xadmax2 has posted an item in Freestuff that appears to be a Kamikaze Pilot. It is called "Jap." As a Japanese-American I am deeply offended by this racial slur. Jap is to us as Nigger is to an African American, and Kike is to a Jew. I demand an apology and hope that xadmax2's sculpture is not a hate symbol.

In all fairness nakamuram , if you look at xadmax2 post's you can tell english is not his first language nor his strong suit and neither is his spelling . I cant quite tell what languge or country they come from so it could be it wasnt intentional to be a derogitory statement twords your race and country. Useally some one like that will have a gallery full of derogitory type images and i just dont see that there. It hard to tell exactly what the image is that you mentioned as well. How do you know this person is not from japan ? so would it still be derogitory then ? Though i understand your fealing are hurt , you need to chill out a bit and get some more facts first.

Xadmax2's real name is definitely not Japanese (see Members). I don't see any posts from this person in any Renderosity Forum. I hope the rest of your reply is correct. Maybe this subject thread will bring the facts out.

Oh gee... Will someone please post a list of what NOT to call someone? Well I know you're not supposed to call anybody "nigger" - unless you're a black person yourself in which case it seems to be ok (Lots of rap-texts uses it at least) Jap for me is merely short for japanese. Didn't know it was offending. Kike? Never in my life heard that word. What is it's origin? What I'm trying to say is that we are NOT all american in here. We are not all trying hard to insult other people (at least I'm not L) - in fact we usually try to help each other. While I can understand that you don't like the word "jap", please try to understand that the use of it with 99% certainty was NOT meant in any disrespectful manner. Now if I had called you a "ske" it would have been something else ;o)

I wouldn't call anyone "jap" as long as they don't call me gaijin (or such). ;0) "Kamikaze pilot" would be a more descriptive and less offensive title. I'd IM or email xadmax2 and note the derogatory nature of the title. Good chance that he/she will not mind changing it. BYS

You might translate it into spanish . It loooks like that might be there first language .

Ernyoka, I am pretty sure the word is Yiddish. It usually refers to a low class independent businessman whose ethics are questionable at best and is greedy and aggressive - $1 down a $1/week for the rest of your life for some worthless crap - and whose collection tactics are a model for loan sharks to follow - and whose prey are the economically and intellectually disadvantaged.

=> Ernyoka1, "Ske", fnis, er du dansker?!

Jap is short for Japanese...kike & nigger are not short for anything...find something real to obsess over!

Hi just a point the word that refers to black people stems from the bad old days of slavery see 'Roots' and refers to the fact that a lot of people were taken originaly from the banks of the river niger(sp) or from nigeria. just my addition btw whats in a name except the power you give it? Dave

Hanz: Ja, osse i den grad :o) Det er du sosse kan jeg nten gte?

All, Having taken a look a xadmax2's piece of work, I must admit that I am not really sure whether it intends to be a reactionary racial slur or an anti-racist artistic/political statement which utilizes a racial slur to make its point. In truth I think it can be read either way. (Personally, I think it is an anti-racist statement, but art is necessarily open to disparate interpretations.) However this may be, I am dismayed at the dismissive apologetics used to excuse the piece to this point. I suspect that nakamuram's sense of outrage arises from either one of two sources: (a) the caricaturish (and thus potentially insulting) nature of the bust that xadmax2 depicts. While I find the exaggerations of the piece as obvious and deliberate (and strangely beautify in its way,) as a non-Japanese American not subject the cultural taunts and slurs of this sort, I am free to look for the artistic beauty of the piece. For it is easier to be "objective" (whatever that means) when you are not the one likely to be insulted. Secondly, I suspect that nakamuram may be insulted by the racist cultural/historical implications of conflating the terms "Jap," the historical significance of the WWII Kamikaze pilot with anyone of Japanese origin. For using the tern, "Jap" is to invoke the dark spectre of the WWII era racist hatred of the Japanese. For nakamuram has admitted his/her American heritage. Should all people of Japanese heritage be the target of such hatred? After all, several hundred thousand AMERICAN citizens were wrongfully and shamefully deprived of their libery and livelihoods by being incarcerated in American internment camps for this very racist reason. To conflate Kamikazes with all Japanese is the same as conflating Nazis with all Germans, not just in Germany, but worldwide. Who does such a thing? The insidious power of such statements comes, I think, from their being accepted as ok and taken for granted. Nakamuram, thank you for not allowing us to take it for granted. Having said this, I still think the piece is a passionate (and beautifully aggressive) anti-racist statement. But, unlike some above, I refuse to let my artistic sensibilities cause me to be blind to another human's pain. I hope others agree. I will step down now. --lb

Here is my two-cents....even if it may only be worth that. I am half-japanese and half american/irish. I am a product of WWII, and born here is the US.....DesMoines, Iowa to be exact. My mother left Iowa when I was about 3 years old, to get away from the hatred. Although, my sisters and I, grew up in San Francisco, California.....a melting pot of the west coast, we still endured the racial slurs, ridicule, the shunning, and even being spit upon by people we didn't know, just because we were of Japanese decent. That was a long time ago, and I have tried to forgive and forget, but when something like this comes up.......Yes, it does bring back ugly memories. I really don't believe the person who said this, meant it as it was taken, but perhaps, if he/she had just placed a "period" at the end of the word "jap", no-one would have taken offense? To me, that would have meant that it was just an abbreviation for the word, Japanese....but as it stands.....obviously.........it offended someone. I have also heard Black people call each other the "N" word, but to be quite honest....in all my years, I have NEVER heard a Japanese person call another Japanese person, a "Jap" and I think that is because they/we do not like to be called that or want to be reminded of the time time that we were? Take care all....and I hope I Did'nt offend anyone. (: Genny

I have no opinion on he piece in question, but the reactions I'm seeing here to nakamuram's posting are disturbing. "Can't ya take a joke?!" is the battlecry of the racist, the sexist, the homophobe, and usually follows some sort of extremely unfunny attempt to promulgate hatred and reactionary agitprop. But with Amerika's unelected generalissimo-in-chief thinking "paki" is a fine word to use for those funny brown people from Pakistan, it's not surprising that cultural insensitivity is on the rise.

Nestor Makhno, the great Ukrainian anarchist, executed two of his own men with his own pistol for putting up anti-semitic posters. Despite a fanatical dedication to free expression, Makhno recognized the danger of racist hatemongering -- and indeed, he would be proved tragically justified when Buchenwald and Auschwitz opened their doors 20 years later.

"I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then go down and meet them with baseball bats." -- Woody Allen, on the KKK

You could be Right........"HeWhoKnows"........as the file in question is "corrupt"! I really don't know if this was, intended as a joke, but that is what I got when I downloaded it. LOL! I don't know where the word, "paki" came from, to be honest, I had not heard or read that until your post....but, don't you think, at some point in history, that Word, would be taken as offensive? Or should we all just accept that as to mean "Pakastanie" for short? Genny

Just a few observations. 1. Xadmax2 is Spanish in origin. His name is Gerardo Perusquia. In 2 years of membership he has contributed 13 freestuff items and 18 gallery images, many of them excellent, to this community. 2. The touchy Mr Nakamura has contributed nothing in the year he's been here. Zip. Nada. Not even a pixel on a page. 3. The freestuff contributions Xadmax2 makes are all in MAX freestuff, so why post the complaint in the Poser forum? Could it be that Mr Nakamura knows he'll get a lot more 'bites' by posting here rather than the MAX forum? His email inbox must be pleasantly full of Rosity e-bots already. 4. How come its always non-contributing members who post these wasp-nest-stirring threads? 5. The proper approach to this would have been an IM to Xadmax2 asking him to change the name of the 'offensive' item. It didn't and doesn't deserve an accusation of racism in the largest open forum on Rosity. 6. I think its Nakamuram who owes US an apology for dragging this sordid little excuse of a complaint here where it fersure doesn't belong.

• "Kike" was probably extracted from some of the -ki and -ski and similar endings common on Slavonic surnames.
• "Paki" is short for "Pakistani". The name was invented officially from "Punjab, Afghan border states, Kashmir, Baluchistan", but (I think) "pak" is also Urdu for "peace". http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivilization/ email group (mostly Hindu Indians) says "Pak" for "Pakistan" and "Paki" for "Pakistani" plenty of times.
• "Yeed" with a long vowel is Yiddish for "Jew", I think.
• The author Rudyard Kipling used the word "nigger" plenty of times in his books without intending derogatoryness.
• I read that the name of the river Niger does not come from the Latin for "black", but from Tuareg language "Gher n Gherem" = "the river of rivers". The Tuareg are Sahara desert nomads.

Personally, I don't think, Nakamuram, owes an apology to anyone! He/she simply stated what he/she felt. Do you feel that you need to apologize for the things you may have posted in the past? We are all here to learn from "each other".............this is a place where we can voice our opinions.......and from "Nakamuram's" opinion we "should" all learn that it is NOT acceptable to name anything "JAP". I gather, that you are probably an average "white-male-caucation" who grew up in the US, with parents who lived their lives trying to do "right" for their children.......wellllll, we all didn't grow up with that way! Personally, I don't contribute, that is because I have to work and have other commitments.......but I AM A BUYER. I could be wrong.......but my purchases, MUST account for something.........otherwise........who is paying for this forum????? If you think that those of us who "BUY" stuff from here "DON'T COUNT" then maybe, this forum should become a "membership" only place, where you all can say what you want, when-ever you want and give away any freebies you want and call it "Whatever" you may what to call it, and so what??? if it offends someone? If, I can't state my opinion here, simply because I don't contribute to the "Freestuff"...and, my opinion doesn't hold any validity, because I don't contribute to "Free-Stuff........then.....what's the point of being a member? Genny

This is the point! The word "Jap" came from the hatred and predujudice of the people of the United States. It was never intended to be used as an abbreviation of the word "Japanese". This word was created and used "ONLY" to humiliate a person of "japanese" decent. If you believe different....that is because.........you are NOT of Japanese decent. Genny

If I may? Deep breath everyone.
If this was intended as a racial slur, then the item should be pulled and xadmax2 should be banned. An official warning at the very least, but I think banning would be more appropriate.

HOWEVER, let's give sa the benefit of a doubt first. Note the misspelling of the word skull (as skrul) in another of his freebies. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. I can only imagine what I could get myself into if I tried to post something in Spanish or Japanese; I know just enough of either language to get myself in serious trouble.

I think the appropriate action would be to IM xadmax2 and an admin, informing them both that this is not appropriate. There's little to suggest that sa regularly comes to this forum, so demanding your apology here is pointless; demand it of him. If you feel others should be alerted, that's fine. Many of us, especially in an international community, are still trying to figure out what is and is not acceptable. Again, I can only imagine what kinds of trouble I could get myself into on a Japanese board. But I think it would work better to keep the complaint separate from the enlightenment, or some will feel that they are the target of both and react accordingly.

Hi Ok this is me speaking as a 'pommi','limey', Brit or what ever else you want to call me (btw I find Brit annoying in that I'm British from Britain). I also was and still am the skinnyest person in school (not now i'm 39) and so was picked on and called all sorts until I stood up to the bullies. What I did learn however was that 'whats in a name' like I said if you give a 'power' to a name some ....people will use it against you just let it ride they will soon get fed up with calling names. OK now back to the main point......which I belive is people are lazy in that if they can contract something they will. An example being (e.g.) ASAP how many times do you here this or "as soon as...". Languages change and so do the conotations(sp) Swear words for instance if a **** word is used too much it tends to loose it's shock value, how many times have you said s..t and no ones batted an eyelid but if you said 'sod' to your grandmother all hell would have broken loose! Also most times it's not the words it's how they are spoken that matters , anyone remember ALF and Shazbot! to get back to the point tho' Jap is one syllable and Japanese is 3 like I said people are lazy or sometimes they shorten words for speed (ASAP again ) forinstance radio calls etc. It just beggers belief that some people let others rattle them. just me Dave the skinny limey pommie rake bean pole match with clothes on etc etc (call me what ever)

"Jap is short for Japanese...kike & nigger are not short for anything...find something real to obsess over!"

Dizzie, FYI... Just because the term "Jap" shares similar spelling with "Japan" and "Japanese" doesn't mean it's an appropriate short form for those words. "Nip" is also an offensive term for the Japanese and it's derived from the Japanese word "Nippon" (which means Japan in that language.) Remember when Pres. Bush used the term "Pakis" to refer to the Pakinstani people and the flap that caused?

The terms "Jap" and "Nip" were used extensively in WW2, in anti-Japanese propaganda, and it harkens back to that dark point in history when the Japanese were hated enemies so it's really not a good idea to use either terms.

"The touchy Mr Nakamura has contributed nothing in the year he's been here. Zip. Nada. Not even a pixel on a page."

While I agree with Replicant in that Nakamura might have chosen a more diplomatic approach to the problem, I don't see why the number of art gallery images or contributions to Free Stuff has anything to do with the validity of someone's argument or opinion in regards to the topic of racial slurs in the content of this community. I can understand how such things might lend towards someone's credibility when it comes to their opinions on art, or modeling or other such related topics, but I don't see how any of that matters in this particular case. This community is about sharing and is open to everyone's participation--- artists and the general public alike.

I think Nakamura's concern is a genuine one and it really isn't contingent on what he has or has not put into the art gallery or Free Stuff.

When it comes to things such as racial slurs, people shouldn't be blasted for speaking up about it. This stuff is simply unacceptable, PERIOD. I believe it was an honest mistake on Xadmax2's part and there was no malice in it but someone spoke up about it and now (I would hope) people know better.

Nuke

If you refer to the point I made before that one nukem I was trying to point out that Xadmax has made several contributions to the community while nakamuram doesn't seem to have made any. And again why post a complaint about someone who posts MAX freebies in the Poser forum?

But Replicant also hit the nail on the head when he said that Xadmax2 is a MAX person! For crying out loud unless someone points him to this thread, chances are he will NEVER even KNOW what he's accused of. Why not IM the guy, or if that isn't satisfying enough, post this in the MAX forum Still I think it's a lot of fighting over what I am SURE was ahonest mistake/question of not KNOWING it could be insulting. And then.. I've looked at the thumbnail. Not even in my brightest imagination can I get that statue to look like a kamikaze pilot. I like it but it doesn't even look like a japanese to me. What if there was an alien race called japs? How can you be sure it wasn't one of those he sculpted?

ah partly crossposted with Replicant :o)

"5. Re: Racial Slur by BeatYourSoul on 5/22/03 01:18 I wouldn't call anyone "jap" as long as they don't call me gaijin" Heeeey! what's wrong with my name? :P

If I posted a complaint everytime someone called me asshole my fingers would fall off. Oh, please if any of you ARE assholes please, no offense intended.

I am going to post a new character in freestuff and call him "cracker". Being white myself, and american, I will be deeply offended by myself, and will force myself to remove my character from freestuff, thus he will no longer be available, sorry folks. and nuke, these days to alot of us crackers, at least us round-eyed ones... the word "nip" is short for nipple. My nipples tell me they are offended. They prefer to be referred to as "ronies". Evo

ROTFLLLLLL Evo

Not because he posted to the Poser thread about a 3DSMax freebie, but because he did not also post in the 3DSMax thread. It is just as obvious that he is meerly trying to stir up trouble as it is that the freebie in question is a racial slur. Jap is indeed derogatory when applied to people. I use it myself, both as an indication of quality, when referring to products, such as Jap cars, and as a derogatory term applied specifically to Japanese soldiers during WWII. I have and never will use it to refer to any other Japanese people, especially not Japanese Americans during WWII. I found it very disturbing in Hich School when our history text books devoted a single paragraph to the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII. Perhaps the reason for this was that, while the text book included only a single paragraph, our teacher spent two weeks on this subject, using documents she personally collected. This clearly this illustrated that, this attrocity deserved much better coverage in the history texts. We complain about the Japanese failing to teach their children about the attrocities committed by Japanese soldiers against not only Americans, but other Asians during WWII, yet neglect to teach our own children about the internment of Japanese Americans by our own government. It has previously been mentioned that Japanese Americans were deprived of liberty and livelyhood, but this doesn't begin to convey just how deep this attrocity bit. Not only were Japanese Americans deprived of their livelyhood, but the US government made no attempt to protect their property while they were imprisoned. Many returned to find that their houses had been ransacked and stripped of all valuables. Adding insult to injury, while the US was very eager to press the issue of property stolen from the Jews in WWII, it still almost totally ignores this theft from Japanese Americans. BTW, I am of German descent, but my father got the opportunity to fight aganst the Nazis during WWII. How many Japanese Americans were permitted to fight for their country? Dale LaRoy Splitstone

yup- being white (english, scotish and german) being called everything from indian killer to kraut,ghost,cracker,round eye,honkey, on and on and on....... be happy there was only one word for you I know we did all kinds of bad things, we also brought refrigerators and 57 cheveys and barbaque grills ect.... no one is all good or bad. get over it - lead the way ignore the stupid embrace the good

"get over it - lead the way"

And then you wonder why people fly planes into your big corporate penises.

I agree with BeatYourSoul, if you want my advice, try to IM him/her and tell them you are offended, work it out between yourselves, it may open up a great relationship. Oh yes, and try not to be honest, upfront and non hurtful as you speak. Sharen :-)

im abit confused here, came into this late... i doubt he ment to be offensive, just like when people call me a injun or redskin, there not meaning to be offensive, there's also quite a few black i know myself here in washington that nigga isn't offensive to them where nigger is, but i think it pretty much depends on the person. Words can be a tricky game play, I would do as SAMS3D said, IM him and explain how its seen as a hurtful thing by you, be honest and upfront. I doubt he ment it to be a slur.

nakamuram: I assume you've contacted xadmax2 directly? Kev.

Replicant: "The touchy Mr Nakamura has contributed nothing in the year he's been here. Zip. Nada. Not even a pixel on a page."

And this is relevant...how?

Replicant: "If you refer to the point I made before that one nukem I was trying to point out that Xadmax has made several contributions to the community while nakamuram doesn't seem to have made any."

And this has relevance to a member feeling offended...how?

Replicant: "How come its always non-contributing members who post these wasp-nest-stirring threads?"

Replicant has a gallery, nakamuram doesn't, neither have contributed freestuff...they both have made posts in multiple forums...that hardly makes Replicant more of a contributor than nakamuram! Merely being a member of this site gives one all the license required to have an opinion and express it!

Without hearing from xadmax2, one might assume that his use of the word was an unfortunate choice and not meant to be offensive. It may be, for any number of reasons, that xadmax2 doesn't have any idea that the word may have a negative racial context to it and used it innocently. That is by no means meant to minimize the impact of the word as a slur, or the offensiveness it may have to some people. Certainly, a more appropriate way to have handled this would have been for nakamuram to have contacted a Mod/Admin or contacted xadmax2 directly with his concerns.

Maybe he meant Jewish American Princess. :-p

Illusions, read Replicant's post again. He is not claiming that a lack of contribution is actually a reason to regard to opinion of someone lower then an others. He's merly voicing his suspicion that Mr. Nakamura is in fact a Troll tring to stir up a hornets nest. (looks like he succceeded). Don't feed the Trolls. If indeed anyone has a problem with anyone else they should confront that person with it by writing an e-mail or IM not by smearing someones name on a forum (and a inrelevant forum at that). Cheers, Axe.

Attached Link: http://www.3dcafe.com/models/brain02.zip

Being Jewish, JAP does stand for Jewish American Princess. But we all know that wasn't what it stood for in the model. As many-many Americans I from a Mix of backgrounds-Bloodlines. My Dads Family were all English except his Grandmother who was 100% Irish. Mothers was a real mix-Jewish, French Canadian, Lakota, German. So thats why you find this Jew doing pictures of Faes, elves and Angels. In my family now we have so many differant religions and differeant races, No one gets hung up on polical right words. We just all love and respect each other. ***By the way try calling someone from Mexico a spanish person, they will correct you and say they are Mexicans. ***Also many many African Americans hate that name and will tell you they are an American who happens to be Black. Mitakuye oyasin ( we are all related) Peace Shalom Leah

"If you refer to the point I made before that one nukem I was trying to point out that Xadmax has made several contributions to the community while nakamuram doesn't seem to have made any. And again why post a complaint about someone who posts MAX freebies in the Poser forum?"

Granted, perhaps Nakamura should have chosen the proper forum but again, I don't see how the number and quality of contributions has anything to do with one member feeling offended by a racial slur used by another member.
Your third point says it all but why all the heavy emphasis on the number and quality of contributions (points #1, #2 and #4) each one has made? The impression you're giving about your stance is that just because Nakamura doesn't have significant contributions in the galleries or free stuff as Xadmax does, that Nakamura somehow doesn't have the right to post a complaint about Xadmax. A user's license to post isn't contingent on the number of gallery/free stuff items they've made.

EvoShandor:

When SARS broke out in my city, little kids shouted taunts and were throwing rocks at the homes of quarantined Asian families. And then there were the jokes sometimes outright open hostility. Asian families were suffering, some even losing multiple family members from the virus...

This may not strike a nerve with you but I'm a member of a visible minority, I and members of my family have been the target of racial slurs, and it does strike a nerve with me. Obviously it does the same with other members of Renderosity's international community. So, you'll have to excuse me if I don't find you quite as humorous as Dizzie does.
Perhaps the humour wouldn't be lost on me on a better day...

Dale LaRoy Splitstone: "BTW, I am of German descent, but my father got the opportunity to fight aganst the Nazis during WWII. How many Japanese Americans were permitted to fight for their country?"

You might be interested in the 100th Battalion, 442nd Regimental Combat Team:

Article Link

"Nineteen of the 21 Asian Pacific American veterans are Japanese Americans of the celebrated 100th Battalion/442nd Regimental Combat Team, the most highly decorated unit in the history of the U.S. armed forces. The unit earned over 18,000 individual decorations, including 9,486 Purple Hearts and seven Presidential Unit Citations, the nation's top award for combat units. The 100th/442nd's famous motto, "Go for Broke," reflects its reputation for accomplishing its mission despite all costs. Many of the Japanese Americans who served in the 100th/442nd volunteered from internment camps where their families had been relocated to after the outbreak of war."

I should point out that the 442nd Nisei were the most highly decorated unit in the history of the U.S. armed forces for its size and length of service.

More info here.

Nuke

well, everyone having said everything I was gonna say, best to say nothing..;) Could it just be possible for the guy to cambio la llama?..;) 'nuff not said..;)

the name was modified, hopefully 'japanese' will be ok.

well the guy changed the name, so the pitchforks tar and feathers can get put away now <--joke ducks

Darn! And after all that late night work building the gallows... ;0) BYS

"can't we all just get a thong" - Rodney King.... Gonna head to the PC bar and get me a african american russion.. ~Peace~ ;)

I remember looking for a dictionary in Romania once, took me bloody ages. Why couldn't I find one? Apparently, I was looking in the wrong book shops... Turns out there are two kinds of book shops in Romania, those that sell books in Romanian, and those that sell books in Hungarian. I got shouted at a lot when I asked why I couldn't find the book I wanted, made no sense to me, but it seems to work for them. The "ethnic Hungarians" had the best internet cafe's anyway :) My point? Racism/tribalism/ethnocetricity is endemic, it's part of what it is to be human. I'm an "insel apfen", a "roast beef", "Northen Scum" Actually that's a lie, to my eternal shame, I was born in London. Still, at least I'm not a "Lager drinker" :) It's only insulting if you want to be insulted, in which case changing the name changes nothing, because that's just language, it's the "intent" that's import. Right? I stick by my original comment "Arse!" :) later jb

Axe_Gaijin: *"He is not claiming that a lack of contribution is actually a reason to regard to opinion of someone lower then an others.

He's merly voicing his suspicion that Mr. Nakamura is in fact a Troll tring to stir up a hornets nest. (looks like he succceeded)."*

Get real! It's obvious from the number of times he made the statements, and made comparisons of the number of contributions by xadmax and nakamuram that's exactly what Replicant meant...A simple check of the member list shows nakamuram has been a member for over a year, lists a Real Name that is unlikely to be a fake, and a search shows he's made a moderate number of posts in various forums since he joined...not the behavior of a Troll. Replicant had to have checked that, otherwise he would not have know nakamuram had been a member for a year and had no gallery or free stuff contributions.

Replicant: "The touchy Mr Nakamura has contributed nothing in the year he's been here. Zip. Nada. Not even a pixel on a page"

Hmmm...maybe you were reading the wrong post Axe, try reading posts 16 and 23! Replicant clearly states:

"Xadmax has made several contributions to the community while nakamuram doesn't seem to have made any."

It's pretty clear that Replicant is saying that nakamuram has no right to complain or state an opinion because of a "lack" of contributions to the community. You gotta be sure you understand what's being stated Axe, otherwise could end up appearing foolish.

;^P

. . . . . . OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! why not do the sensible thing? talk to the man. yes.. talk to the man. instead of cluttering up the forum with this??? this does not belong in any Art Forum. It belongs either in General Discussion areas or to be closed and handled by an Admin. goes to get a coffee and to find away to ignore msg threads on this board

Oro?

Excellent link, I just wish I could find the link again to the web page of a Japanese doctor who was in WWII. I especially liked the comments that he made about misinformation Japanese soldiers were given about the Americans at the beginning of WWII. One interesting tidbit was that they we told not to get within unarmed combat range of Americans because Americans were all boxers. Another was that American hand granades were defective, in that they could only kill from a distance. This doctor goes on to tell how, when an American pineaple was lobbed a few yards away from him he scrambled furiously to get within three feet of it so he would be safe. Fortunately for him, the pineapple was a dud. Dale LaRoy Splitstone