I'm not one to gripe about this wonderful community, but... is it just me or is it when there is an image of Victoria naked in a temple, the artist gets comments like "wonderful work" or "Great image" even if that image is poorly done. Don't get me wrong there are some of those images that are truly great, but does Vicky have to be naked to get hits, or lots of comments on our imaages?

to get viewings - yes - a little T&A dosn't hurt- to get comments- network- get to know ppl- make friends... personal opinion time -For myself art falls into two major catagories- eye candy and story telling. A single pic or multiple pics separated by gallery distance and time of posting is not very good story telling. Thats one main reason why eye candy get looked at more then the others. You can grip all you want but thats the way it is- just like Vicky in a temple type pic's- because the lighting is so bad in poser that to add roofs makes it very very hard to light, so temples are just walls- no top. Just the way it is!

Also remember that at least 90% of the Poser galleries are just ads for the marketplace and Vic is a hell of a saleswoman.

'does Vicky have to be naked to get hits' Ask yourself this one instead. 'Do women have to be half-naked to sell cars/phones/margarine/whatever?' You see! As the french say 'Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose' (The more things change, the more they stay the same). mac

Hugs and kisses, and mailing list. OMG and Bravo! If you want to see some good art, check out and vote for the artist of the month ... hard to choose which one to vote for this month.

I've always wondered about this odd fact. On womens fashions magazine you see trim fit women usally wearing something sexy and aluring. On mens fashion magazines you see trim fit women usally wearing something sexy and aluring. Guess Vicky is the best bet all around.

The 6th image I posted here got way more hits than any of the others and I was beginning to think I'd outdone myself, when I suddenly took a closer look at the thumbnail image.....and realized that not only are there no clothes visible, but also, taken out of context, her expression is amazingly seductive....! So my head, which had begun to swell, deflated really quickly ;) Lesson learned: if you want hits, do a sexy female and crop carefully when you make that thumbnail image. Sex sells.....

Sex? Yes please! sorry, couldn't help myself...can I have seconds??

Dammit, where's that dead horse render when ya need it... yeah and that stick...

It's not that I griping or beating a dead horse, It's just a random thought I had while working in Poser, after a while this "Naked Vicky In a Temple" thing gets a bit old, I'm a man thats enticed by "sexy" an image that leaves something to the imagination, not just full out naked for the sake of being naked, to me naked has to have a purpose, either the character is bathing or it's a hot night, not just sitting there naked for sh&ts and giggles. Personally I don't have any naked Vickis in my gallery, dressed in skimpy outfits "yes", but not naked and I still get lots of hits, not a lot of comments but lots of hits.

i'm not want to be out in this conversation....there is a point in "to get comments- network- get to know ppl- make friends" seems that every week in the top 20 you see the same people voted....it's not that they're bad, their art is awesome...but i always see the same names over and over..it's like pete sampras playing against a guy with no arms.......these people ARE profesionals,and I admire them..i guess i'll start posting in the newbies gallery...snif......and naked women with swords.......hhhuuumm....got no time to comment that,gotta go play D&D.....

Dammit, where's that dead horse render when ya need it...

It's in my gallery.

I also have a single nude render of Victoria, although ironically it's not the most-viewed image I've posted. No, that privilege is reserved for the Tomb Raider render.

ok....this discussion appeared over and over her.....can we all just get along??

I agree that there's a lot of naked Vicki's around, but that's why you visit the galleries and look for artists who do something different. Chances are if I comment on someone's picture, they are more likely to comment on my work and vice versa. Another thing is to post your WIP in the forum and ask for advice. That's how my noir theme got so many hits. And another idea, to post a link to your gallery when you respond to relevant topics in the forum. Hope this help :) PapaBlueMarlin PS- I will be checking out your gallery

You also have to consider that fact that people aren't allowed to make negative comments on images. If someone leaves a negative comment, the "artist" starts crying in the forum, everyone takes her side, and the commenter is called a dirty troll... or called worse, if he doesn't have any images in his own gallery. So, what happens? People don't leave negative comments and images get heaps of "great work" or "that's so cute" or "wonderful", when, to be honest, the image is barely above mediocre. And, predictably, the positive comments cause the "artist" to make more of the same artwork, since obviously people likes the other stuff so much. Then, since that artwork is getting good comments, other people make similar artwork to get positive comments of their own. Soon, everyone is making basically the same thing- naked Vicky in a setting. Why make something experimental or different if it's not going to get you any positive comments?

When a person is called a "Troll", that person has left not only a negative comment, but also an insulting comment, and yes, 90% of the time that person has nothing to sho in his/her gallery. If you don't like the image speak out, but don't insult the artist, and if you can leave some constructive critisism.

Considering the most viewed image on the whole site is a naked Lara Croft, that should say plenty. Not dissing the image, though, because it's one of the few nudes I like. I wonder if someone does a google search they get hits to this site and that leads to more traffic. JohnRender - why should anyone feel the need to leave a negative comment? I welcome constructive criticism because how else can I learn or improve. However, someone who leaves a comment calling someone sick and implying that they are a pedofile is not constructive or criticism, it's a personal attack that smacks of trolling. One can comment in a fashion that can be viewed as negative by simply how they say it. I recently posted an image in the forum asking for feedback because when I looked at it, something just struck me as being wrong. However, I had looked at it so many times, I couldn't see it. But when I posted it here in the forum, I got plenty of folks to come in a give me suggestions on how I might improve it. I could have run off and cried, but there was no need to. Fellow artists were trying to help me imrpove my work. When I post feedback, if I find miuses, I do look for pluses, so that the artist doesn't get completely discouraged, but realizes that somethings may need improvement.

{why should anyone feel the need to leave a negative comment? } And that is the great unanswered question. Is it human nature to bash something? Do people like the attention they get by leaving negative comments? Who really knows?

I have met people that make themselves feel better by belittling others. Perhaps that is one reason. I think that's a valid reason to have a nasty comment removed. I also can understand why many would feel that it's a troll. Most trolls like to sweep in, drop a bomb and as they're leaving look back to see what havoc they've wrought. For the most part there's nothing useful or constructive in their comments. I can see having comments like that removed.

i dont like trolls........orcs either...hhuuummmm..............but i do like elves!!!!!!!

well this thread is a very intresting topic for discussion. And most of the comments are indeed valid, Yes sex does sell, Comments between individual groups are the norm ect ect. But my personal view on this matter is this: Unless you are selling somthing to the audiance, does it really matter weather they comment or not, yes it would be nice if people showed their genuine appriciation for your work, but at the end of the day i create my images for my own personal pleasure and if others like it then that is great. If your view statistic is hitting the roof then that holds more favour for your work than anything a comment could say. I would like to see more constructive comments in the gallery that would help the artist improve on their skills instead of constant praise. If you praise too much, then how is the artist to know when the work is trully outstanding.......The story of cry wolf comes to my mind when i think of this.

GG :) you said; "If you praise too much, then how is the artist to know when the work is trully outstanding" you know by your viewing numbers. if all you get consistantly is 10, 20, 30 viewings, well, numbers do speak. if you get 7,8 900 viewings that is a good indication your on the right track. My mom was a mathamatician. pretty well know in her technical circles too. She could do things with stats that would blow ppl away- take a part and tell you when to set the warrenty, when it would wear out. :) she allways claimed that numbers tell stories :) and they do, but most ppl can't read the story. each area of 3d art has there own separate 'tell' numbers. the numbers that are the key to the creators success rate. artist is viewing numbers modelers are download numbers merchants are sales numbers see what I mean? "tell numbers" to deny this is self delusion. ofcourse you post images that you like, I do, we all do. but as a general rule for myself- under a hundred in a day or two it is out of here.:) The only way to get better is to be your own worst critic. "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" -- the idea about 'constructive' comments that confuses me is I am not a trained artist- the language used by them (pro artist) is often confusing to me. kind like listening to greek-lol "what did he say?"

Geoegress i agree with 100%. The view numbers are the best indication as to weather your work is good. I did state this in my own post too "If your view statistic is hitting the roof then that holds more favour for your work than anything a comment could say."

Geo and Glowing - I ALMOST agree. Viewing numbers measure how POPULAR your work is, i.e. how much attention it captures. Most pic-makers want their stuff to be seen, it's just that some do not feel like making the kind of stuff that's LIKELY to be seen by very many ;o) Substitute "to be sold" for "to be seen", and you have the pro artist's dilemma. Pro critics are a great help here, as they are able to convince the (paying) audience that something that looks like a used brush wiping rag is sophisticated art, even if lesser beings might still think it looks like a brush wiping rag ;o) Of course, that won't work with experienced picture connaiseurs like all of us on this website ;o) So, I'd say Geo has the best advice for all : IF you're after popularity/viewings, capture them with eye candy or a captivating story. A captivating story told with lots of eye candy would probably be THE way to shoot viewings through the roof. Personally, I love Boris/Frazetta-style images, but I also love drawing old people's faces, because they are an entire story in themselves - just shows I've got lots to learn about worthwhile picture-making ;o)

Wonderful face thip ! I finally have to say something- in my opinion high viewing numbers DO NOT mean an image is good from an artistic point of view, it means that the image either covers a popular subject or the artist is popular so the image becomes popular as well. NOT the same thing as good. Many times in the poser gallery sandwiched between two images with numbers below 30 is an image with 220 viewings and a huge amount of effusive comments and I wonder why sometimes because I can't see always see higher artistic merit in the many times viewed image just popularity. Not a bad thing in its self but dodgy if it becomes too entangled with the concept of what makes 'good' art. I often wish images could be posted WITHOUT the artists name on the thumbnail- that things were all viewed on the apparent merits of the thumbnail. Only on the large image would the artists name be. Might feel less like a popularity contest sometimes then.

I'm with Gini--if the art is what matters, the artist's name need not be shown in the thumbnail at all. What you get otherwise is a 'cult of the personality.' With the ebot alerts letting us know when a favorite artist has posted and a link, it's not like we ever have to miss out on a single post by the artists we like best. So why put artists' names on thumbs? And Thip is correct--artistic merit and sales/views correlate only partially. It's just not as straight-forward as DL numbers for models or sales for merchants. It's a lot easier to show a model or product's worth in a thumbnail than it is to show all the (very subjective) qualities that make up a really good image....Even if you simply show the whole image in the thumb, it will be too small and of too poor quality to accurately show what the finished piece is going to look like--I've clicked on ones that showed decent compositional skills, only to encounter sloppy texturing or lazy posing. Just the kind of image that is crying out for someone to respectfully critique....And just the image that may be overlooked if a popular artist has posted nearby and everybody spends their precious gallery time on that image instead.

this is a totally great conversation- thanks guys- this has been so well said- I am in awe of you all :) well thought out ideas :) merit or popularity- both good observations- but what I am hearing is that by your standards- not the viewers. wasn't it vangogh who only sold one painting his whole life? great dosen't feed the bulldog. Thip- if I had half your talent :).........great image :)

Geo - no talent, just bullheadedness and lots of coffee. Your own gallery shows you've got all the talent you need, you just made a wrong turn when you gave up your pinups and started doing things like your superb "Something Different" ;o) I still wonder if the story-telling pics is an untapped source of interest - maybe R'osity could provide some optionn of quick-linking between story images? Maybe re-use the code used for tutorials? Seems to me that a lot of people like to tell stories with images, and until we all have broadband and time-warp, one-man animations will remain stamp-sized shorts :o( Just an idea.