the app - sold anything at all. Hard to imagine they would. $12K - what a joke! :] Fish

From a technical point of view Drama is superior to Poser when it comes to modelling the human body. Poser uses a vertex mesh that you can morph while Drama uses bone, muscle, fat and skin to build the model from the inside. When a model in Drama is posed the body parts involved are shaped by the movement of bones, muscles and fat inside the part.

Drama does things the right way, but how well it does it remains to be seen.

The price is clearly aimed at game, tv and movie companies that have no problem with such amounts if the prog delivers.

The displacement map shown in some of the images on the 3Delight and DNASoft sites is probably the final nail in the coffin of my potential P5 upgrade. Sins Daz Studio have good disp. mapping I have no need for P5.

Why dont P5 owners use disp. mapping? I havent seen a single image with a good skin displacement yet, dont you P5 owners know what disps are capable of? Morphs shapes the model, displacement adds the detail.

I wonder if they had enough of a sales increase dropping from $25k to $12k to even make an estimate of the price elasticity of demand. Clearly their executives are ignorant of the fact that profits depend entirely on that and unit cost. The fact that you spent a gazillion dollars developing the product is irrelevant. You ain't gettin' any of it back if you don't sell any! I went through this with an associate who was marketing a Pascal compiler I had some input on back in the days of CP/M and Z80 computers. He insisted that $350 was the right price. Some guy named Phil came along with an upstart company called Borland and offered one nearly as good for $50. It's interesting. Practically the only software company that actually seems to pay attention to these marketing factors is Microsoft! You'd think by now some others would get the general idea. I use displacement maps all the time. Much more realistic than bump mapping (though both have their places). I've been using the Brycetech bump maps with some success and use the built-in fractal noise for home-brew skins. Another thing is that textures can now be layered and combined using color math. It's easy as pie to stick a tatoo on a model (or any other kind of mark, such as dirt smears, blood, etc.).

I just want to know why none of the models on the Drama site have their eyes open... Staale - It's the engine, a set of APIs (naturally), and a rudimentary UI, but nothing much more than that. Sorry about the confusion. /P