I recently put a diver's knife and sheath in the freestuff. I made it completely from scratch using: my MAKEOBJ modelling utility; a real (not mesh model) diver's knife and sheath; a ruler. Just now I received this message from Kruse:- "Hi Anthony, please, be so kind and remove your divers-knife out of the free stuff. It's of rather similar kind to our item, which you bought some weeks ago. Please understand our demand for this matter. Regards Matthias + Daniel Kruse As my knife model does not contain any of Kruse's model, am I under any obligation in this matter? And how can I avoid annoying Kruse? I regret that I do not remember buying a diver's knife model a few weeks ago. I do not want to start a war with Kruse. In my diving models I have been using an adapted version of a "thigh dagger" which I downloaded somewhere, but recently I felt a need for a more realistic model, so I made one. I did not know of any diver's knife models in the marketplace. Presumably these two models look like each other because they both look like diver's knives.

I am very sorry if I caused Kruse any annoyance. I am on a slow dialup line and lengthy searches cost me too much phone bill.

If you don't think that you bought their knife, you should ask for proof and a link to the page that sells the knife. Also, since you made your knife from scratch, it is yours to do with as you wish. Similar items abound in free stuff and for sale, and it is quite presumtuous of Mathias and Daniel Kruse to ask you to remove your free item that "competes" with their for sale item. If they claim that you copied their product, then a third party should examine the models and make that determination. You have made a lot of great free items, and you are always careful and respectful of the copyrights of others.

I have a similar dillemma, while I am not a great figure maker I have been trying my hand ( I have also not shown this in too many places cause I am not satifyed with it) I was making a werewolf ( I know there are tonnes) but wasn;t too sure about the bone structure so I bought sirux's (sic) werewolf for comparison and ended up using front and side renders of the werewolf to redo the body, kinda tracing it as I went in Max. I then not liking the head he used, brought the poser wolf in an 'traced' around that...I have serious doubts about releasing it cause I used his a reference...so I will not. But it in no ways uses any of his mesh bones what not ( I have also not been in contact with him about this cause I have decided not too release it) I know this is a long post and in no way gives you suggestions to and end result, but I thought that I would share. I say that if you made it your self, from images that you found on line or reference photo's and not on the knife that you aledgidly(sic) bought then by all means give it away...tell him to give you a wire mesh comparision of his/hers/theirs, if he is unsure.

Anthony - I know you've been creating diving related items for a few years, so I think it's a matter of coincidental timing. I asked ClintH to look into it as he can trace the purchase records. He can also better check Kruse's knife vs. yours. The file sizes are very different, and the handles look different, but I can't speak authoritatively as I don't have Kruse's knife. It's quite possible for 2 different people to have similar ideas and release them around the same time. It's a matter of looking at the whole situation and going from there. Both Kruse and Anthony have a history of creating diving items, so it's not surprising that they both have diving knives. If I suddenly put out a diving knife, it might be suspicious because it's very different from what I usually make and it's soon after Anthony and Kruse's knives came out. Cheers!

first let us say we are very sad about your reaction here in forum! There was no need to discuss it in public and also publishing our e-mail! We just asked for a response and our demand was more a request between friends. Anthony, how long do we know from each other? No chance for discuss it first by e-mail?

Dear Anthony, here is our statemnet:
First, and very very sorry, you are right! You didn't bougth our knife, it was the weightbelt and the mask. So sorry again, but, forgive us, another point for discussing this matter just between us!
Second, we don't want to start any arguments, if you wish to keep your item in freestuff, keep it! We didn't say that you made any illegal copies or violated the policy.

Anthony, now after calming dawn, we try to explain it again. You are also a certifed diver and you also know the huge assortment of divers-knifes (long, small, thick, all coloured), but your knife is nearly of the same kind than our item (see picture). Perhaps we are of different opinion, but we check the marketplace first, before we are going to upload a free item. Just to respect the merchants work and their profits. We don't demand on you to have the same opinion. For heaven's sake, no! We just dared to asked you for this favour, because you have so much uw-items here in freestuff and changing or removing one item is not a big deal for you.

Okay, everybody? Hope we cleared this 'argument' here in public. Anthony, you are the same old fellow like two days before and a simple knife might not kill any friendhips...

Kindest regrads to you all

Daniel + Matthias

with all due respect ....Anthony has every right to place his model knife in the free stuff section even if kruse's model knife looks similar and costs money ..... but kruse you said: "we check the marketplace first, before we are going to upload a free item" i guess thats a good rule of thumb and maybe thats good advice for anthony to look into the next time but this is a big community were there are profit drivin people here and there are people who just wish to share with everyone by giving it away for free..........but with all due respect ot you something like as simply as a knife or ladders or eye ball textures and what not are not worth selling and should be givin for free ...in my opinion....if a merchant has an item for sale and sees an item that closely resembles but not in any way was copied then that merchant has a few options that he or she should consider a) give that item for free b) offer that item for alot less c) offer that item free with a purchase there are a ton of new models to make and sell....and no one should rely on an item to be sold forever...eventually an item becomes obsolete in the market place when practically the same model is offered for free.....do what you suggested to anthony: "the huge assortment of divers-knifes (long, small, thick, all coloured) why not make them yourself and sell them as a bundle...why give anthony any ideas that you can profit from ? :-)

oh nnuu,
we start to feel guilty because we asked Anthony for a favour. You are right in a), b) and c) and there is no need to instruct or teach us.

Please have a closer look at our statements:
a) we did not say, Anthony is violating the policy
b) we did not say, he must remove this item at any price
c) we did not say, Anthony is an unethical 3D-artist
d) Our basic thought, Anthony bought our knife and made
an update/upgrade wasn't true.

Again:
We(!!!) are looking in in the marketplace first (also in future). This is our own and private opinion. Tell it a special and unwelcome trait. We don't demand on everybody must do it. We don't say anybody must do it! And if everybody is of opposite opinion it doesn't matter for us, we are holding tight to our opinion.

"..why not make them yourself and sell them as a bundle...why give anthony any ideas that you can profit from ? :-)..."

Good point! It takes a long time to create qualified items for the marketplace. Making any bundles is nearly impossible for us, because we are short in time. There are hard qualitychecks before the item is going to be published. Now, and perhaps ;-) you understand, why we dared to ask (just ask, not in public, not with the help of admins, not as demand....) Anthony for this favour, because we know he is a great 3D-artist. He teached us well in 3D-development at the beginning (thank's again Anthony) and is publishing attractive (similar)items for free......

Dear friends, let us close this case/subject please.
We are just discussing opinions and we like to spend our time in creating new items than dicussing.....

Yours

Daniel + Matthias

Perhaps my knife and Kruse's knife (real, not mesh file) have blades that were made at the same factory but were bought by different diving gear shops and put in different handles. I am extremely sorry to have caused trouble by this inadvertent coincidence. I remember that the first thing that I did was to measure my real knife's blade and in MAKEOBJ I made a 6-face rectangular block the same width and height and thickness as my knife's blade, and pulled and cut it about in MAKEOBJ until it was like my knife's blade. I made the blade sharp by my MAKEOBJ's utility "unweld selected from unselected faces". I do not use nurbs: as someone wrote, "nurbs make 1e99999999999 polygons".

Yesterday I watched some underwater archaeologists on TV here in UK, and one of them used a diver's knife whose blade was the same shape as the knife blade under dispute here!

"...we check the marketplace first, before we are going to upload a free item. Just to respect the merchants work and their profits." Am I the only one bothered by this comment? Rather than raising the quality of the items being sold in the marketplace, we expect the people posting freestuff to limit the selection and quality so as to not interfere with merchants profits?