I was thinking of this today, knowing that once a project or a program is scrapped by one company, the company taking it over would most certainly NOT be interested in following it up. But as an attempt at things, do you guys think that a petition stating our interest and Bryce's future and a request to Vector Capital to revive it would work? I'd be more than glad to set it up and everything, just a matter of agreeing on the language. Again, with your permission. And I do believe that Renderosity -here I go again- would be more than interested in helping out in this venture. Drac

I don't know if it will work, but it's worth a try. count me in for signing a petition to revive the bryce project.

Me too! My wish is that Matt Farlow could buy them out, and merge Bryce and Terragen. Hmm... now that's an idea! :)

Seem's to me that Vector Capitol should sell the Bryce property to Doc Mojo and concentrate on office or draw. When Corel bought Bryce I thought they would take the texture generator from CorelDraw into Bryce and add Draw tools to the terrain generator. The fact that they didn't may speak to incompatabilities in the software. With vector at the helm and Corel management and development in essentially the same positions, all the attitudes toward Bryce will stay in place. This means they will continue to ignore the program. Better to sell it to someone who wants it and use the money to develop the other Corel programs. You can ask someone to do something but you can't make them want to do something. There are people who want to do things with Bryce. I say Corel has already had it's chance. Sell the program to someone who believes in it.

Many, many moons ago I was introduced to the 3D world via a small but very efficient low end program called Simply 3D. I followed it to it's end; that was when Micrografx was bought by Corel. Corel burried the program. I thought that by buying it they would incorporate the modelling capabilities into Bryce. And as Electroglyph was wrong; so was I. Simply 3D was declared dead. In the years after this happened, I've written, written and written to Corel to ask them about the copyright to all the (very good) meshes that came with Simply 3D. Not ONE response. I asked about what others thought about it; should I (could I) give away some of these freebies, that I after a LOT of messing around have managed to get from the native S3D file format into .obj format. One of the moderators over there said that since Corel doesn't respond, that might imply that they simply don't know who has the ownership over these meshes, and that they might belong to the people who were once employed by Micrografx and made them. I dunno. I only know that Corel has had a gem in their hands, and that they blew it, - meaning Bryce now. I have no clue why they didn't market it more agressively, and developed it further. I have also been following WordPerfect since it was born a long, long time ago. As a matter of fact, I was part of the team that translated the first versions to Norwegian. That too used to be a good product, - well, I use Word now. lol Anyways; what's you guys opinion about the old S3D meshes. Hubby says: "give them away". I say; Hmm... I certainly don't want to get into a copyright battle with anybody.

Hey Drac... i agree with u 100%...I think even if its a try it would bring anything good for us... Thnx... varun...

We can't let it go without a fight, otherwise what would that say about us as a community! Lets all work together to get Bryce up and running again! Thanks Drac for showing the way!

you can count me in for a petition!

Lets face it! Corel are primates, and i have a feeling that Vector Capitals will eventually earn that description as well. (a new image...) F..k the users, it all comes down to please the stockholders and give them more dollars to spend. Im usually an optimistic person, but with B5, im afraid weve seen the last Bryce as we know it. Even if Doc Mojo would get his hands on the code, he would most likely merge it with Mojoworld. I dont have anything against Mojoworld, it produces fantastic images, but i use Bryce for a reason. It just wouldnt be the same. :(

Im not so confident it will all work out either, I just don't see what would happen with it (positive wise, anyway.) It just seems doomed to me....but what the hay, I'll sign your little pettition anyhow.

I'll sign a petition as well... If we don't try then we will never see Bryce surface again. If we try to do something we might be pleasantly surprised. It's worth a shot at the least. I would HATE to see Bryce fade away. I will always use it but to just see it fade off into nothingness like Simply 3D did.... I don't want to see that happen.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to write a petition. I just think Corel's opinion about Bryce has already been expressed. I still have my copies of S3D version 2 and 3. I thought it was neat that you could use the transparency from transparent gifs. The lathe tool was great for making bottles etc. None of that went into Bryce. Maybe a petition would help, but it should be to Vector Capital and not Corel. If the boss tells them maybe they'll listen.

Vector Capital, the name says it all, 'vector', not as in graphics but as in share of the market, and 'capital' as in 'how much profit can we make'. We, Bryce users, are a drop in the bucket for companies like this, and I believe our voice will go unheard, they didn't buy Corel out because the numbers on Bryce were in the hundred million, and I don't believe they have any plans for further development, they will let Bryce go 'quietly into the night'...Sorry, but that's how I feel, however, I will sign a petition if you think it will do any good...

I will sign the petition. Just point me to the dotted line. :)

I'm up for signing a petition but I would also suggest to them that there are people interested in buying Bryce and if they have no plans for a future for Bryce that they sell it to one of the interested parties. I also think that we should send a post to every Bryce forum on the internet and try to rally every single one of the Bryce community to add their signature. Catlin

Another thing, have you IMed Doc Mojo about this, he may have an interest if he knows what we're doing.

I'm in...............

In light of the fact that Corel no longer employ any of the Bryce programers, as far as I know, a petition would be a waste of effort. It would certaintly make us feel as if we have attempted to save Bryce, but in the final analysis, Bryce is already doomed, at least in the hands of Corel. When BEOS when t*ts up, I witnessed the same, well actually a more feverish reaction from the BEOS users, but once again, the decision had already been made and BEOS is no more. In this and other groups I have seen comments about a new Bryce 6, or perhaps Bryce 5 going gpl and so forth. All pipe dreams. The only realty we have now,is to patiently wait, not get our hopes up and pray that somebody buys Bryce. Even then, if Bryce is bought, it is a strong possibility that it would take at least a year for a full version release, unless of course, all the ex-Bryce programmers bought Bryce, then a release may come quicker. :) If Bryce were bought by another party, one would surmise that Bryce would then be gutted and used in another application. I hope that does not happen, but the learning curve would be quite high for even the most accomplished programmers to sit down and learn the code for something they did not write, which is why Bryce would likely be gutted and smaller routines used in another program. It takes a lot of capital and a good size, experienced team of programmers to handle the complexities of a program the size of Bryce, even if Bryce is bought, and is not gutted, I would not expect anything more that bug fixs for at least a year and a half. BabaLouie

Here's what I've concluded happened with Bryce, ( true or fiction you can decide ). When Metacreations sold off their software, Bryce was one, with no takers, so Meta threw it in as a bartering chip when Corel was interested in the KPT series. It had been about 2 years since the release of B4 and the B5 upgrade was half way in place. So Corel took it and finished the upgrade and released it. A few months latter after one patch the Bryce team at Corel were moved to other departments, leaving no one working or supporting Bryce, ( ever wonder why no one EVER answered your email ). All they had for Bryce was a PR spokes person who could lie through their teeth with a smile on their face. Then Corel became a dead fish in the water, barley able to keep afloat, Vector sees a perfect opportunity to take over for dimes on the dollar. Usually when take over of these sorts happen the employees ( worker bees ) stay in place and upper management is replaced. Since Corel had no worker bees on the Bryce project, there's a good chance Vector will not recoup it. So IMO the best we can hope for is they sell it off ( to somebody who will continue it ). Which is very well possible because they have no real capital invested in it. And a few bucks in the bank is better then killing it off and getting nothing for it. So if the petition says " please sell to Doc Mojo " I'll sign it!!

Shhhhh, keep the secret. No one is going to delete the code, but if there is a perceived market then the price goes up. Doc knows what he's dealing with. If Corel doesn't then that's good for Doc.

I IMed Doc to let him know whats going on here. Hopefully he's still interested in obtaining Bryce and if so now may be a good time to go for it, 'cos he seemed pretty keen last year when we were all discussing how to get Bryce away from Corel. Catlin

Who actualy owns the code to bryce... was it sold to meta or leased was it sold to corel or leased.. who actualy owns this baby..hmmmm

In anyway that Corel and Vector are made more aware of the users of one of their products, and how those users feel about that product...can only be a good thing. Sign me up. AgentSmith

Ken Musgrave would LOVE to be able to buy Bryce, that is a fact. Whether or not he will one day end up with it, is beyond me at this point. But, we have to understand if Doc is able to buy it, it IS the best thing for it. I, at first kinda balked at the idea. I mean, I know Ken is one of the major forces behind Bryce, but as a Bryce lover I did not want to see "My Bryce" be assimilated into MojoWorld, and dissapear, losing its interface I'm SO familiar with. BUT, now I have wrapped my head around it, there is nothng better that could happen to Bryce. MojoWorld is just the continued works of the one guy who is still trying to do today what he was doing back when his arms were still elbow deep in Bryce's code. Bryce needs to go home, and that home is Ken Musgrave. All things change, and so must Bryce if we are to see its "spirit", (if you will) carry on. AgentSmith

Amen AS :) Doc is the best person for bryce at the moment.

Is there any way to get in touch with Ken Musgrave to let him know what we are doing? He might be interested in the outcome of this petition. Catlin

Just curious but what if Bryce became "orphanware" how would that stop you from using the version you currently own and use???. the hand writing is on the wall bryce is very likely a Dead program as far as future developement goes. all the internet petitions in the world wont change that reality.

Wolf the one shining light in this darkness is that Ken Musgrave and Doc Mojo have been interested in getting hold of Bryce for quite some time. These two men were there at the creation of Bryce and I see no reason to think that if they got hold of it they would let it die, and Doc has approached Corel before about buying Bryce from them but at that time they were asking too much. Now that Corel have decided to ditch Bryce it would be sensible to assume that they would rather make some money from selling it. Catlin

Catlin, here's Doc's e-mail; musgrave@pandromeda.com He usually responds quickly and he's a really nice guy too. "Ken Musgrave and Doc Mojo" As far as I know they're the same person :)

I am leary about Doc Mojo taking it over somewhat. As much as I admired his work I couldn't stand MojoWorld .. It was way too complicated and obtuse and anti-Bryce ...

how can you say that? MojoWorld is very logical and structurized. you can keep it as simple as you want. It's way cool. It's bryce's terrain editor taken to the next level and beyond.

It is very unintuitive to me ... Trying to move in it is difficult, trying to find anything you imported is hard, trying to make heads or tails of any of the controls or surfaces or anything is not a breeze. It is too logical and structured to me. Everything is all coordinates and math and isn't very fun to me.

Moving is easy on my comp. maybe your vidcard is a little slow? I always work with number and codinates :) I think that's what makes the difference. At first I found the tools confusing, but now after only a couple of days (about 30 hours of mojo-ing and rendering) I already feel much more comfortable.

Well entering where you want to look at by entering coordinates etc is what I meant and it isn't intuitive to me. It is like Bryce for math people to me. Nothing wrng with that but it isn't Bryce to me. I spent about 30 hours beta testing it and then gave up. It was powerful, but just not for me.

you're right when you say it isn't bryce :) And I quess it's indeed a matter of taste.

I didn't know Doc and Ken were/was the same person, how come no-one told me before? I now feel dafter than usual. lol 8) Catlin

Doc calls himself; Ken "Doc Mojo" Musgrave So everyone probably thought you already knew :) Or no-one else knew :)

To further confuse you I have seen his name also made out as "Kent". I believe this was on a book he wrote, or something like that... AS

I'm typing in a hurry, as this just came to my attention and I'm catching a plane presently. (No time to read all the fine posts above!) It's no secret that we've been trying to acquire Bryce from Corel for some time now. So far they've spurned all our offers. There's a limit to how much we will offer (assuming we had a pile of $$ to play with) as there is a crossover point where it would make more sense to take the money and use it to implement "Bryce in a Parameter Bomb" in MojoWorld. Then you could have little "Bryce bubbles" on MojoWorlds. (We think that would make the difference between the two technologies rather obvious.) >;^) We also realize that Bryce is largely about it's UI. So we'll keep trying to wrest it from Corel and give it a loving home. Wish us luck! And don't expect to hear from me again for a week... :-) Vacation time! -Mo

Agent Smith: Kent Oberheu was our UI and graphics designer. So "Kent" is not "Ken." :-) -Mo

Ok I'm totally befuddled now, is this split peronalities or what? lol 8)

Attached Link: http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~ebert/Images/TM2e.jpg

I'm so glad Doc, Ken, Kent...hehehe... is still taking an interest. I have put a lot of faith in him finally pulling off a deal with Coral/Vector 'cos I don't think there are many other people who would understand what us Brycers feel for this program and who could take it on to new horizons. Catlin