Can you believe that?? Welp, this has encouraged me to post everything that has traspired till now and you are welcomed to read it and get the truth for once!! Warn you though, it is long, but very entertaining!! Jack

Sheesh - Renderotica has/had NOTHING to do with Poser Forum (seems to be it's antithesis, given what Willow has said in the past...)... Two questions about the locked thread in C&D: 1) From what I've heard, the main reason Willow moved over to another server was because EdgeNet was trying to claim ownership for all contest entries in the "Pose This!" competition. Is this true, a(nother) misunderstanding, or what? 2) I thought the main reason for the (3 hour) shut-down of Willow's forum was because they feared a lawsuit being filed - one that (so far, to my knowledge) has never been filed, but is still sitting there awaiting the "command." Wouldn't this mean that they DID achieve their primary objective (by getting the suit held back), even if a secondary objective - closing this forum (I think?!?) was not attained? It seems the primary problem here is that Willow believed Roy/Fur GAVE her the PoserForum.com name and members databse, when he only gave her the right to USE them (I wonder if there were any written contracts about THAT?)... That and she seems to have a bit of an ego thing... ;-)

Hey CB, Because you asked and brought up some very good questions, I will do my best in which to answer them for you. I WARN YOU this does contain a part of a log that was sent to me in confidence for my attorney. Please understand that I am only posting a part of this in answer to your question so you can see the type of Manipulation of the Community was transpiring, as I said in my post, I can back all of my claims up with logs.... In answer to your first Question: No, the reason for the move DID NOT have anything to do with the "Pose This!" contest, which some would lead you to believe, but INFACT, was because Willow was interested in obtaining all of the advertising space on the site, in order to solicite an "online store" that she had had built. It was such a secret undertaking that VERY FEW people knew about and got to see as it was being built (one of our ADMIN was able to see it prior to coming to Renderosity). Later, for some reason the project was scrapped, except for one thing... PFO Coffee mugs and Mousepads(or something along that line). Dissatisfied that she would have to split the profits with EdgeNet, Willow then had the site that she is currently on built, then "under the cover of night" moved her staff and the Community (that she wanted) to the new location. In answer to your second question: I am posting a transcript from their IRC chat to show you the BEHIND THE SCENES reason for the closure of the PFO for 3 hours. I ommitted one of the names to keep from one of the members over there being embarrassed or harrassed for the idea that Willow and Grey choose to act upon, since it is Willow and Grey that I am speaking of.... MIND YOU this is edited, however, if needed I can provide a COMPLETE UNEDITED VERSION of this CHAT if needed... ---Transcript begins here--- > :- atlanta.ga.us.galaxynet.org Message of the Day - > :- 5/10/1999 8:09 > :- Welcome to GalaxyNet > :- > :- The rules on this server are few and simple. > :- > :- * No clonebots,flooding > :- * If your intentionto come here to create problems > :- leave. Abuse will not be tolorated. > :- * Hostile botsbe k lined > :- * Have fun! > :- > :- Help can usually be obtained on #outerlimits where most of the > :- operators can be found. > :- > :- If you have a problem please log the incident. Be sure to do a/whois > :- the person and mail it to root@telluric.com. We will do what we. > :- > :- BOTS: Non-hostile bots are welcome but in limited quantities.your > :- bot is hostile expect it to be banned. > :- > :- Registration of a channel does not imply approval of content. > :- are responsible for their own actions. > :- > :- This server is sponsored by EZWEB Internet Services > :- > :- For commercial web pages see http://www.ezweb.net > :- > :- We do not offer shell accounts. > :End of /MOTD command. > :on 1 ca 2(2) ft 10(10) tr *** Topic of #3D_ErrorCode50 Poser and Related 3D Computer Graphics --SNIP SNIP, BLAH BLAH BLAH, TAKE YOU RIGHT TO THE GOOD PART-- >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ Back... and with a small idea.. >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ Willow, Grey, you both say that a trial the public wouldn't be beneficial. I disagree, and here's how (cont'd) >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ Send an email to everyone on the list,the temporary closure of the PFO due to legal issues. Then closeForum for a couple of days. >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ After the first day or so, take a lookJack's site, and watch the public response. >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ Whatever you do, Do NOT say exactly whatlegal issues are. >Willow3d/#3D_ErrorCode50/ how do you think that would play? >IanLM/#3D_ErrorCode50/omitted, I already did >IanLM/#3D_ErrorCode50/ everyone here knows what they are >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ I mean in the mail list. >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ What would happen, I think is thatwill deduce the obvious, Jack will have to publically come out andsomething due to pressure, and people will get pissed that it's comethis. >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ And it will then be in his lap as toaction to take next. Look like the bad guy? Or recant? >Willow3d/#3D_ErrorCode50/ oh? >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ This is all hypothetical, tho. Feel freediscuss. >omitted/#3D_ErrorCode50/ --snipped another name here--Anyway, basically what itis that there would be a trial of the public's opinion, and you wouldn'thave to say a word about it. Theoretically. --End of Demonstration...but there was more -- That was recorded on the 10th.... then as you know, on the 16th Grey sent e-mail out to everyone and the closure of the site for 3 hours occured... to which you all know the outcome of... So you can see the "true nature" of the closure of the PFO for that short time, did it help to stave off the lawsuit? Nope, because something else they didn't want you to know is that I told them: "If the actions against Renderosity, My Company (Dark Soul Images) and myself (Jack D. Kammerer) continue, then I will have NO CHOICE but file a Liable Suit against your persons (Willow Danaan, Ian Grey)on the basis of Defamation of Character and Slander (note: not "Trademark" BS that they told some people). I have already consulted and attained a lawyer in this regard. I ask that you, please, cease the matters in which this e-mail pertains.." -Snip- (blah blah blah) It was, as I said, never put into serious motion, other than have my lawyer WARN them if they continued there would be legal ramifications as a result of it. But they would have you all believe otherwise. Anyway, hope that answers your questions. Jack

Just so that everyone knows, do not think that I am calling any of you "UP IN ARMS" that has been DONE TO DEATH to all of you and the rest of the Community. What this IS, is an effort so that you ALL understand what this "WAR" is all about that you may be hearing about, or unfortunately, been involved. I am NOT interested in petty, bullshit wars with the Community or a "site", it serves no purpose except to hurt, confuse, or take you from the REAL reason you visit these places. It is ONLY meant to clear up the issue of what has been traspiring against the Community, Renderosity/Renderotica and myself. And ALSO why it has effected ANY COMPANY from becoming MORE INVOLVED with the Community because of TWO people's personal agenda to make everyone's lives here a living HELL!! Don't fight my war, Ed and I are BIG BOYS and can take care of ourselves. AND DO NOT TAKE IT OUT ON THE MEMBERS OF ANY SITE!! THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE INDIVIDUAL!!! 'Nuff said!! Jack

I'll say this - I stayed with the original "crew" during the split, mostly out of loyalty to the original founders, and partly because of their propoganda. During the "Closure" I came back here, and discovered that using only one forum is kind of like a carpenter cutting off one hand for fear he might become a kleptomaniac... Both sites have strengths and weaknesses, and are valuable resources. Too bad politics and egos have to get in the way of everything...

Yes it is, CB, I've never known art and politics to go hand-in-hand, it's like an oxymoron... jumbo shrimp, military intelligence... political art (not talking satires)... happily married... the list goes on. Also when running the site for a/the Community it is not advised to have a bigger ego than the people you count on visiting the place. Granted it is alright to have rules, but having a room full of chairs and telling people if they are going to sit, they have to sit a certain way because I say it... I am the first one to say show me to the door. No, Renderosity isn't perfect, not by a long shot, it has it's fair share of problems and weakness, we do our best and are glad that there are other Community Sites out there like the Big-I that help to cover in those areas in which we lack in and vise-versa. The best thing we can do, is listen to the needs of the Community or the desires of the people that work here besides Ed and I, and try our best to "make it so", and leave the BS alone :o) Jack

Well, it is always disapointing to see what's going on under the burried layers of things!!! Humanity will always wear the germs of GENerosity as well as insanity, I think! By the way, this story stinks. As I said, I am disapointed...