Schlabber's question about the poses made me decide to post the original version of "Ultimate Sadness" to get opinions. The tos says "no depictions of rape or torture of any living or dead creatures"...this picture I would consider controversial to say the least, so that's why I edited before posting it before. What do you guys think?

And yes, before you ask, I was in a strange mind-set when I made it.

She's sad because she forgot to take her bra off and now it's all wet? Don't mean to be flippant, but how would this voilate TOS?

It's a suicide picture...

It's impossible to tell from this part of the picture if it's against the TOS or not. The best thing to do is to e-mail one of the admins or mods and ask them to look at the picture. Worst case scenario, the image goes up for a vote if it's borderline. Cheers!

Hmm...I think that when in doubt I probably will just save pictures like this for my website, or else post edited versions and say the original is on another site.

I think you would have to read a lot into the picture to consider this a TOS violation. Without knowing that it's a suicide image, there's just nothing there to tell the viewer. It's just an image of a woman in a shower.

I thought it was just a woman in a shower too. But look closer at the wall and you can see the blood running down where she slit her wrists...

i've had days like that

hmm..afraid it had to be explained to me..if it was bright red, it might be different.

I feel that this is a powerful image. This image, I'm sure, goes against the TOS, which exposes a basic flaw of the TOS and art work.

Very evocative image. I didn't notice the blood and thus didn't think suicide. My initial impression was that she was crying because she had been battered by her husband/boyfriend so go figure. In any case, I don't think suicide qualifies as torture by my definition. I also think it's simply ridiculous to talk about torturing a corpse - desecrating yes, torturing no. It would be unfortunate if this image didn't pass muster but I'm sure that some equally valuable ones have gotten the axe as well.

slicing along the forearms is more effective than across the wrists but warm water increases flow or so i've heard

As far as I can tell, it passes the TOS without a problem. She's not being tortured. The TOS can be tricky. We sometimes have to let in a 5 minute whack job that is barely within the rules while a painstakingly rendered, but explicitly sexual picture has to be turned away. (And we turn away a lot of 5 minute whack jobs that are very explicit.) If we don't go by the defined rules, then we're accused of playing favorites. On the other hand, if we adhere exactly to the letter of the TOS, then we're rules mongering, censoring prudes who'd destroy most of the world's works of art. :- No system is perfect. We need to draw the line somewhere, and we tried to be fairly liberal while remaining a PG-13 to R rated site. There's plenty of sites out there for explicit images. We're not saying that those images are necessarily wrong, just that it doesn't fit what the owners envision for the site. (If you want an example of an explicit image that is always wrong, it's kid porn. Unfortunately, we've had a few try to sneak some in.) On borderline images that go up for vote, I try to look at the idea behind the image. Does it show pain and courage, or does it glorify the pain - trying to titilate the viewer with misery/gore? Does it suggest sexuality and enjoyment, or does it go for lust and power? I think most of the mods look at images in a similar fashion. Hope this helps! Crescent Rendie Mod.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=368627&Start=1&Sectionid=0&filter_genre_id=0&Form.Se

Hmm how interesting the TOS can be, take a look at this picture (link attached), it's one of mine. This has been up for almost a month and nobody has uttered a word about the TOS to me, yet this image clearly depicts violence etc. The image posted in this thread is, tame, yet emotional, in it's depiction of violence/torture/suicide etc but of course, it is that much more lifelike as it isn't a semi-robot. I say post it. best wishes Jody

Art is art - and art must be controversal. There are limits that shouldn't be crossed (child-porn for example) but if an image is not 'saying' anything it is only an image and not art. Nothing more need to say to Crescent's comment. For me this is a picture with a lot of feelings - if you want to make it more 'suicidal' there have to be blood dripping from the walls - but well, then it may violate the TOS ;o)

Oh - as I re-read it ... let me correct something: Nothing more need to say to Crescent's comment - this explanation is perfect :o)

I don't think this breaks TOS either ... although this does fall into the 'Artist might need therapy' section grin Seriously, any time you are not sure if an image is ok to post here, IM a moderator ...we're here to be helpful...really. Lyrra

Jarm, your work does, I think, what Syberia is supposed to do-- push the idea of what humanity is through the idea of suffering. It also depicts a kind of despair perfectly. None of this is glorified torture. Art gives us a way -- actually many ways-- to look at pain and fear and suffering when we really don't want to. It allows us to see the unseeable and is very healing in that way. Emily