One of the shots from my first official photography shoot.... overall I'm very pleased with the results....This child would not sit. So we let her do what she wanted, and I just followed her around, shooting when I could. I spent the better part of yesterday doing the scanning. Basically these images in my gallery are low res scans. We shot 108 images of which 64 were usable shots..... one roll of Tri-X pan and 2 rolls of Portra 400NC. I've burned a cd with low res images for her mom and printed up contact sheets for her to choose from. I did not have prints made just processing. I'm wondering if I should have had 3x5's made as proofs? In any case I thought that the cd with 640x480 scans would serve the purpose just as well.

Wouldn't sit still? See, I told you to take a roll of duct tape with you, but do you listen to me? Nooooo. :) These came out really nice, 'chelle. I like this one and especially the color one with the flower (Meet Allie II). Hmmm. Dunno about the scans. Since you know the person, it's cool; but in the future I wonder how that will work. Not meaning the quality or anything, but what the person does with them. Are they likely to be happy with their nice CD full of viewable pics for free and get no prints? Will they only buy a couple prints and happily keep their CD with all images? Will they buy all the prints they like regardless? 640x480, with a program like Genuine Fractals or XFiles, can easily be increased to print 3x5's, 4x6's, 5x7' and possibly 8x10's with the new frontier digital projecting processors. They project the digital image, much like a standard enlarger does a negative, onto standard photo paper. Of course, you could watermark all the images with your name. But I'm just an amateur, any of the Pros wanna chime in here? -=>Donald

my lil word can just be... that she shines so alive from the pic you made. It tells all about childhhod enthousiasm and mess :) amazing :)

this is truely a great shot. I think that when shooting pictures of a child, you should just let them be a child. yes chasing them around trying to get in the right spot to take the shot is a hassle, but you could never "pose" a kid ang get this expression.....great work! Jack

Thanks to all who have commented on these, both here and in the gallery... @Donald...yes, I thought of how easy it would be to have someone keep the disc and purchase nothing....that's why this is such a learning experience for me.... But I hate to give away prints too..... Not sure how pro's go about this....I really would love to hear from people who have do this sort of stuff myself.....

With prints what is to stop someone from scanning on a flatbed? And if they know about and understand these programs of Genuine Fractals, etc., why do they need a photographer in the first place.....? Hmmm.....I don't know.... I really do need advice about that.

Michele, you might consider offering people the choice of a few photos only and offer one completely framed, so they can use the other ones as replacements. You're not going to give them any originals are you ? Very beautiful work, but I wouldn't have expected anything else from you ;) Great job!

The negatives are mine..... I would never consider giving those to anyone. What I did in this case was, (and this was a family member) so I may not want to always do this: 1. Process negs 2. scan negs at low resolution 3. print up low resolution contact sheets (they look like shit!) 4. resized and saved tiff files as jpgs @ a resolution of 640x480 with a dpi of 72 5. burned a cd with the jpgs for her to help in choosing as well as for her to do what she wants with. I'm actually hoping that if she emails these to people, they may ask her for prints! (now I'll repeat, she is a family member) so this may be fine for her....probably not a good idea for strangers? @Rork..... I do like your idea of a package with one matted and framed image.... What I'm curious about is how the pros do it..... with wedding photographers, they usually give you a whole album of proofs..... of course it cost you upwards of $1000 just for the day of shooting and the proofs.... and then an arm and a leg for enlargements and the actual album.....

I think doing low resolution stuff is the answer. That way, they get a representation of the image, but not so good that they could make their own prints from the jpegs. Then make sure you let them know that the quality is very low, is only for them to decide and that the quality of the "real" images is much much higher. I think that's what the brother of one of the guys who works here at the Times does. He's a wedding photographer. I think he also watermarks his images. -=>Donald

looked like it turned out to be quite a wonderful shoot- from the thumbs that i saw in the gallery & this one... (have yet to leave comments) great job 'chelle! & you bring up some interesting inquiries on digital proofs ...just following along to see how it's done... :]

Well, some very average photographers over here (good pros, but nothing really special) indeed charge more than $1000 for a day shooting, which is shooting at a park or some special location for 30 minutes to an hour, shooting at the ceremonie and reception/dinner, but not at any party afterwards. And for a normal album they charge at least $1500. Or some charge 750 for the shooting, but more for the album. I'd love to try wedding photography some day for a cheaper price (so one small add would mean a lot of response, cause many can't afford those ammounts), BUT I have my doubts about this 'live action shooting'. Not sure if I can deliver a constant quality to give people a series of quality shoots for all the events. But most of all, I'm kind of worried about where to get good quality prints. Most really good labs are far away from here & I do need to be sure that my work will be treated carefully. Michele, I had this idea, but haven't really don't it yet. Maybe you like to try it as well :) The idea is to try out wedding photography at two or more weddings, as practice. I'd place an add for a free shoot, except I'd charge them the cost of the material I would use - but cause it's for practice (serious, but still with a risc) in return for the cheap costs they would have to take the risc of ending up with completely failed shots. I just don't know what to do with the presentation. Perhaps I could offer them to print it again for what it'll cost me and buy an album, etc. You know, with two tries you should be able to tell what you have to do or not do during a day like that. Shouldn't be too hard to get a lot of experience with two days of shooting, don't you think ? Any ideas ?

1000 dollars for a single day???? Okay... pity I will never become not even average photographer because thatw ould be indeed a great deal (I could leave job at university ;)

Yea ... wedding photographers rack it in once they get well known a good references. But with that comes a HUGE amount of pressure. For many,it's there biggest day. No do-overs. "Oh sorry...I missed the kiss" or "oppps...didn't get the cutting of the cake" just won't cut it. You know who else makes a lot, Senior Portrait photographers. The packages that they are selling today for High School seniors start at $500 and go up from there. Sheeeesh! -=>Donald

Yeah....I don't think wedding photography is worth the aggravation, personally.... as Donald said the pressure! Is it really that much for senior portraits?! Holy shit it has been a long time.........

I am always more impressed. Now though I know why my friend in Puglia (southern Italian region) can allow herself the house she's got ;)

I suspect like everything else there is a local market that establishes the prices. We have many weddings here in Chicago on the grounds of (rented out of course) mansions and public gardens. Sometimes the photographer brings in two or three assistants to handle the lights and change film. Maybe someone to run the video equipment. Adjust the clothing and makup. The male photographers generally wear tux'es. Up in Wisconsin things are less formal, but still at least one assistant. And the photographer is expected to stay until the last drunk polkas home. [So basically, these photographers are earning their livlihood during a rather intense day-long session. They have to be pretty ruthless in extracting more money. Ever price frames from a wedding photographer?! The real profit is in the frames!] One thinks there should be a market for "Dirt Cheap Weddings." Maybe just a few pics after the ceremony. [I used to do this to earn money while in school. No one shot me for forgetting to load the camera, but it came close.] But there is virtue in taking hundreds of shots of all the relatives and friends. Reprints are also profitable. What about distributing the proofs on DVD for viewing on TV? I'd think you could also lession the stress by also making a few digital shots.

my friend actually do bothe analogic and digitalw hen she shoots for marriages. but yeah, she's got one and sometimes two assistents (one for carrying those... reflecting panels to make the light better.. hey always tour with a small van to put all stuff in!!!!!!!!)It's a life always in frenzy.. and very stressful she says. But she also adore to live on the thing she loves the most, so she can handle it well (dunno her assistents )

Video shoot, assistents, make up ? No way! Photographers just come alone and never ever stay at parties during the evening. And what pressure ? That more like 'beginners anxiety', cause you (me too ;) are afraid that you'll miss some big moment. BUT in reality, if you wouldn't be ready, you just open your mouth and everything will be on hold till you are ready with your film. That always happened once or twice to every marriage I been to :) But my idea is that you could be a lot cheaper during the first few tries and explain people that. A lot of people can't afford any half-decent photographer at all, so they'd be more than happy to take a chance with you. Let's face it guys, most marriages out there are all the same, so the only pressure is just cause you haven't tried it before. Like with....uhmmm....well... lots of other things ;)

eheh ;) yep, definitely marriages are all the same (unless that's YOUR own marriage. i guess, because yet I ahven't tried any ;)).. but to hear it before attending a new one this saturday, after taken another two week ago... it makes me scared at the acknowledge I could get again a bit bored ;)

I've been to marriages that have entourages just for the photographer.....yes! My sister's wedding OTOH had just one person....every one is different I guess. @Rork, yes you are probably right :~)....but weddings are important to people, and I regret very much my decision to have a family friend take photos instead of spending $2000 for a "real" photographer. The photos I took during the party came out better than the friends I had "hired". I'm sure if I were asked I would probably jump at the chance to shoot a wedding....but the anxiety would kill me!

don't get anxious Michelle... I would definitely let you to be my marriage photographer with totally confidence you would do a fabulous job. You have such a sensitivity to make even THINGS look beautiful and cousy... and lovely and warm.. let alone to portray people's LOVE!!!!!! that is your natural talent :) if it's gonna happen.. don't e scared at all :)

Okay, let me rephrase it then ;) I mean that there are a lot of people who have a friend or family member take some photos, just cause they can't afford the 2000 buckazoids. So you could always go along as a 'back up photographer' and tell them that if it does work out well, they can get prints as a bonus. Know what I mean ? Like you say, even if you are free, people still will be dissapointed if you miss a certain moment, so you could sort of 'abuse' the wedding for free practice ;) Just whatever it takes to feel you comfortable - no pressure. Btw, wedding photography must be great fun, cause you can walk anywhere and ask anything you like and nobody will mind. Unlike street photography where 9 out of 10 times people are offended or rude ;)

But I'm just thinking 'out loud' here.....just wondering myself how you could get into this without too much trouble. Although if you're never prepared to take a risc, you won't get anywhere. You can't just first become a top photographer and then accept your first offer. ;)

Wonderful excellent work Michelle. But I knew they would be great. Don't consider myself a pro, but I do work as an assistant for one and do work on the side for myself. So here goes. The only stopping people from scanning or printing themselves is their concsious. My boss and I still use the proof system for clients. One it gives them something visible to hold and look at, as well as family and friends who might not have a pc yet. It also usually leads to some extra cash as most will buy all the proofs if they are reasonably priced, at 3 bucks a pop you can make some quick change since sitting fees should have covered your costs for it already. For the cd, I use them as an extra. My boss, not yet, she feels rural areas aren't ready for it. She's a bit stone aged. Just burned 10 cd's of a wedding I did last month for archiving and to correct for overexposure. Cause sometimes equipment fails and you don't know it did. I always include a cd for the couple, cost of course included in my fee. Would love to see a wedding done by you.. Would be some sweet shots. Weddings are a blast to do. And the anxiety is a good thing, it means you care about doing it right. If you can get into seniors, and get your name out there. Scads of money to be made. If you're good, and you are, you can make more at that than you can at weddings. We average between $300-$1000 after costs. And that's in rural Iowa. I know some photogs are charging $250-$500 just for their sitting fee. I say go for it Michelle..

What's this seniors thing ? I've never heard of it before over here....anyone wanna explain ? ;)

A Senior is a 4th year high school student who will be graduating and hopefully going on to bigger and better things like college. They have portraits done for the high school yearbook/memories book as well as for the family and I guess they spend lots of money these days for these portraits....

"Seniors," oh, ya. Graduation pictures. Now I understand. [Back in the olden-days these were pretty much just mug shots, but expensive even then. Ten minutes of a photographer's time, with a well-tuned fixed lighting system; a couple $100 in prints. REALLY expensive frames! Only trick was to use a very old, preferably mehogany, view camera, with a black hood and plunger. Looks serious!] Now, I've seen these get quite creative; outdoor settings, trying to show more of the personality of the customer, maybe group shots with friends or pets. And parents still want the conservative mug shot also! Similar to 'chelle's children pics, except with bigger children! [I DO NOT think Michelle would be happy running the portrait kiosk in the shopping mall. But something like this could be a lot of fun.]

I DO NOT think Michelle would be happy running the portrait kiosk in the shopping mall. Me thinks you would be right my dear.....that thought makes me want to barf.... I do however think it would be great fun doing casual/unusual portraits and fine art....have camera will travel sorta thing. That idea has been in the back of my mind for a while. I went to the book store this morning and bought some books relevant to the business aspects.... and for now I'll just keep dreaming. @diggeriddo....thank you so very much for the answer to the proofs/cd question. I really appreciate hearing from someone on the inside.

I'm a bit late catching this thread. In fact, I haven't been 'forum-ing' in quite a while. Too much pressure from my Poser project. Anyway, after the 5th Photoshop crash tonight, I decided to take a break. First, excellent shot, michelle. You can't 'pose' kids. You can only let them be kids and shoot around whatever they're doing. The important thing is not to hassle them and not to let them get bored. When I was an assistant I worked with a lot photoraphers shooting kids for ads, editorial, etc. The trick is to get them doing something fun in the right spot (ie. where the lights are) and just bang off film. (Give them an ice-cream at the end - they're really cute when they make a mess of themselves. LOL. Weddings, on the other hand..... Hmmmm... Well, I HATE doing weddings. When I was working in a camera store, I did a lot of weddings on the side. I've done catholic, protestant, sikh, and registry office ones. And since I became a professional photographer, I only do them for friends (under pressure). I've been flown to New York and to Greece (from italy), to do friends' weddings. Because it seems that some people (the ones I know anyway), don't want formal wedding pictures. Every wedding I've done in the last 10 years or so, they've all asked for 'reportage', as opposed to 'formal' shots. So, hey.... that suits me just fine. But what I usually end up doing is a CMA job (cover my ass - rule #1 of professional photography), and do it both ways. Anyway, maybe there's a market for more informal weddings. mac PS $1000 a day ain't so much when you get down to it. Professional fees always sound a lot, until you're the one who's working for the fee. F'rinstance, if you only do 1 wedding a week, that breaks down to $200 per working day - less expenses. Oh, and the landlord wants the rent for the studio... and the lease payment on your Hassleblad is due... and the payments on the BMW you bought because you couldn't turn up at weddings in your old Ford truck..... LOL.