Having examined Orio's Tutorial, and especially by observing that Greenworks (Xfrog) has produced, and are GIVING AWAY, plug-ins for MAX, Lightwave, Maya and probably other 3D programs- WHY NOT give the necessary plug-in code to E-onsoftware (Vue) and leth Vue (which doesn't actually support plug-ins as such) issue a new FREE upgrade which allows users to read-in XFR files (the native Xfrog format). This would work the same way the Poser import to Vue works now! This would be an ideal WIN-WIN solution for both software companies, I would think! Am I wrong?

First of all, i don't think that it is so easy to integrate new elements in a complex piece of software. Second. E-on already has integrated vegetation and in a way a very sophisticated one (you don't have identical elements if you do not duplicate but create them). Why should they give up? Do you think that Greenworks is willing to give their sources away? To give a readymade plug-in away is something completely different than sources! I agree that it would be a win-win situation for most of the users (not for me as a Mac user - another point why it would not be a good thing for e-on, supporting different platforms), but not for e-on, so far. Only my two cents, Walther

I agree with Walther. Vue has the greatest and absolutely unic vegetation system you can imagine. Each tree, each plant allows you to create thousands of new trees and plants. And none of it looks the same then the previous. Even Xfrog (VERY!!! expensive) cannot to that:-) My 10 cents:-) Guitta

This would be great if Vue were still making new plants, but they seem to have stopped a year of two ago. I own all they plants that Vue has made, and downloaded others that you (Gebe) have made, and they are really nice. But, Xfrog makes lots of highly accurate plants that Vue and nobody else in the Vue Community has made- Tropical, Desert, etc. Besides, I think most people who are not techie types do not know really how to make their own plants. This is why I have suggested the "Poser Solution" I know that Vue does not support "plug-ins", but they do host Poser files, which in essence IS a type of plug-in. Vue doesn't host plug-ins the way MAX or Lightwave does, but it doesn't have to. If you read my post above, I suggested that Xfrog give Vue their plug-in code to read the XFR files- in the same way Vue reads a "native" Poser file, with all attached maps. Vue doesn't have to re-write their program to do this since they have, in fact, already proved how successfully they can host a non-native model format. Vue also has recently added the Japanese Shade model format too as another example. But the Poser 2 Vue concept would be much closer to what hosting an XFR model in Vue would be like. Vue CAN do this! Xfrog would most likely GIVE them the necessary code. Xfrog isn't going to suffer any loss of technical secrets. Has Poser lost any "technical secrets" by having Vue host Poser scenes? I don't think so. I cannot see any big technical or monetary problem for doing this. Not everyone wants to have to go through a bunch of steps and read tutorials just to bring in a nice plant model. Before the Poser 2 Vue "plug-in", bringing in Poser files could be a REAL HASSLE! If you are a real technie and love techie stuff this is great, maybe. But many people I think would just like to get on with the creative process. In the end I think it would help sell more copies of Vue and more Xfrog plant bundles. I cannot see why this would be such a major deal.

I think the cost of xFrog is more of a problem than the importing. The steps that Orio outlined aren't really that bad. If you distill the info down to the steps you need you'll find it's easier than it looks. And after you do it for a tree or two it'll feel almost automatic.

hm!

That's the cost of Xfrog Lite. And the price for a very accurate bundle of tropical or exotic plants is $95.00. If you buy a bundle it comes down to around $80.00 per CD. If you do professional 3D work, spending $200 on 3D models and tools/utilities is not at all unusual. I believe that there are a number of Vue users out there who use it for more than just a hobby. I guess this forum appeals to mostly students and hobby types, but there are a lot more silent professional 3D users lurking out there, I'm sure! Renderosity, RNDA and the others are making $$$ selling models and utilities every day. Think about it.

Again. Has anybody asked Greenworks wether they want to give away their source codes? I assume not! Source code is the holy cow of each software company. I don't know any commercialy acting company who is willing to do this. And if they do, it needs a lot of serious negotiations under which circumstances that could happen. And a contract. Another major problem is, that Vue is supporting different platforms - even when you seem to ignore that. And Greenworks is not (in difference to Curious Labs - Poser, as an original Mac software is running under both platforms). So iff E-on would start supporting any vegetation software, my feeling is, it would be Onyx TreePro, because this is a multi platform software too. To make the long story short, you can wish that E-on and Greenworks are cooperating, nothing more. And maybe you have a look on TreePro! They are more than one step ahead. For example they offer dynamic motion as plug-ins etc etc. And the trees are outstanding (but huge). Ah, one last thing. Does anybody know how many copies of XFrog are sold? Compared to the amount of copies of Poser? My feeling is, that XFrog is a very nishe program. Not a major market leader as Poser.

I actually would like an Xfrog to Vue plugin, but there are some fors and againsts. Yes the Vue vegetation is unique, as Guitta has already mentioned, but E-on seem to have no incentive to create new species of plants. When was the last new plant released by E-on? On the release of Vue 4. I also make my own new species out of the excisting Vue plants with different textures, but it is still limiting if you want accuracy. I use Xfrog, and I can assure you that it is one of the best of it's kind, and used by many top production houses...so in that respect it is ahead of Poser. Xfrog is not that expensive, espeically if you took advantage of the Christmas price reductions. TreePro, I've never used. The thing that put me off that, is that the plants you create can not be distributed...which is no good to me in a freelance enviroment! To be honest, I don't think we would be having this conversation at all if E-on produced and released more Solid Growth vegetation at more regular intervals ;o) Cheers

Well, I think it's a moot point now anyway. His suggestion of using Poser as a go-between sounds good. As for the expense. No I don't find xFrog itself that expensive. It's the add-ons. The program that reduces size and the tree libraries. I mean there are at least 4 or 5 of the libraries I wouldn't be happy unless I had and that's impossible. I can't even manage to upgrade Treepro. It's all these $5 here, 1.99 there, purchases for Poser that are killing me. LOL

That would not be too hard to add plug-ins capabilities to Vue; as it was done for Moray, a low price modeler for Povray. Just my 2 cents I already suggested some monthes ago for render plug-ins ;=) Yves