In an attempt to help decrease the sharing of gallery images without the artists permission, we have implemented a new security on the gallery. We have turned off the image toolbar and disabled the Rt Click on the thumbs and full images in the gallery. We appreciate everyone's support on this. thanks tammy

Can we as artists set such permissions? Or are we stuck with a blanket look but don't touch policy? I for one have no problem with persons viewing and downloading my images as wallpapers (that's what I make them for after all). Richard Booy Incarnadine

great sounding idea but it won't keep them off the pics for long, if you know where to look you can still get the pics & most of these thieves are very inventive. There's gotta be a way to stop the browsers from keeping copies of files we access, I wonder if there's a way to encrypt the pics so that only the browsers can access/display them.

Why? I mean jesus, if people want to use my image as a background, let them. If someone wants to steal my work and claim it as their own...oh well, it's not like i'm losing money or anything.

That's part of the point, some of these "persons" have been making money out of other artists work. Wouldn't you be slightly pissed if someone took a picture of yours & sold it as their own work? you'd be losing money then wouldn't you?

If this had been an option that the artist could select, then OK, I will respect their wishes and not save the picture. But otherwise, I don't like it. It will not stop a theif anyway. There are pictures I DO want to save. I do not steal artwork, but there are some pictures that are so great that I want to have them on my computer to look at when I want to. It is really great to have Windows play them as a slide show, put some music on and just sit back and go WOW. Yes I know the galleries have a favorite picture selection, but many times the galleries are so SLOW, and it is not so fun to click and wait, wait, wait... Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Peggy

Just as a sidebar, actually, if you never intended to sell your work, then your monetary loss would be zero. The fact that someone else managed to make money off your effort doesn't take money out of your pocket unless they keep you from earning money you otherwise would have made. But on to the real topic..... I don't approve of theft in any form. I think it is easy enough to contact the artist and say, "I love that graphic...would you mind sending me a copy for my personal enjoyment." I bet most artists would be delighted to do so. And those who refuse should have their rights respected. I don't think this will keep thieves from doing their dirty work, but I applaud this as a step in the right direction. Many people are very distressed to see their work stolen and then mutilated for the amusement of someone else. What can be done to discourage stealing lite should be done...the heavy duty thieves will not be so easily discouraged.

I agree, I want this to be an option. There are many easy ways to steal a picture even with this safeguard making it useless.

About stealing for profit fears. That is what watermarks, posting dates and the legal system is for. This system only slows them down a bit yet does NOTHING to protect your images. It will only give a false sense of security.

Honestly if you are afraid your picture will be stolen and profited from, it may be best not to post it online as that is the ONLY way you can be sure to keep it safe.

If people want this system, fine have it as an option. I know it really won't protect our pictures so I would want it off as I like the idea somebody may want it as wallpaper.

Doesn't work, I can still get to the images, (but I digress...) What I can't now do is add comments with my normal browser, (ifrebird) I click in the box, but it doesn't take, it works with IE of course, but since I don't use that much I guess that's me out of the comment business till it's fixed. First you take away the ability to select your own colour scheme, now this... [sigh] later jb

If you are worried about someone possibly making money off your image to the point that you must restrict access to it, you should be asking yourself why did I make this image and why share it at all?! I make my images for the purpose of the joy I experience creating them and the fact that others like them enough to use them as wallpaper (and I know that they do) is purely an added bonus to me. I would rather control this access to my works than have someone decide this for me. Richard

This won't stop anything. Simply go to the picture you want, turn off the browser's java and you can right click again. This doesn't stop stealing of images.

Actually now I think about it more there are times I've seen pictures that I'd love to have as wallpaper but the thought that it might be stealing has stopped me from grabbing them.

the disabling of the right mouse button is more of an annoyance to me because I open the images I wish to see in new windows. If I'm wrong for that, then I am just wrong. But as far as preventing image theft... http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=468910&Start=1&Sectionid=0&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/photos/GAL_200308/GalleryImage468910.jpg it only took me 10 seconds to look up the source code for the actual image location. I could have simply searched my cache as well.

Easy fix, disable javascript, that brings it all back, (it's a toolbar check box on firebird) becuase you see, I surf the galleries by open each image in a new tab via a right click. Saves having to go back and forward all the time. later jb

Oh boy... here I go again: Image stealing? Let me get this straight. If I want to save the image on my hd because I want it to be my desktop -which I think I'm entitled to for personal use under copyright law, I can't save it anymore? What if the image is too freaking big and I want it to fit on the screen? Disabling the image toolbar takes that feature away. Plus, the workaround for this silly script-kiddie-like hack is simple. Drag the image to your desktop. You can still share it and it doesn't change squat, really. This little piece of stupidity reminds me of script kiddie sites that deny access to the source and disable right clicking just because they think it's l33t. It's just as assenine. So the whole thing is useless. It has about the same effect as a denial of service attack on an unplugged computer... and it's just as idiotic, because the issue isn't image stealing, it's telling little kiddies to stop making so much Poser pr0n from their bootleg Kazaa copy and then whine when their great achievements get downloaded and traded again. So yeah. Black ball number 2. Mihnea Dumitru

oh, and just as a little add-on. As far as I know the artist maintains the rights to his images. Therefore Renderosity isn't legally responsible for pursuing someone who is stealing the artist's work. Your art is getting stolen? follow it up legally. Or even better, make it an OPTIONAL check-mark on our image upload priorities. Don't stiff us with something we don't need or want. And by we, I'm referring to the members who don't particularly care for this specific issue. If you guys don't know how to write a bit of code to make it a user's choice, and instead opted for one of the lamest things in terms of scripts on the internet, readily available from any javascript site, then ask around. someone might be willing to help. MD

It's amazing how many ways there are to justify theft, and how much trouble people will go to to steal, when the one honest thing you could do....ask the artist for permission...is just too much trouble to go to. Says it all, doesn't it? Why should you expect other people to act better than the people that are members of the community act. I'd say, if the graphic is important to you not to have taken, be sure not to post it here. You know what will happens as soon as it goes up if it is of any interest at all. The proof is above this posting.

btw the tricks you just used to disable the "stealing" of images only work for IE. those tricks still work in all the other browsers i just used: opera, netscape & a few IE based. so all you are doing is just disabling IE users. to completely disable the "stealing" of artwork.. you have to remove the caching ability of the images or use a JAVA based program that will display the images but NOT cache them. even allowing users to upload to a server folder named no_cache, under their username, will help a little more.

Even with IE and enabled JavaScript it is possible to save the images... It is a good meant try do avoid image theft, and I thank the team for the try. Jimi

erm, dialyn, I'm simply stating a couple of things: 1. the measure is useless because it's not properly coded. 2. some people like to share their work I digitally watermark all the work I do that's worth something. As far as I know there's no way to bypass that, so I'm not worried. Plus my work isn't really that top notch for anyone to steal it. I understand the concern, I think it's okay if the option is given only to those who want it, and I think otherwise it's idiotic. please don't accuse me of stealing, because that just makes you a troll. kthx Mihnea

Even the above wouldn't stop firebird, you simply hit Ctrl-I (page info) go to the media tab, selct the image from the list and click the "Save as" button, works for embeded movies, flash files, etc. If you can see it, you can save it. But given that some 80% or more of the population uses IE, I guess it'll stop enough people from doing it. It won't stop the people who have programs like thumbs plus who can then index thier caches after they've been surfing but it will deter casual copiers I guess. Just a bit annoying to find this out the hard way. later jb

Were all the artists polled regarding this decision prior to it being implemented? If not, it seems too broad of a solution (regardless of how well it might work with a specific browser) since all of the artists are impacted. Also, how big of a problem are we really addressing? How many instances of image theft from Renderosity can be identified? Does it really warrent this type of reaction or are we killing mosquitos with cannons? Just some thoughts...

Guys, Thanks for the feedback, Please keep it comming.

It is NOT theft with my images!

I haven't seen one positive reaction to this posted by anyone but mods. I think that speaks volumes. Personally, he who steals my art steals trash (to coin a phrase) and if more people end up looking at my art so what. If someone would be so pitiable a specimen to feel the least bit better by claiming my work as his own so be it. :^). Really, this should be a choice, like whether I choose to block nudity, can people download my images, Y or N. Please work in that direction, I think that could make everyone happy.

I am not in favor of this change. Most of my fractals are on Webshots in albums and they are open to the public. There are dozens of downloads of my images each week. I think this is wonderful and I'm pleased if others enjoy seeing and downloading my pics. If they can make some money off them, so much the better. But mainly----WHEN DID RENDEROSITY BECOME OUR CARETAKER?--- We are each of us to be responsible for ourselves and our actions. If I am worried about the theft of one of my images, then it is UP TO ME TO REFRAIN FROM POSTING IT ON THE INTERNET ANYWHERE! My two cents worth. Marion

Can you imagine how many requests someone like Rochr or Hobbit would get!

I agree Incarnadine, I would love to have Hobbit's entire gallery as my wallpapers.

I agree with some of the comments above - disabling the toolbar and right click menu is pretty much useless. Even more, it is also another case of 'protection' started with good intentions but ending up not protecting anything at all and being a pain for regular/legal usage. In the 3 years I have been member of this site, I can't stress enough how much I have learned by saving images I find interesting to view them later offline. It is part of the community experience. People leave, clean up their gallery. Bugs happen and could delete images (it has happened before). I am glad I could save some fantastic images before they dissapeared that way. In the end - if someone really want to copy images and sell them, they will find a work around it. The only way to protect images on the web is to not put them there in the first place. What next ? mandatory watermark across images ? java applet or plug in to display image ? This copyright issue is turning into mass hysteria and I don't like the way this is going. Please - remove this useless 'improvement'. Renderosity has made amazing improvements over the years which turned the site into one of the easiest to use in this category. Don't spoil it with crippleware. And before I get some comments - I already came across some of my images on other websites, some charging for them. I had to deal with them when I found them and I still have them online.

Something like that doesn't really work. My suggestion would be to imbed the image in a java applet. That way the only way to "steal" the image would be to take a screenshot.

Out of curiousity, how many artists do watermark their images? Do Hobbit and Rochr? Does watermarking work? Just curious. I'll never be good enough to worry about this stuff. But seeing as how Andy Simmons is a professional artist and does make money from his artwork, I'd like to know if this is a concern to him, (renderosity image theft). I would just think that he either wouldn't post his best stuff or he'd have it protected.

Oh, by the way, theres another trick to save an image: Do a screenshot (just press the "print"-key on your keyboard). Go to Photoshop or another imaging program, make a new file, paste the content, done. Gives you a screenshot including the URL to the image. I have to confess that I keep a "visual diary" of images and especially websites I like, just so that I always can see what level other people achieved.

Ang, just check in the lower left or right sides for a watermark. It's not just possible, it's actually quite easy to remove a watermark in PS, for the most part.

What I meant was imagine what this would do to Rochr's or Hobbit's e-mail accounts!! Almost worse than spam (grin). I would love to encode a watermark but you have to pay for the capability to do so. Any other process than Digimarc?

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I can see the point of the change, but I feel I need to point out a couple of things. The first one, obviously, is that disabling Rt-Clk doesn't actually prevent anything, just makes image capture slightly less convenient. I know of at least 4 ways around it off-hand, and I've never even researched the subject. Also, Rt-Clk isn't just turned off on the images, it's completely disabled on gallery pages. I use Rt-Clk extensively for navigation. Especially the "Open in New Window" option. Browsing the galleries was time-consuming enough, but at least I could Rt-Clk on multiple thumbs in rapid sequence, and then view each image while the additional pages were loading. It's the only way I could reduce the time browsing the galleries or forums to a point I could justify the time. I'm on DSL, and even so, the time wasted on clicking on a thumbnail, clicking the back-button, and then clicking on the next thumbnail I found interesting wastes far more time than I can afford to spare. I hope I'm making sense with my description. My point is, if Rt-Clk were disabled ONLY ON THE ACTUAL IMAGES THEMSELVES it would accomplish the present goal of making image-capture slightly less convenient without making gallery navigation completely impractical. As it is, I can't even Rt-Clk on my shopping cart from a gallery page to open a separate window and see if I've already purchased a product used in an image I like, or open a separate window into the MP to add something to my shopping cart. To Sum up - PLEASE re-enable the Rt-Clik option to the gallery pages and thumbs and just disable it for the Images themselves (assuming most members would prefer that). note, I myself have no problem with people downloading images in my gallery either way. I've always figured that's what watermarks were for.

I wonder if we put some text on the image upload page that said something like: "Please remember to watermark your images for your protection" If that would make everyone happy? This would be a reminder that you can do only if you like.

It's upto moderator's of the site to make the call but as a member of Renderosity I'm highly against this "feature". It just make the regular visitor's life more difficult and it surely not protect images from thefts. If the moderators want less people to hang at their server this is the way to do it. Somebody above also mentioned that people should ask from the artist if one wants to download the picture. That's true but how would you like it if one day you check your mailbox and see couple of thousands messages titled "mee want tiz too" ... ? Those lamers who are stealing the pictures for their own financial use can't be stopped until the picture does not exist in the internet - and we all know this: "once x is shared for the net it forever remains in bitheaven". Artist are those who make decision about their work. If you make a piece then you don't have to share it! But what is an artist without an audience? And you can always add your "signature" to the picture as large as you like so no one can missuse the piece or shrunk resolution to 400 pixels and something .. (wallpaper freaks probably slate these few last ideas;)

Quote: Also, Rt-Clk isn't just turned off on the images, it's completely disabled on gallery pages. I use Rt-Clk extensively for navigation. Especially the "Open in New Window" option. --------------- Leather-guy: use CTRL-Shift-LeftMouseKlick to open links in a new window. J.

You can still open a link in a new window in most browsers by holding down [Shift] when clicking. In Opera you can go a step further by holding down [Ctrl]+[Shift] and clicking as it will open the new page behind the existing one and you don't have to move focus back to the first window. That's actually my preferred method as it's quicker than rt-clicking and selecting new window, especially if you're opening many gallery image pages at the same time (I do the same as you do leather-guy.)

Well..y'all have seen me happy, seen me sad, but I am hoppin' mad now..understand, folks, I've downloaded works from each and every one of you, have been, since December of '01, when I joined. I have thousands of pictures from 'rosity, and not once have I been tempted to share, sell, spindle, or even mutilate a single one of 'em. I just like nice pictures. What really steams me is that I can't even download My Own Pictures!..where's the logic in that? not that I don't backup, but sheesh..
Thanks for the Java tip, for those of us who collect good art, this is really a bridge too far..as for watermarking, if I wind up on Witt's End or Webshots, noone would be laughing louder than me..what's next, freestuff? gimme a break.

Leather-guy hits my points. "Open in new window" is my friend. Having to stop and load a new browser window to compare a few products side by side is a bit of a pain. Ditto on the galleries. I like to be able to load one image I want to look at while loading a new page of thumbnails. But, it is a start. Nothing is foolproof for protection, not disabling clicks or saves or watermarks. A determined thief can get around all of it. The "don't post your work online if you don't want it stolen" concept is equally useless. Printed images are at just as much risk, all it takes is a scanner or camera. Visible watermarks get you complaints and whines. Embedded watermarks can be defeated, and in the end, their efficiency depends on the amount of money you have to pursue theft legally. Most digital image thieves, though, have one thing in common -- they're lazy. If they weren't utterly lazy, they could learn to do it themselves. Every step to slow them down can help. I'm just not sure this step was implemented well. I LIKE my right clicks.

derjimi That's a great tip! Nowhere near as convenient as the Rt-Clk method, but it works perfectly - New Post-it on my monitor frame - Thanks!

this is not good,I use right click all the time,so many pics here are posted so large that I save them to the HD to get a better look,the thieves I'm sure know how to look in there temp files,this is just an inconvinence,my last upload was sized at 1024,for people who want a screensaver,now how do they get it

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..dang work PC has all Advanced settings locked..so there goes 80% of the fun of this place..all I can do now is look..and watch the good ones get buried by the next day's arrivals. Well, the missus is gonna luv this one, I can only do this at home now..
can we 'opt out' of this? some of us have no problems with our pics being distributed. maybe we could do that, or set up a 'non-shareable' gallery, for those in favor of this..this..nah, not gonna violate the TOS, or even the TNG..

I'm with leather-guy and CryptoPooka. Not only that I use right click to save my purchase promos for quick reference when browsing through my HD. I surely don't have it all installed. Please put it back the way it was.

I use Mozilla and can have several tabs or windows open at the same time. If I run across an artist I want to see more of while continuing to browse I use the rt-clk to open as a new tab/window. This is not going to be convenient!

well i just joined up and recently gotten poser.. and your wonderful images is what made me buy it in the first place... with no open in new window i would never look at the gallerys again in full sized it would take me hrs. on dail up to see even a few!lol i agree if you don't want others to use it don't post it. but it is nice to ask... which i have! but artists it is nice to respond to requests either way too! there are many who never did. just my two cents worth.

NO NO NO! A thousand times NO! What's with the workarounds for right-clicking anyway. That's just stupid. Keyboard shortcuts with two-fingers PLUS a mouse click to do what we naturally do with one? Make it less and less convenient to browse the galleries and you'll have ... tada fewer browsers. You'll also have angry browsers. Saving an image to disk IS NOT THEFT. Mass hysteria from the few who are going around hunting down stolen images and making a big stink. Why didn't you ask EVERYONE who posts to the galleries before implementing this? I cannot see ONE reason why this is a good idea. AND it would also be stupid make it an option. You know why? It will actually invite theft of the images that allow right-click. Think it through.

It's a sad day when R'osity has to go this far. I tend to keep pictures as reference material - not to try to duplicate it myself (i'm no artist) but to study the composition/light/shadow stuff. Especially Vue renders from the best artists. It helps me learn. I learned to play guitar by ear, so i'm trying to learn by sight now. BillyGoat

In the referring thread leather-guy gave the perfect reason for Rendo not to do this. Heh. How many times have I right-clicked from the Product credits to go to the MP? Never again. ;-) Hey, Rendo..if you do this you might as well remove the credits feature from the galleries. The bandwidth and server space will just have to be a total write-off.