http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=246214. Look at the thankless comments on this post ..I mean ok maybe he is new but my goodness to be so rude to him .........please .....theres a old saying if you cant say something nice about someone why bother saying anything ........Sorry just my little comment but worth every bit of my time . I usually dont bring these issuse up but i couldnt help it this time ..........Please either remove this pic or delete the comments thanks -MQ

Tell me about it, the very same reason I disabled comments on my gallery... Best thing to do in a situation like this...send a message to a moderator and give them time to answer, they are usually very good at handling things like this.

I saw it too. Not sure Red Baron is new....his gallery seems to go back a ways. It's his style I reckon. I will never understand what thrill some people get in posting vulgarities under a picture that someone spent time creating. One of them doesn't even have a gallery....guess that's no surprise!

yeah well, I wish Rend would not aloow such language but they do so we get posts like that....I think it should be removed....."maybe he's new" has nothing to do with acting like an angry child....there's no excuse except low class....

OMG. I knew it would be bad but not that bad. Someting went very wrong in the community starting about two years ago. This stuff has become way too common. This stuff never happened before.

following is my post in respose of yours thanks for pointing it out. dark mauler and rahul should be banned for their use of language and their disscouraging remarks.i'me in no way a pro but aren't we here to encourage new users and help them. I think dark mauler and rahul are the ones who need to get a life.but it's ok guys,we have a shoulder here for you to cry on since you have nothing better to do than downgrade somebody here on the net thats trying something their interested in. you can tell us all about the playground bullies that use to beat you up.

Well, I for one don't care for the profanity and do hope that it stops. Banning is a good thing. Anton, yup, its gotten worse, and it seems to me that its gotten real bad just in the last few months.

You know, I assumed I'd be answering this with a simple "I think we all know there are some very immature people on this site. It's best to just ignore them." I have to admit, this is a new low to me. I did notice the difference in dates, however. The image was posted and originally commented on (civilly by others) last September. It got blitzkrieged about a week ago. Talk about your red lights screaming "Troll!" Obviously some people have serious mental problems and can't find productive ways to deal with life's aggrevations. It's their karma, and it will come back to them eventually.

Clones or idiots you decide. Could be one could be the other, me I think there both.

Internet sites get alot of kids and mentally ill people who are home alot but are online. I think we all assume that most people we see are adults in good mental health. I know sometimes they seem so intense that we try to find reason in it somewhere. I don't think things like this can make sense. Creepy.

God, what a waste of breath. I posted a comment on this image and read on to find that sandoppe and I have the same idea about the age of the offending jerkoffs. ;o) Laurie

I Agree! Very "Childish" behavior! Bullying, is nothing more then "jelaousy" or "Fear". We're supposed to be a community of sharing ideas & tips. But, it seems that like in the "real world", it takes but a few "bad Apples" to tarnish a whole society! I still have faith in humanity & in this community to surmont these little obstacles. :-) Marco

mgshocker, I saw your pic and liked it. I see the ressemblance, and although I do think the knees needed to be repositioned, the foul hurtful profanity went much too far. Even digitally, words can hurt. Sorry that you were the victim of such abuse. --lb

God save us from 14-year-old boys. You know, this reminds me of a story. In my college town, there was a great charitable organization that helped those who were mentally ill or handicapped but at a level where they could function on a day-to-day basis if they had help with some of the more abstract concepts in life. In one of these cases, they were helping a gentleman get set up living on his own in an apartment, and after a few months got a call from his landlord that the rent check had bounced. So they got with him, balanced the book, found his account was indeed empty, and explained this to him. He was bewildered, and answered "I can't be out of money; I still have checks left." This has since been bandied about as a joke, but it makes sense if you understand the background. He could understand money physically, as in I give you a special piece of paper and you give me what I want, but the abstraction of a checking account was beyond him. His mind wasn't capable of understanding that the checks represented money he had in the bank and weren't worth anything by himself. Since then, I've looked at trolls, and wondered if they have similar problems. After all, although they know it factually, they just can't seem to grasp that on the other end of the screen name and the typed messages is another human being, just like them, with feelings and emotions that can be hurt. I wonder, do other abstractions mess with their heads? Are credit cards a mystery to them. Are logical chains like "Swedes are from Sweden, John is a Swede, therefore John is from Sweden" a labyrinthian riddle to them? Or maybe they're just jerks. ^_~

"God, what a waste of breath. I posted a comment on this image and read on to find that sandoppe and I have the same idea about the age of the offending jerkoffs. ;o) Laurie" Amen. I, however, have a great big mouth, and had to reply in kind. :) I guess they are at the age when frenetic masturbation just ain't enough. :D

I just want to thank everyone for their kindness and support. My initial shock, coming home from work and discovering this, has turned to a feeling of warmth and friendship. Renderosity is my favorite place to be, and this just reminds me why. :)

I knew it would be bad but not that bad. Someting went very wrong in the community starting about two years ago yeah, they got rid of c&d, for starters. then, they bent over backwards to make every single screaming (ALL CAPS)newbie with a credit card, or parents with a credit card feel more than equal here. next, they allowed folks on outside "lists"...come on...all of you who have finally opened your eyes and said..."omg...they are tubing MY stuff"...to make, and, control the poser Hot 20. the clue fairy tells me that if a site cares more about making money....trying their very hardest not to ruffle any feathers, than making art....the membership skyrockets. the bigger the crowd, the more likely that there will be more and more "undesirables" in it. Pop...Pop....Poppi this one's for you, Anton. it's for days gone, never to come back.

No worries, Red B. We are generally a supportive community. Ain't we, Anton? illusions? Hey! guys! Please stop trying to kill each other! ;) Welcome to Troll Central, Red. AFAIK, none of my pics has been trolled yet. Maybe because I ain't good enough, or that I just don't give a rat's posterior. Whatever, keep on doing what you're doing. Tis good work.

This is perhaps the worst violation of this portion of the TOS that I've seen. Mods - step up to the plate on this one, (as you usually do so well). From the TOS - restricted activities: "Personal attacks. This includes but is not limited to, destructive, abusive, defamatory communications in any form, and retaliatory attacks from personal attacks. If you need assistance, please communicate with someone from our Renderosity Team. Destructive commentary/communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack (Trolling). This applies to any communications within this community, whether in the forums, art galleries, graffiti wall, chat, or IM."

Did anyone notice that one of the nasty people has put a blonde wig on the p4 woman and called it Britney in their own gallery? I think there is some jealousy behind those comments. Shanna :-)

I followed the above link, saw the picture which really wasn't a bad image at all. Then I noticed the date of the first comment on the image and guess what...it's 9/14/02. I wonder why mgshocker decided to bring it up now?

I like the picture. I left a positive comment as well... My kids call me "The World's Oldest Britney Fan"...

has anybody really watched brittany on stage? i think red saw a picture and nailed it with her dance moves.good job red!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think is pathetic that people with no talent stoop low enough as to insult those of us who re willing and trying to develop ours, it is evident that these two individals, are childish and immature in nature, the best way to deal with this is to notify the moderators about the incident, and have them warn the offending parties, if it continues it could be possible for the moderators to take action against these people....and ofcourse theres always the perpetual can of wupass.

rockets,it's not the first comment...it's the third one,that was on 4/20/03.The butthead that made the comment became a member on 4/19/03(the day before)....clone??..naaa SWAMP

My first impression was the comments were from personal acquaintances or "school chums" just yanking Red Baron's chain, but they're just too brainlessly harsh and infantile to be anything but malicious. Wonder if the Admins here have an option to revoke a trolls gallery posting rights completely or just bann them? At least Red_Baron is getting some supportive comments from this.....

When garbage like this happens, please talk to your friendly neighborhood garbage collectors. ;-) Unfortunately, when a site gets big, there's a few unpleasant side effects, like trolls. This sort of thing really didn't happen 2 years ago because we had far fewer people. As for treating people equally, yeah, we're kinda funny about that. As long as people behave, we treat them equally, credit cards or not. Once they misbehave, whether they're new or whether they've been here a long time, we do something about it. I'm sorry to burst any bubbles, but I haven't any idea who has bought stuff here and who hasn't. If I see see bad behavior, I do something about it. I see the same reactions from other moderators. There's so many things we have to look for that occasionally we miss a troll-by like this. That's why we ask people to IM us or clearly mark a subject with something like "Troll alert" so we catch it. If you can show us proof that people are tubing pictures here and using them elsewhere, we'll take action. We can't act on generalizations - it leads to witch hunts. (Sometimes it takes a day or two for us to track stuff down, even with proof. Also, due to member complaints, we stopped publically announcing warnings and bans, so you may not be aware of action taken. That doesn't mean nothing has happened. Of course, now we get flack for not announcing warnings and bans, but it's impossible to please everyone.) Comments have been removed and action has been taken. Thanks for the heads-up, Crescent Renderosity Mod.

Well something happened because the offending comments are gone. Thought I'd go take a gander at what such neanderthals had to say. Somebody must've stepped in and recitfied the situation. Good Job. Dave

Ditto ditto - good job. Thanks for the remarks and the action, Crescent. It's always a fine line you guys have to walk.

Even gals like crescent. :)

Great job as usual, mods! (crescent this time...)

Praise to the Renderosity crew.

No offense to the obviously good intentions here, but what about freedom of speech? As long as libel or threats are not involved, nasty comments, IMHO, should be met precisely the way they were met on the image in question : by supportive, constructive comments, that told the trolls off in no uncertain terms. The trolls have now had their fifteen seconds of fame - an entire thread devoted to them, and the miniature martyrdom of being censored. I dislike trolling as much as anyone, but I much prefer to see the trolls' displayed openly, with streams of counter-comments. Once you've seen their names (or styles, when they change IDs) a few times, you simply stop reading or responding to their posts - and deny them what they crave : to be taken seriously. It's easy to respond to a troll, really - a simple "Get a life" goes a long way ;o)

Well Dave is right, the comment is gone, but no matter, it is a great pic and thank you for sharing it. Sharen

thip - the problem is, it tends to encourage the trolls if we keep their comments while new people are scared off from the site. We've had a few people leave because they were badly trolled. The trolls get a kick out of seeing their comments and all the responses to their comments. If we're told about the problem quickly - preferrably by IM instead of public threads, we can knock out the comments and the trolls don't accomplish anything but eventually banning. Trolls go away if they're ignored or deleted into obscurity. If we have to decide between "catering" to artists who want to share their knowledge and artwork or trolls who want to destroy, I know which way I'm going to go. Cheers!

It's like graffiti on the streets. If you leave it up, more graffiti is added. If you paint it out, the gangsters-want-to-be eventually go somewhere else. Other little cowards will creep back but at least the original ones go away for awhile. Leaving the poison up does nothing but pollute the environment. Ask me how I know.

Thip, there are limits to free speech. Defamation of character is not protected by the first amendment. Also, the first amendment applies to gov't, not private organizations. Any web site can take whatever line they want. If they want to ban speech that the gov't can't ban, then they can do it. That said, I hope osity does ban and remove this kind of stuff. As I said, I for one don't want to read the profanity and defamation and if a web site removes thatstuff then I'm happy to continue to participate. If a web site lets the filth stand, then I'll move on to a cleaner neighborhood. Its that simple.

And don't get me wrong, the mods here do an excellant job of taking care of this stuff when it comes to their attention. That's one of the reasons I like 'Osity.

okay...i've been biting my tongue to keep my mouth shut for a couple of posts, now... since when did this post become about those who stop and view a graphic? good grief. trolling is bad because it is HURTFUL to the artist. what you might find offensive, others might not. If a web site lets the filth stand, then I'll move on to a cleaner neighborhood. Its that simple most of us hear the "f" word, at least every day...in the real world. i'm just wondering how "clean" you want to make this neighborhood. i hear the "f" word, every day...but, don't see tits 'n ass all day in MY neighborhood....will you be trying to put constraints on images, next? the comments were mean....that is why they should have been removed, not, because they were vulgar, and, may have offended a latter viewer. graffitti is ugly....but, not generally out to hurt another's feelings.

hummmmm...when have we discussed whether troll remarks should be removed because they are hurtful, as opposed to being vulgar? i must have missed that same old topic.

I don't get it. Where's the vulgar speech in the comments? I don't see anything out of line. Some people commenting to each other rather than about the pic but that's all.

hehe Mason its been removed by a mod. Trust us it was pretty trashy .

You didn't miss much, Mason. They were quite unimaginative - "look what naughty words I learned on the playground at recess" insults.

Well I'm just going to repeat Crescent here - if you see something like this, tell a mod immediately. We'll decide wether a non-constructive comment should be removed. Comments in the gallery that are not constructive can and will be removed by a moderator at their discretion. Most of the time we're fairly easy going about it, but in situtations like this we reserve the right to delete nonsense. As for freedom of speech ... we have certain rules. Most of those rules fall under common courtesy. If that bothers you ...please go elsewhere. This site is an amazing resource for artists provided at no charge. If you want to do the equivalent of peeing on the sidewalk, we will ask you to leave. And lastly regarding possible discrimination due to any factor ...I have to say that I at least don't give a damn about a members age, time here, merchant status or anything else. As long as a member follows the rules, they can do as they bloody well please, and I don't care. Lyrra the Cranky (moderator)

The point, really, wasn't so much the language as what the language was being used to express, I think. I mean, not as many people would have cared if it had been in the vein of "Wow, that is f-ing cool! You are one talented MF-er!" and at worst the person may have been politely asked to edit/delete-and-repost the message with cleaner language. The real problem was that it was insulting; the vulgarity just increased the insult.

And lastly regarding possible discrimination due to any factor ...I have to say that I at least don't give a damn about a members age, time here, merchant status or anything else. As long as a member follows the rules, they can do as they bloody well please, and I don't care. i follow the rules, lyrra. my gallery has been trashed not once, not twice, but 3 TIMES. the first time....i made it known to the mods...it took 3 days for the trolling remarks to be dealt with. the second time...quickly dealt with...liftan, again. the third time...actually happened twice to my last one that made the hot 20....well, not one, but, 2 liftan ..."i hate america" clones. i didn't bother to even tell you guys. you don't care. you're like receptionists, of late...not, passionate artists. i simply tried to deal with it on my own. when that did not work, i disabled comments. but, the damage was done. the rating was "good". oh, my...2 weeks almost straight number 1 in the hot 20 with a "good" rating???? i don't post, much, here, anymore. why? because, art has, in reality...not what you tell the masses, but, in REALITY, has become secondary. moving right along to the "banner" contest....i have heard that i cannot make my font in lightwave, or rhino. i have been hit by the clue fairy that either i can use your template, or, purchase a font for $22.00. something about renderosity "owning" the trademark??? if this is really the truth, please give some links to the case law involved in "owning" the word "Renderosity"? once upon a time we had a Renderosibee....not long ago. many had fun with it. but, i think, that the creator bailed on this site, like many talented others.