just a suggestion...both are still great models. I really don't want to see them go the way of Dork & Posette.

I fully intended to give up V2 because I like V3 so much better....However, I find I use V2 alot because V3 crashes P4 too much...so unless I'm doing a close up I go back to using V2 cause I get so sick of Poser crashing...

I've got products for V3 and (soon) M3, but also Posette, P5Judy, and just released a big update that gives new life to Michael 1. Still lots of uses for older, less demanding figures, especially in complex scenes, and a market for their products - Elisa/gryffnn

I second this : I only use V2 and M2 ! But I guess this is a marketting problem, given the fact that Lord Nakagawa's mannikin to transfer V3 outfits to V2 hasn't been released yet.

I really don't care much for V3, I preffer v2

I'll wait until the array of stuff for V3 reaches the a level where a full array of clothes have accumulated. And to see if she sticks around. I waited for V1 and didn't get too bogged down with Dina or Judy.

I don't care much for V3 either. She just increases the file sizes. V2 and M2 run just fine for me in Poser 4/5. V3 is too much trouble adding and subtracting morphs and filling up my Poser library with folders that start with "!".

yup me too- V2 - lol

I got V3 and dont use her that morph injection hooey is not for me as i am an animator. and dont need All the drag on my renders woch look great in Cinema4DXL with V2&M2 i will be passing on M3 for this and many other reasons :-/

I've got her too, but because am not a portrait renderer, the Mil2 people are suiting me just fine. My purchase of M3 is still up in the air, I'll be waiting to see how well he's supported with Platinum Club.

I've started begging Burton to modify a Vicky 2 to fit Vicky 3's joint paramiters, clothing and basic body shape. I have Vicky 3, like Vicky 3 but she is simply too hi-rez to use for anything but portrait pictures (YAWN!). And since Daz has decided to kill all support for V2 and most merchants are far too lazy to spend a couple extra hours to fit their outfits to both (exception being PoserWorld, thank Gawd!) the only hope I have to keep spending my money on clothing is for someone to convert a V2. Same thing will of course apply to Mike 3, the difference being since I have experience with V3, I won't even bother buying the new Mike. Total waste of money.

a vicky 2 with V3 joint poarameters!This is a great idea And for mike too... I would pray on my knees for this! :-)

I also prefer V2, mostly because I don't like the morph injection system. V3 has her good points, but I admit I have not bought very much that is V3 only. I don't like the idea of starting all over again, buying all the same things that I once bought for V2. Just my opinion. :-)

Right, Sparrowheart. Vendors would do best to make their stuff in V2 and V3 variants. I won't touch a V3 item that can't be used on V1/2. This is too much like planned obsolescence with the only intent to make folks buy what for V3 they already bought for V2. DAZ could have made a V3 that was compatible with V2 stuff, but didn't.

** and most merchants are far too lazy to spend a couple extra hours to fit their outfits to both ** Nice generalisation there Farside raised eyebrow Perhaps the lazy ones are the customers who can't bother learning magnets and jp changing and do it themselves instead of expecting the already overworked merchants to learn it all and do it for them? It's not like the tutorials aren't available to do these things yourselves. (it's another viewpoint to consider, although read below) As I can only speak for myself, it's not a simple matter of just changing the joint parameters and it fits you know. I am currently converting all my V1/2 clothing over to V3 (and vice versa), but it's done as a background project as conversions take time to do 'right' and there is no way I'm wasting valuable modelling time on something that will NOT put food on my family's table ... there just isn't that many people who are going to buy a conversion pack, even though they'll be VERY cheap and VERY well done.

I said "most merchants", I'm aware that there are some who put in the effort and I'm glad for that. I've already bought your Ultra Morphs for Ultra Gloves and have several more of your clothing items on my "to buy" list, it's just that merchants like you are the exception, not the rule. Unfortunately Daz currently has me in a rather fowl mood with their tactics and it's probably spreading to my feeling for other venders as well.

Just FYI : converting V2->V3 (or M2->M3) is usually a little more than just a few hours work. It involves, at the very least : o Re-scaling - figure dimensions are different o Possibly re-fitting - figure dimensions etc. o Re-grouping - joints have different positions and settings o Re-polishing joint parms - joints have different etc. o Possibly re-texturing - tex's may have been stretched by re-scale It's not an entirely new figure, you have the mesh. But it's largely a new setup, and that's roughly half the work in creating a clothing item. Add to this that customers expect more and more morphs - understandably, as the increased flexibility of the figures isn't worth much if the clothing can't follow. I'm sure all vendors would love to make all clothing in both #2 and #3 versions, but some patience is necessary - we all want new clothing, too ;o)

Another reason why I'm hoping for a modified Vicky 2. Might be easier to have a V2 altered to V3 joint paramiters and basic body shape than all the clothing. Still annoying though because there's at least 20-30 clothing items I'd love to buy but can't due to this. Maybe venders should ask Steve Shanks how he does it since he seems to be able to do it to multiple clothing items every week. Oh yeah, Xena... I've seen tutorials and a manniquin for changing V2 clothing to V3 in Tailor but is there a manniquin and tutorial for changing V3 clothing to V2? I haven't seen one if you could tell me where to look.

I'm glad Xena and thip beat me to posting. Now, I don't have to type as much. As they have said the base mesh is the easy part... the rest is really time consuming. The joint setups are totally different and the body groupings are not nearly as close as most people think. V3 is not very forgiving in that respect. You have to cut your mesh pretty close to the cuts in her mesh. The item will conform with no problems, but will have posing problems if it isn't cut very close to V3's. Just my 3 cents worth Ed

"is there a manniquin and tutorial for changing V3 clothing to V2?" Lord Nakagawa has made one. He sent it to DAZ to be released on their site. I seem to remember it was a month or so ago. The mannikin has not been released by DAZ at this date (or I have not been able to find it...).

I use both V2 and V3, and I doubt if I'll ditch V2. Actually, I still use Posette from time to time. The morph injection system does suck rather. If M3 uses it, I'll never buy M3, that's for sure.

I'm seriously worrying about my Runtime/Poses folder if I will get M3. V3 and her stuff has blown it up to the point of bursting.

V3 and M3 are intended to offer greater variability and realism, I think. We all want that, we just don't want the increased systems demands ;o) What usually happens is that the "outdated" figures are gradually retired towards the background, as happened with Posette and Dork when V1/M1 were introduced. Games do the same thing - some actually change the resolution dynamically as things move closer or farther away. When the machines get stronger we don't want the present highest-res figures all over - we want even HIGHER resolution figures up front. Happens with every new generation of games. When V1/M1 first came out, many a PC was at its limits with both figures in the same scene. Moore's law has taken care of that - it will probably take V3/M3 to stardom and then to the extras crowds in less time than we imagine ;o)

I find V3 actually keeps my file sizes down when I only inject the morphs that I need. I do lean towards portraits, and the realism in V3 is quite compelling.I don't usually do crowded scenes, but if I did, a V3 with almost no morphs is pretty small indeed. I intend to buy M3 as soon as he comes out as well. As for 'lazy' merchants. Sheesh. It takes times to do conversions. They could be using that time to create something new instead. As I see it, newer technology usually replaces the old, and in the long run, that's a good thing. We keep crossing new frontiers, and it's exciting. We're not all still using Windows 3.0 and Mac OS 7. ;)

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com

One thing I can tell you is that from a business standpoint, we certainly were not immediately in love with the idea of creating a figure so drastically different from its predecessor that incompatibility would be next to impossible to avoid. The greater compatibility we can provide for our new products, the better they are accepted by our customers and the greater the following that is created for the new item. Unfortunately, we felt there were several other important issues which overpowered this dread we felt. As with all tech industry production, eventually bigger and better ideas come around that simply will not mesh with older ideas, practices, and/or technology. This is the situation we found ourselves in with the new ideas and technology for Victoria 3.0. We were at a crossroads in technology. We have certain goals and desires for advancement of our flagship figures, but at the same time, the current technological constraints inherent with Poser were already very tight around our production abilities. The number of current Poser "work arounds" is unbelievable. This has been cascading more and more over the last two years. How many of us can remember life without MAT Pose files? How many of us remember time before ERC? How many of us remember back when the ONLY thing pose files were used for were for posing? ;) The improvements we wish to make to our figures simply cannot be contained within Poser without serious work arounds. The INJection Morph system that was developed is simply another of these work arounds. However, whereas a MAT file not only worked around what Poser could naturally do, it also saved time and was a wonderfully user-friendly idea; the INJ/REM system, though also stretching what Poser was originally intended to do, by nature doesn't lend itself to quite as "simple" or user-friendly of a system as other work arounds. However, without it, Victoria 3.0 would have virtually no chance of working well for most users.

The good news is that all these work-arounds will go the way of the Dodo once DAZ|Studio is released. There will be no need to use MAT pose files as you will be able to very quickly and easily load and replace materials to whichever body parts you like all in one single operation contained nicely within the interface. The INJ/REM system will also slip away into the past, as D|S's smart asset managers will intelligently keep only needed assets loaded into memory, etc.

But back to Victoria 2 - 3 and Michael 2 -3. Due to the limitations of older technology, Victoria 3 and Michael 3 have not been seen in all their glory yet. Until the software they are used within is brought up to speed as well, their full potential will continue to be only partially realized. Our hope is that DAZ|Studio will grow along with the Millennium Figures in the future. Hopefully, such a technological crossroad as we passed last year will not approach the Millennium Figures again anytime soon. With a truly 'universal' mesh now in existence for all of our Millennium figures, it will greatly improve our production abilities. And with a modern application option made freely available to all Millennium customers, the opportunities are much greater for everyone involved.

P.S. Just to clarify about the Free basis of DAZ|Studio. The beta will be released for free, AND all future versions of the base application will continue to be released free, so long as the support for DAZ Content grows along with DAZ|Studio. We plan to keep DAZ|Studio free for as long as possible. How long that goes on for will be decided by our customers.

Thanks for listening,

Steve Kondris
DAZ Productions, Inc.

No need for MAT poses NOR Injections! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Sounds exciting indeed! I HATE making MAT files! :D

Steve: I always figured that Vicky 3 hadn't been seen in all her glory because the HARDWARE available (and affordable) to the masses wasn't up to speed... you're saying that the Daz Studio SOFTWARE will make it possible to bring in multiple Vicky 3's for every V3 that can currently be brought into Poser? So where in Poser I can currently bring in eight Vicky 2 characters but can only bring in two stripped down Vicky 3 characters.... In Daz Studio I'll be able to bring in six to eight Vicky 3's with the same hardware I have now? If that's possible then I'll gladly say I'm sorry, come down there and kiss your feet.

I still think that will depend on your memory.

The average crop of computers around isn't capable of handling a lot of what is available on Poser5. That was my problem with V1 and V2. I couldn't use them (or Mike) in scenes with more than one character in it until I tripled the horsepower on my next PC purchase. That's also the case with V3 ... a PC upgrade is necessary for me to even try to use her/it. Given the large investment that folks have in Mike/Vicki's 1&2 ... it seems good business sense to continue to supply product for them. DAZ has just walked away from this market and 90% of what one sees is either V3 or Koshini. I shop elsewhere.

Hi Steve, Even as we get more powerful comptuers, we'll want ever more MBs in our scenes. So the smart asset manager sounds great! BUT I hope DAZ Studio will still allow morph injection - just because it's so useful for adding/removing new morphs, such as character faces, on the fly. That capability to continue to expand a product's versatility, even after it has been distributed, without resorting to an update is an innovation worth keeping. Elisa/gryffnn

I still don't understand what was wrong with Vicky2 joint parameters so that they had to be changed, thus making V2 gear unwearable on V3. Was that a specific issue ?

Good question. DAZ's answer sounds like a corporate tap dance (corporate including all large organizations, not just those allegedly operating for profit)