The difference and reasoning for licensing in regards to software (and 3d items are software) is due to "tangible" and "intangible". If you sell Stephen King's book it is obvious that you are not keeping the book the book is in hand. But if you give away or sell poser or another software item (including Poser or other software add-on products). It does not mean that you were unable to keep a copy, either on your computer or backed up on disc. The software is "code" and therefore not "in hand".

Fyrene, I never said it was Cruelty or anyone particfular getting harrassed, as a matter of fact, I don't recall saying anyone has been harrassed. My problem is I'm looking at this like the RIAA situation, so of course my assumption is that it will eventually end up being like the RIAA situation, So what I am merely saying by stating that I feel that the Recievers of these gifts shouldn't be Harrassed, Ridiculed or Punished, I'm saying that I would hate to see it come to that sort of thing. I'm not a merchant, so I can't say "I know how you operate" so I suppose I shouldn't jump to conclusions on how things are going to go. Personally, Out of all the merchants that have posted here, I believe all of you to be extremely level headed and fair people. I personally, can't see why you would let people pirate or pass it down, but I guess that shows your good side by letting the people with less fortune experience the pleasure of using your product. I wish nothing but the best for you fine people. Ketamine

One point that does stand: If the merchant provides an installer program, they can certainly include a complete and seperate licence. As the software provided by Renderosity is an installer executable, the Renderosity licence would apply to that installer executable and not the content the installer provides. In other words, you would not be able to transfer the licence to the installer program, which is what the Renderosity licence would cover. On the other hand, the installer itself could present a completely seperate licence for the content which the consumer would have to click 'I agree' to in order to continue the installation of the software. Interestingly, if this agreement provided certain rights including the licence to the content, a Renderosity tester testing the product would be required to delete the installer but, by terms of the second licence for the content itself, not the content.

Just an FYI, All Products sold at PoserPros ARE Transferable. All products sold use the exact same license, with no deviations to it, as part of our standard of sales and development, and have from the start. This is the license. The area bolded is our transfer policy. I noticed not long ago some discussions on whether stores have refund policies, warrenties, etc. So if you care to read all the way down, you will see we've got you covered there too. =========================================================== -------------------------------------------------------- PoserPros Boutique(tm) - End User License Agreement -------------------------------------------------------- "You" means the person or company who is being licensed to use the Software or Documentation purchased from the PoserPros Boutique(tm). "Software" refers to the contents contained with this license file downloaded from the PoserPros Boutique(tm). and related support files. By installing, copying, or otherwise using the Software, you agree to be bound by the terms of the following End User License Agreement. This End User License Agreement is a legal agreement between you (either an individual or a single entity) and PoserPros Boutique(tm). This agreement hereby grants you a nonexclusive license to use the Software or Documentation by one person or one entity, so long as no more than one person at a time uses the Software at a time. The Software may be installed on more than one computer, such as on both a workstation and a laptop, or on a network drive, so long as the licensed user is the one who uses this computer at least 80% of the time and there is no chance of the software being used by more than one person simultaneously. You may copy the Software for back-up and archival purposes, provided that the original and each copy are kept in your possession. You may not modify or adapt the software or merge it into another program other than for personal use. You may not sublicense, rent, lease, or lend any portion of the software or documentation to another person or entity. You do acquire the copyright to any works created using this software, however, if the original artist/vendor can prove that any of the original material can be extracted from your derivative work, the original artist/vendor can demand that all copies of both the original work, and the derivative work be deleted. For example, you may not make an image of a texture map applied to a flat plane, so that the original texture map can be removed from the image. You may not make any MetaStream animation files with the enclosed materials, until this format can protect the original materials from being obtained. You may sell, rent, or place on the Internet any 2 dimensional images or animations rendered with this software. You may also sell, rent, or place on the internet, poses, textures, or morph targets that work with this software, provided that none of the original content can be extracted from this derivative work by any means. The original artist/vendor retains all copyrights to the enclosed materials, and is protected by copyright laws and international copyright treaties, as well as other intellectual property laws and treaties. This software product is licensed to you, not sold. By purchasing licensed rights to this software, you are only purchasing the right to use the contents. You may not redistribute this software, in whole or in part, nor may you store it any place on the internet, or on a network where it may be accessed by a third party. You may transfer all your rights to use this software and documentation to another person, or legal entity, provided you transfer this agreement, the software and documentation, including all copies, updates, and prior versions to such person or entity, and that you retain no copies, including those stored on your computer, provided written notice is given to PoserPros Boutique(tm), and the original copyright holder of the Software. LIMITED WARRANTY We warrant that for a period of 30 of days after delivery of this copy of the Software to you: The Software provided to you will perform in substantial accordance with the Documentation. To the extent permitted by applicable law, the foregoing limited warranty is in lieu of all other warranties or conditions, express or implied, and we disclaim any and all implied warranties or conditions, including any implied warranty of title, non-infringement, merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose, regardless of whether we know or had reason to know of your particular needs. No employee, agent, dealer or distributor of ours is authorized to modify this limited warranty, nor to make any additional warranties. Some states do not allow the limitation or exclusion of liability for incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation may not apply to you. LIMITED REMEDY Our entire liability and your exclusive remedy for breach of the foregoing warranty shall be, at our option, to either: Return the price you paid, or repair or replace the Software or media that does not meet the foregoing warranty if it is returned to us with a copy of your receipt. In no event will we be liable to you for any damages, including any lost profits, lost savings, or other incidental or consequential damages arising from the use or the inability to use the software (even if we or an authorized dealer or distributor has been advised of the possibility of these damages), or for any claim by any other party. Some states do not allow the limitation or exclusion of liability for incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation may not apply to you. TERM AND TERMINATION This license agreement takes effect upon your use of the software and remains effective until terminated. You may terminate it at any time by destroying all copies of the Software and Documentation in your possession. It will also automatically terminate if you fail to comply with any term or condition of this license agreement. You agree on termination of this license to destroy all copies of the Software and Documentation in your possession. GENERAL PROVISIONS 1. This written license agreement is the exclusive agreement between you and us concerning the Software and Documentation and supersedes any prior purchase order, communication, advertising or representation concerning the Software. 2. This license agreement may be modified only by a signed license modification made by you and us. 3. In the event of litigation between you and us concerning the Software or Documentation, the prevailing party in the litigation will be entitled to recover attorney fees and expenses from the other party. Mehndi Studios(tm), PoserPros(tm), and PoserPros Boutique(tm) are trademarks of Mehndi Studios(tm). All brand and product names marketed through PoserPros Boutique(tm) are trademarks of their respective trademark holders. This agreement is governed by the laws of the State of Tennessee, in the United States of America.

Keeping all this in mind. I believe I am going to make a merchant-definable licence on XFX3d.com with checkboxes or radio buttons for different clause-options.

Hi, all. I'm afraid I am no longer permitted to participate in this thread due to the fact I'm in disagreement with someone.

Although I will quickly note that in the phrase: the terms of the Renderosity license are the terms Renderosity requires merchants to use with their products, and as such, no other license can be included or over-ride the Renderosity license. The portion as such, no other license can be included or over-ride the Renderosity license does not follow as a logical result of the terms of the Renderosity license are the terms Renderosity requires merchants to use with their products Again, I beg all of your pardons for disagreeing, as stating disagreement is apparently now a TOS violation from what I can tell.

The problem with saying the Installer licence comes after the download licence is that R'osity don't give refunds, except case-by-case, so there's no real choice by the time you've paid and downloaded. Usually if you refuse to agree at the licence screen you 're told to return the package for a refund. The best solution seems to be offering a more liberal replacement licence and allowing the user to choose which to accept, or to say in big letters in the Readme that you guarantee you are not going to enforce certain rights granted to you (the creator) by the licence.

Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! ::baps you all with a giant panda plushie::

cough, cough

I cannot believe how incredibly, ludicrously, complicated you have all made this for yourselves.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Renderosity standard licsense as is. It was created to protect both customer and merchant, and it is a good general base, that everyone can agree to. Merchants can always grant more rights in addition to those stipulated in the licsense. We may not take more away. That was what precipitated the creation of this liscense to begin with.

In order to sell our products at the RMP, we must agree to grant these basic rights to customers purchasing our products (protecting you). In order to purchase these products; you must agree to the licsense before you are even allowed to make the purchase; you must agree to abide by the terms provided in that licsense (protecting us).

Renderosity CANNOT preclude the merchant from granting MORE rights to the consumer. Nor, I suspect, would they consider it worth their time to do so.

Here is the simplest solution to this issue:

If you want to use a product in a manner beyond what is stated in the standard licsense agreement; ask the creator of the product.

K.I.S.S. >^_~

No; it's simply unnecessary. The RMP products are not "work for hire", they are brokered. Even the exclusive products are brokered. Renderosity does not own these products, and therefore, cannot restrict their useage beyond the desires of the copyright holder.

Hi Illusions and Momcat :) The Rosity merchants DO modify the license and add onto it, and append to it, etc all the time. It does happen :) There are lots of cases even here in the forums where people bought things, then found secondary terms in the documentation for example that prohibited commercial usage of the product without this, that, or the other stipulation that is not covered in the Rosity main license. Those are the cases that stand out in my mind the most. I'd have to hunt like the dickens to find the old threads, and I might not be able to do so even if they were in C&D, but I do know that licenses have been altered by merchants here. The reason we chose to REALLY enforce that merchants on PoserPros all use the same license is in response to the hue and outcry we saw during those times here, were people seemed to indicate that bait and switch tactics were at play if you buy thinking it is one license, then find there are additional stipulations hidden in the readme file, or other locations. Just makes life simpler for all to know up front what a customer can and can't do.

I know which threads you are talking about. My understanding now, is that Renderosity does not currently permit any other licsense other than thier own to be included in the zip. That does not mean that they (the merchant) cannot give additional rights to the consumer on an individual basis. In any case, if a customer has any questions about use of a product beyond what is stated in the licsense, they should ask the creator of the product.

Yep, I'd totally agree. As owner of the copyright on a product, it is within my power I should think to give additional freedoms to someone, or to release them from the obligations of a certain license, etc. But then that is just my personal way of thinking I guess.

'My understanding now, is that Renderosity does not currently permit any other licsense other than thier own to be included in the zip.' is there a place where we can have that confirmed? because if it is so, then the whole 'this was ripped off from my work, sold in the marketplace here, but the marketplace won't refund my money because they say the merchants haveto' into a new light. if they insist that only renderosity's licence can be used for a product in their marketplace, this means they are taking responsilbliy for the product more than the merchant is..

There is something that can assure that, Illusions. Contact the creator before you make the purchase and ask them and ask them.

Sorry, I missed the last sentence of your post. That is highly unlikely if the creator has given permission in writing. They can get the order, but if they have proof that the creator gave them permission, then the order is moot.

I do have access to a properly qualified authority on software copyright laws, but only for UK law. If there's a UK specific question someone would like to ask then I can try to get it answered. What I don't know is which country's laws would be applied if, for example, the vendor is based in the UK but the broker is based in the US, if the license itself didn't explicitly state which country or state laws would be applied. Maybe I should ask that first. Yup, it's complicated!