I'm creating some MAT files for use on an item of clothing i bought, but i noticed the creator of the clothing has saved his MAT files in the Camera libary. Why has he done this and is it better saving MATs in Pose or Camera libary? Whats the differences and which one is better to use?

I think vendors began saving MAT pose files in other libraries (face and camera) because many customers have pose libraries that are maxed out.

Oh ok, thanxs

Personally, it annoys me when a vendor puts the MAT files in the camera library instead of the pose library. I would prefer to move them myself. I don't always put them in the camera library. In fact, with PBooost, I just put them all in their own bank. Which means that I have to go through the camera library and change them all back to .pz2 files. sigh

Attached Link: http://www.musicsucks.com/CKSoft/CKRename/

I've actually split my MATs between face and camera, since I discovered that MATs that apply to things without faces (e.g. hair and clothing) don't work in the face library.

I too would prefer that merchants definitely not do the changing for me. However, I'm using a Mac and haven't run into any renamer software I could use yet. If I do it by hand, can I just change the ending of the name from *.pz2 to *.cm2 or do I need to open the file up in a text editor and change entries inside the file? And if the text editor is the only way to go, where exactly should I look for things to change? I'm really hesitant to start fiddling with the insides of Poser files ;P

Attached Link: http://www.power4mac.com/renamer/

Actually, Ainle, all of my hair and skin MATs are in the faces folders (both prop and character hair). Should work fine in Poser 4 and Poser 4 Propack. Though I'm not sure about Poser 5 (don't have it).

I keep the Mats in the Pose, and hope it stays there. It is a standard for so many things, and it becomes a problem searching and guessing where it is installed. To me they should be in Pose > MAT .. for the standardization of where to install it rather then all around.

I dunno, a_super_hero, I don't unzip anything arbitrarily into the Poser directory - there may be extra items that I might not want in there or I may want some props or something to go into a category I've already set up. I'm weird like that though. :) But I didn't think that putting mats in the camera folders would be such a problem for folks. I figured that It probably was the most unused library type in poser and that it would give putting injections, mats, utilities, and other hacks all in Poses (which none are) a break. What I'm more that willing to do is - if anyone buys the products in my store and would rather have poses instead of cameras for their MATs and can't or doesn't want to fool with renaming them, I will send you Poses MATs by email request. :) And it isn't a bother, I'll send them promptly to you.

Thank you for the URL, Netherworks :)

I have toa gree that I dislike when MATs are moved to the Camera folder. I do keep MATs in the camera folder - but I choose what goes there - for example all my koshini & Ichiro MATs are in the camera folder. I also move my own MATs there and those I use frequently so that I can find them easier. But I prefer having the choice to move my own files.

I am a poserholic and normally get 6 things at a time, waiting up and then buying it all. Also I have things that I know I will use later and come back to 3 or 4 months later, but if it is out of place, I either have to reinstall or try and find things. There have been several times I did not even have an idea that an item had a MAT because it was located some place strange to me.

Personally, I do all my MAT's as Pose files, but when I'm done, they get renamed and shipped off to the Camera or Face folder. My personal stratedy is Clothing MAT's to Camera, Skin MAT's to face and Hair MAT's to Hair (so I dont have to run around searching 18000000000 freakin places for something that's related. Makes sense all body together all hair together...clothing is special cos it makes no sense to make a bazillion cr2's that just take up more space, but I know where I put them) I don't make mine automatically camera files because many people are dead set against the Merchant setting the directory OUTSIDE of the Pose file, which I wil NEVER understand since it saves space in the overly-used Pose folder to begin with. Honestly, I think we all need to sit down as merchants and say "This is where X file type should go" and stick to it. Be it camera or pose I could care less, but it would save botht he merchant and the purchacer a freakin headache AND save threads like this from being brought up if we had a set standard where stuff should go.

Hmmm.... This is interesting. I'm just finishing a new pack which will sell at DAZ. It relies heavily on SET (or placement) files to position figures, switch body parts on/off, and even reset joint parameters. At the moment these files are all in the Camera library along with a smaller folder of MATs, and that's where I had intended to leave them. But I can see popular opinion is against me. I have to say, I'm really surprised. I would have thought people would be glad to have SETs/MATs in another folder where they have a chance of actually finding the blasted things, but it seems not. But the main reason I put them in the camera folder is that there are 'real' camera positions mixed in with them. Every group of SET files has it's own camera view. Since this pack involves moving around a room, I figured it would be so much easier to use one folder only. Now I'm not so sure. It would take me all of 2 minutes to change them with Renamer, so that's no big deal. But, I'd be interested in any comments you have on this. mac

maclean, I don't think DAZ will let you leave them in the wrong folders anyhow. They are particular about placement and may require you keep poses in the pose folder.

hi LSM, LOL. I know that. I asked and they said something like 'In our experience, people don't like anything they don't understand'. I haven't sent DAZ the pack yet, but before I do I want to resolve this problem. The problem being a) that these are SET files, not MATs and I'd like to keep them separate. And b) That people would have to keep zipping off to the camera folder anyway. I can see me just having to just put them in poses, and strongly reccomend that people shift them all into the camera folder where the views are. I can also add a link to Renamer. It's a bit ridiculous. I'm trying to make everything as simple as possible for the users, but it seems I'm up against it. mac

Well you have to package for newcomers - experienced users will move their stuff around anyhow. A "set" pose is technically a positioning pose so it does belong in the pose folder. I would probably move it myself, depending on how much I like/use the set.

Actually, I'm not sure what the deal was with hair and clothing MATs in the Face folder(Poser 4), but when I moved the files there (renamed to fc2), none of them would allow me to apply them (no little checkmark). The regular body and face MATs worked fine. When I moved them to the Camera folder (as cm2), they worked. I couldn't be bothered to investigate any further, so I just left things that way :-)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=1299510

Actually I think any kind of hacked poser file can go anywhere you want to put it within the restraints of how the program calls the file so it would work as cameras, poses or faces- recoloring and adding texture is not a pose either. So I don't see how there's a "right" or "wrong" to this since it isn't an original function of the program but a discovery by users. really I don't see how anyone's "choice" is being denied here - ??? well, like I said earlier, I'm willing to provide poses versions of the MATs by request for my existing products. I may rethink to change all the cameras to poses, especially in light of mountainmaster's post (thanks for the info on that).

mountainmaster, Thanks for the link. I already knew about that thread. In fact, I posted in it. The problem there seems to be more with suspect MAT files than poser 5, although I'm not ruling out the possibility that there's a problem. At least half the people beta-testing for me will be doing it in poser 5, so I'm already taking precautions in that department. I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that I may just have to dumb down, even if it makes the pack more awkward to use. Ainle, I'm very suspicious of the Face library myself. I've had a couple of odd results with it and that put me off, at least, as far as anything for sale is concerned. mac

I'm using Poser 5 and I have problems with the pose files in the Camera Library. They'll apply as long as I don't render. But as soon as I render one time, then the camera "pose" files don't work anymore. If I rename them and put them in the Pose Library, then I don't have this problem. I can render as many times as I like and still apply MATs in between. Kevin

I feel sorry for CL sometimes .. they don't know what do do with us ..putting material information in poses and sticking them any old plece ... grin Well after loading 8 gigs of freestuff onto my poor Runtime I noticed two things ... 1) that it took two minutes to scroll to the bottom of my Poser library, and 2) that my camera folder was empty .... so I moved ALL my MAT and MOR files over to the Camera fodler and used the shareware "LupusRename" to change the extensions. They work just fine and I have more space ... For Merchants? have them default to the Pose Library .. us persnicketty types won't be happy anyway lol and at least that way you won't confuse the newbies

I've been doing a bit of file counting and have come up something that might be of help. My pack has over 180 SET/MAT files. Total zipped size = 1.36Mb. I had thought on maybe including both Pose and Camera versions, but that means the download size is increased. However.... 90% of that is taken up by .rsrs. I zipped the .cm2s and they come out at 69kb. So..... it seems to me that I could include both .pz2 and .cm2 files with one set of .rsrs (which will work with both) and let the user decide which version to use. Since my pack is aimed at more advanced users, I'm not worried about them being too dumb to know what the hell's going on. And it would be fully explained in the Help File anyway. I'm with Netherworks on this one. There is no correct place for these files. Maybe by offering a choice, people can decide for themselves. mac

I almost wish all pose files (MAT/SET/MOR/Scale) installed to an extra folder in libraries called "MoveMe" or something. Then I'd know right where to look when I started the moving process after installing twenty items in one night. Hmm... Maybe I should just start unzipping everything to a temp directory, renaming the folder where pose files reside, then rezipping and doing it like I want. I always unzip to temp anyway, just to catch the stuff that isn't going where it's supposed to go.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=10139&Form.ShowMessage=1358917

Ok, I though about it and I'm going to go beyond the "email request" idea.

If you own DarklingWear, NetherGear and/or StarVixen and would rather have the MATs as poses you can get the files here:

"DarklingWear Pose Mats"
"NetherGear Pose Mats"
"StarVixen Pose Mats"

Just to add another opinion... I can't bear the thought of installing directly to my Runtime. I used to do that and things got all out of hand. I always install to a temp directory, edit the files as needed--and there's usually a LOT of need--then move them. maclean, as far as SET files go, I think it makes sense to keep those with the camera files. Transpond from RDNA does that and it makes a lot of sense to see the "camera" file then the "set" pose for the figure to plop them in the right place. 'course, that could just be me. As far as MATs go, I put 'em all in the Pose directory. But, then again, if you've got P5 you can nest directories which helps a lot. I remember my pose directory getting WAY too big when I was using P4. It's a major reason I put up with P5, to tell the truth.

Ok, here is what I do. I unzip/install everything to a folder named "Poser Temp". Then I go in and change file names (you wouldn't believe how many people name things "sword" or "chair" so I have to convert them to things like "sword 01" and "chair 32" to keep things from being overwritten. After I've done that, I sort the textures into the folders where I can find them (textures:Clothes:Vicky:Clopak1:Skirt for example), name the MAT, MOR, FIT and other poses according to type and run Correct Reference. THEN I move it all into my Poser runtime, putting things in the directory structure that makes the most sense to me. Since I use PBooost, I have several different folders. Example: PoseMATClothes, PoseMATHair, PoseFITHair, PoseScenes, PosePeople, PoseAnimals, etc. This applies to everything from characters to faces to hair to poses to props. That way, if I'm working with Vicky, I don't need to have Dina or Natalia's stuff loaded up. Or if I'm working on setting up the scenery I don't need to have any of the people or animal figures loaded up. Now, given that I don't install directly to the Poser runtime, and I do have a great batch renamer program, it's still very annoying to have to go looking for POSES in the camera or hair folder. What I, as a consumer, want in the camera folder is camera settings. I want light settings in the lights folder, face settings in the faces folder, and would it really be too much to ask that somewhere in the readme file merchants could include a little note that tells you what model the item is for? I can't begin to tell you how many things like hair and clothes I have that I bought so long ago that I actually have to come to r'osity, do a search for the product and find out that way. And that doesn't always work. All it would take would be a little line that says "designed for use with Vicky 2" or "designed for use with Posette" or whatever applies. Ok, sorry for the rant and going off topic and such, but please, if I want pose files in my camera folder, let me put them there myself so I'll know where the heck to look for them in the first place. (Not everyone remembers to mention that they put the mat poses in cameras). Kate

I admit that I install directly into my runtime folder - but that's habit from the amount of beta and store testing I do. However about every 2 months I go through and remove old files. I have absolutely no default Poser 4 characters/people, poses or animals in my folders or geometries - except of course the stick guy. Since I rarely use V2 anymore there are only maybe 2 V2 texture folders - if I want different textures I pull them off my texture cds. My favorite V3 textures are in a folder title ! V3 FAV Skins where I have my _samildanich and ecstacy textures. All the Koshini stuff is in the camera library so I can find it easily and not go to the middle of the library to load all the clothes and textures. My personal product/freebies and personal use MATs and poses are also in the Camera folder. I also move my files around - by character/creator need. But it's just my personal system and I wouldn't package my products that way.

Hey I wonder if you could have a bank of Pose directories called Pose, Pose1, Pose2, Pose3, etc, then use REN statments in a batch file to rotate them? Don't blaim me if your PC blows up ;)

Hi As I poser 5 user I would prefer to place them in the poser folder. There you also have the sub folder who I use myself. In poses I have folders for Vici poses (Standard poses), Vici mat, Vici clothes and P4 poses, P4 mat, P4 clothes, one for hair, and one for object mats This work great I think. Only thing is the regular new item groups like poserworld who have their original folders. This keeps the folder small and its pretty easy to sort the items. One thing I have wondered about is that then I cerate a new folder its placed at the bottom of the list, so the list is not alphabetic. For a poser 6 or a major poser 5 update I would want the possibility to mix characters, mat poses and props in a folder or folder tree. That way I could keep the mat poses and props for clothing or characters close. Magne

"One thing I have wondered about is that then I cerate a new folder its placed at the bottom of the list, so the list is not alphabetic." I don't have P5 but when you create a new folder do you capitalize the folder name? In P4 if you do not capitalize the first letter then the folder is put at the bottom.

No I didn't capitalize the first letter :o) You learn something all the time :o) That was usefull.

Of course you don't need to unzip to a temp file at all... I just open in WinZip with Path as the sort column, then drag and drop groups of files into the folders that I want them to be in. I get to see the whole "picture" at once as to were things have to go, and can move them easily without having to worry about vendor-named folders, etc. If I need a .pz2 to .cm2 conversion, I just drag-n-drop the files unchanged, fire up P3DO (right click on any file or folder name in Windows Explorer, it's under Send To, and it will open to the right folder) and select Tools > Pattern Renamer. Click Extension, click Replace, and enter "pz" with "cm", then click OK. It will search the entire folder, converting all that need it, and give you a confirming count of how many it changed. Simple. (You do not need to type a Filter in this case - despite what Help says.) (I would never risk installing a vendor's Zip directly into my carefully maintained Runtime! When I'm beta testing I have to of course, but not until I've done it once by hand and looked over the Zip for bugs, and then tested again in a temp directory ;-) BTW, if you prefer to see the Zip in directory nested style rather than flat, you can just use WinRAR instead of WinZip to open the .zip file. Final note: on any and all Windows systems go to Windows Explorer, Tools > Folder Options > View, then find and CLEAR "Hide file extensions for known file types", if you haven't already. Not only will that let you see .cm2, .pz2 extensions, etc., but it is essential to see past the double-extension trick used by virus creators.

Well, I've decided. All my SETs will be going into a Pose folder and people can do what they like with them. I'm not including a separate Camera version either. It's too complicated. Anyone who knows enough to want to shift files to the camera folder presumably possesses a Renamer app, or knows how search for one. Renaming files takes one click to do. I can understand people's reluctance to have things imposed on them. I never install directly, and I regularly rename obj files and change paths. I was doing my pack this way in the interests of user-friendliness, but obviously, people prefer to make their own file modifications. Fair enough. As far as unzipping goes, DAZ provides an .exe installer, but that's nothing to do with me. There are ways to get around the auto-install, if you know how. mac

PS magne - Poser uses the old DOS system of file reading. Numbers come before letters, and Uppercase before lowercase. So if you have folders named models Models 01models in poser they'll look like this 01models Models models mac

The question of MAT/SET/MOR/WHAtever files 'belonging' in the Pose directory reminds me of a question I asked my father when I was about 12-14 years old... You see I was a pretty deep thinker by then and often thought about 'big picture' things. It occured to me that when you see a map of the USA (for example), Maine is always shown on the top-right and Florida is always shown on the bottom-right. For that matter, 'North' is always depicted as 'Up'... but WHY? If some alien species comes flying into our solor system, when they looked through thier uber-scope from orbit, would they see the US as we imagine it on our maps? Would it be upside-down? These are things a young teenager wants answers to ;). I don't recall my father's exact words, but it was along the lines of "so everyone has a common reference...". As proud as I was to have come to such metaphysical deductions at the time, It didn't MATTER that I was right that there was NO 'correct' way of stating which way is 'up' (in fact if I point 'down', it stops becoming 'down' when extended to the other side of the earth, but I digress...). What was important was that everyone have a common frame of reference. Getting back to the question at hand... you are right that MAT/MOR/SET/etc files are not really 'Pose' files... but the first ones created were created as such, and so a precedent was set - that's where people 'expect' to find them ;). On the other hand, someone mentioned hair color MAT files above... that's a great idea... I'm going to move all of mine into the folders the hair resides in right now - thanks! - Keith

Yes!! great insight!

LOL Spanki. That reminds me of the first time I read 'The Man Who Fell to Earth' by Walter Tevis (the most under-rated American writer ever, IMO). When one of the characters says to the 'martian' something like 'So you're from Mars?', he replies 'Yes. Except we don't call it Mars. We call it Anthea, so I'm an Anthean' I thought that was so cool. It's obvious that martians wouldn't call themselves 'martians', but it had never occurred to me before. mac