ya, umm isn't that illegal? http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/agfa/phenix-american/ right there, phenixamerican costs money. I don't care what anyone says about the fact that you aren't offering the actual font file itself, just a tracing of the font letters needed. That's like saying, "Oh, well, it's okay if I download one of Syyd's renders, so long as I resave the file as a psd and only use 20% of the psd in my future artwork..." the phenixamerican font is owned by AGFA-Monotype, originally created by Compugraphic. I'm sure they would be pretty sore if they found out a major graphics website that catered to over 100,000 users was offering away part of their font for free use in a contest where monetary prizes are offered...

Gotta point...:)

o my o my sed the fly

Hi Fictitious,

We are not giving away any part of a commercial font. We only provide the Renderosity orginal title/logo in a graphic vector format. You won't be able to use it for anything else than creating the new Renderosity graphic set.

I did this title in Adobe Illustrator and I'm a legal owner of the "Phenix American" and "Phoenix" fonts. I could have used any other free or commercial fonts for this purpose. That's perfectly legal.

:) Eric

umm, it doesn't matter if you own the font. I don't. The font is said on the page itself to be Phenixamerican. Phenixamerican is a copyrighted font. You offer a vector traced version of this font. An .ai file can be converted into a font set, even if it only contains a few characters of that's needed. This would be a duplicate of the Phenixamerican font. What if I took something you made. Say I took the upper right corner of an image, exactly 25% of the image. What if I were then to resave it as a tif file. Then I'll put it into Adobe streamline and convert it to a vector traced file, and save it as .ai format. Would you then mind if I just gave it away? What if it was from a piece of art you were charging money for? Point being, you may be the legal owner, but I'm not. That's like me saying, well, I own Adobe Photoshop, so while I won't give you the whole program, I will give you all the sample files and filter sets included so you can use them with say GIMP or Paint Shop Pro... giving away a small part is still giving away a small part of something that is owned and distributed by someone else, in this case, a very large company called AGFA under it's subdivision AGFA-Monotype.

it a font, that's what it's for. fonts are used to create logos all the time. the logo is what they've made available here, not the font. i work at a print shop, i make logos for people i use fonts in alot of them. at some point down the road many companies get us to email their logo to other companies. that's the way it works, that's what fonts are for.

maybe so, but when fonts cost money, you can't give them away. It's illegal. Its property owned by some other entity. That'd be like loaning everyone on rosity Studio Max. In regards to printshops, a blind eye is usually turned because the print shops are providing the service for the client. Now, if that print shop were to keep the font the client gave them in order to print their work, and use it for something of their own, that'd be breaking major laws... you don't have the rights to use the font. It's much like Stock Photography and Illustrations. If I buy a stock illustration, giving it to you would be well into the realm of illegality if you were to use it. Fonts wouldn't be sold if they could be given away without any legal repercussions, why do you think Adobe's Font Folio collection costs so much... hell, Linotype sells collections costing upwards of 4000$US. companies may be trading fonts. they may also be trading other things. It doesn't make it legit. Considering renderosity's policy on stolen artwork, pirated software, and copyright laws, this whole thing is mildly surprising.

we don't give away the font we give away the logo and only to the owner (who we created it for) and those who the owner requires to have it.

well, we'll have ta wait and see what AGFA themselves think about it all i guess.

What's the purpose of all this?, are you a legal representant of Agfa, have stocks of them or what?

The purpose is that someone is getting ripped. In this case, AGFA. If it was curious labs, there'd have already been a lynch mob come and gone.

ok maybe i have no say and no place here to say but come on this is silly hun really i could maybe see it as not if it was like the whole abc's but really all it is is the world renderosity ok maybe im just lost but what are ppl going to do with thos letters? fill me in a bit plez lost in the letters bobbie

The Renderosity logo template that members can download is just that - A Template. It is no different than the template that is used for the Magazine Contest. In the case of the Rosity Logo Content - the text has been turned into an Image. Thus, it is no longer a TEXT. It is a logo, owned by Renderosity and given out as a template for members to use Only for the Renderosity logo contest. I hope this helps. ladynimue

yes ty very much ladynimue xoxobobbie

actualy it's not even the word RENDEROITY the Y is a different font all together.

Attached Link: MyFonts.com

I'm working as typographic consultant for MyFonts.com, an online font distributor (http://www.myfonts.com/ ). Helen Duggan asked us for opinion in the matter you are discussing. MyFonts.com doesn't currently offer fonts from Agfa Monotype, so we are in no position to give any official statement on that matter. If you are looking for an official opinion, please contact Agfa Monotype at http://www.fonts.com/

However, from my own practice so far, I can say that offering a digital version of a logo that uses several characters set in a typeface is by no means illegal. This is actual not only fair use of the typeface, but even its intended use.

The historical name -- a font of type -- means the complete character set of a given typeface. It is illegal to duplicate and distribute fonts, that is, the digital files that contain the complete character set and allow you to set arbitrary text in that typeface. A pre-rendered text that only uses some characters does not give the user the ability to typeset other texts.

If we followed the logic that prohibits distributing such digital logo, it would basically mean, that it is illegal to put any kind of PDF documents online -- since they contain texts set in a particular typeface, and ofter contain embedded fonts.

In fact, many foundries allow embedding fonts in PDF documents if so-called font subsetting is active (that means, that only the characters used in the document are embedded, not the entire font).

As mentioned above, my explanations cannot be considered an official legal advice -- for that, please contact Agfa Monotype who is the vendor of the font in question. I would be, however, very surprised to hear that their opinion is much different from mine.

Thank you for using MyFonts.com, best regards,
Adam Twardoch
MyFonts.com typographic consultant

Thank you so much Adam for taking the time to add your wonderful words of wisdom :) ladynimue

Thank Adam... I appreciate your clearing this up. Helen

We should also thank Helen for searching out someone who can give an authorative response to the question. I appreciate Helen in taking that step, and Adam for his thorough and thoughtful answer.

I agree with you totally dialyn - Special thanks to both :) ladynimue

Are you keeping an eye on the legal battles right now? such as Macromedia and other font houses protecting their fonts so they may NOT be embedded in pdf's? It's a pretty big issue right now being decided in the courts. Apparantly, when a font is embedded in a PDF, Adobe is allegedly violating the font house's copyright because said fonts can be extracted from the pdf. Interesting case...

Waves to Cheryle - Glad to see you :) Cheryle; you bring up a great point and a great subject for debate However, if I can make a suggestion Why not post That specific Question in the OT forum? As you know, Renderosity does not use any embedded fonts. I would hate for your interesting information pertaining to a great discussion - to get confused with the issues of fonts being used for Commercial Logos being discussed in this thread! Again, just a suggestion but, why not start a new thread, with your above inquiry, in the OT forum - and you can link your new thread to this one :) Thanks again everyone for your interest in the Logo Contest. Also, special thanks to for taking the time to post his professional insights to this matter. Twardoch; Your thoughtfulness in taking the time to do leave a comment is very appreciated by everyone! Have a great week everyone and keep those Contest Logo Entries coming :] ladynimue Renderosity Moderator