I have been visiting galleries here in Nashville, looking at photographic exhibitions. I have been on line looking at photography websites of various "FAMOUS" photographers. I have been to book stores and libraries examining books on various techniques and "artists". I have visited YOUR websites and pictures in our own little gallery here at the forum. I have seen work here that I consider better than the big names. I have seen stuff here that is so-so and I have seen stuff by the big names "out there" that is also is less than what "I" consider of artistic merit that it is heaped upon it. I know that we have a lot of talented people here with a very "good eye" and technical expertise. There are some of us who lack the "technical expertise (myself being in this group) and couldn't explain the difference between an F-stop and a bowl of oatmeal but still manage to shoot a sometimes pleasing photograph. I realize that this is a rather abstract and subjective question, but what makes a good photographer good? why do some of them sell crap and some folks who shoot great pictures couldn't give their stuff away? is it marketing? luck? timing? the position of the sun and the moon? I don't mean to sound like I bitching or anything because I'm not. I'm just curious why some people can shoot a picture of a pile of sand and everybody thinks they are the next big thing and then the next person shoots a picture that evokes emotion and brings a person to tears but the sandpile gets the bigger response? I guess I'm just trying to figure out my own progress as a picture taker, because I don't have enough experience built up with this photography hobby to consider myself a "photographer", much less as an "artist". does this sound as goofy as I think it does?

No, it is not a stupid question. Damn'd if I know. Maybe some of the folks in Art History type classes could formulate a good answer. I suspect it has little to do with technical skill, or even with doing something that has never been done before. I suspect it also has little to do with making a good living out of it, or being recognized as a visionary. I suspect it has quite a lot to do with being at the right place at the right time, and capturing the imagination of the culture. I'd guess it cannot be a "part time" thing, but require real dedication and passion. A very big part of it seems to be using the cutting edge technologies. If digital photography is not considered by the mainstream as "real" art, those working in the digital media may someday be considered visionaries. For the working professional, rather than the "artist," the formula is much simpler: can the customer get a predictable result, on time, and within budget.

Not so goofy. This is just personal opinion, but i think there is a WORLD of difference between a "good photographer" and a "famous" or "well known photographer" - and they come with different definitions and goals. (Yes, there are several "good and well known photographers"). To me, a good photographer is in complete control of his work, both technically and aesthetically (that's why I love photography so much - exercises both sides of the brain to get it to work!). He (she) has the compositional eye to convey a message to a viewer, and the technical skill to create that image - it's the ability to visually produce what he (she) sees in the mind's eye. Perhaps more than anything else, the good photographer does it as an expression of who he/she is - he/she does it because it what they love to do - regardless if anyone else appreciates it or not (though it's much more fun when they do!) They see their work first - almost all-consuming...to the point where they really don't want to spend a whole lot of time promoting themselves (some of the most creative people are extremely shy - that's why they are so creative - it's a method of communication for them...and "selling themselves" to some publisher or whatever is very difficult for them.) Now - a well known photographer (and I refer to the "well knowns" that, I think, you are describing - high in hype - low in image quality) - sets himself/herself (this is getting old - sorry girls, but from here on out, I'm just gonna say "he" - not to exclude anyone - just saves typing) into a position where their images are wanted - done in several ways: 1: Writing. There are gobs of photographers out there who are able to sell so-so images because submissions they make to publications are accompanied with written copy. Publishers in general will buy complete packages (text and photos) WAY before they'll buy a single image. Editors walls are filled with excellent photographs that were never published just because there was no "fit" into one story or another. Once the guy gets his story/photos published, he can ride that wave to make a name for himself - and if he wants to make that name "a photographer", he can do it. After all, which sounds more impressive - "I've got a shot printed on page 13..." - or - "I've got a story with a series of photos in the center section of the magazine..."? Your post struck me with particular interest - as it pretty much sums up a scenario that I went through several years back. I got a call from someone (we'll can him "Ray") who was writing a book on a particular "photogenic" subject (we'll call it "boxes" - I really don't want this to get back to him, because I respect him, so "the names and so have been changed". He wanted to learn photography to incorporate some photos into his book about boxes, so we started going out together so I could teach him a few things. Well, the more he learned, the more he got into photography - and so the jist of his book became more photographic oriented - to the point where it turned into a "how to photograph boxes" book (complete with mediocre photos of boxes and descriptions of how he shot them. The book was published, and the phone started ringing (his, not mine) - people wanting him to teach seminars, judge contests, run complex week-long photographic outings, etc. Instant "well known" photographer (four years of sulking, and I got over it - but it really did bug me. MANY people here are MUCH better photographers than he (not to sound cocky, but I'm one of them) - but he was able to make a name for himself anyway. What he has going for him is the ability to self promote and the confidence to aim extremely high (which is probably what ticked me off - because I don't....I'm still waiting around for the world to knock on my door) Sorry for the long reply - but, like I said, your post struck a note with me.

short & sweet: advertising & self-promotion, gallery showings, word of mouth, & some good old fashion ass kissing!

Not much more to be said here. Market, self promotion, yada, yada, yada... Point is, do you want to be famous or an artist? I want to be an artist. If I get famous, great. if I make a living at it greater! If I satisfy my desire to create images that invoke thought and/or emotion, I am a success. I get more from someone on this forum telling me I did well and that they got something from it than I do if I get money. I won't turn done money in most cases, but the fact that another talanted person likes my work tells me I am doing something. Nothing moved me more then when my mentor told me "dude you have got the eye". I have admired his work for years. how famous is he? He makes furniture to pay his bills. Magick Michael

What a question! Someone has already posted "Marketing and self promotion". If you are in photography for the $$$, then it is important to know the market. Some markets like the "crap" and some markets like the "Art". Knowing which market to submit your work to, is the key to the $$$. A good book to read is "The Photographer's Market", it can be found at almost any bookstore. If you are in photography for the pleasure of it, then simply shoot anything you want, and if you like it, that's all that really matters! There is one word the describes a "Good Photographer"; CONSISTINTCY.(Probably mis-spelled).

in regards to advertising and marketing, a good rag to read would be Communication Arts.

EH? Sod being good or not, just give me the fame and money. Hell, I'll even skip the fame.......... (",)

If you want $$$$ you gotta photography models. Lets face it as a famous entreprenuer FREDRICK ( of Fredricks of Hollywood Fame ) once said "SEX ALWAYS SELLS " Bsteph