when I think of it, it starts to get confusing. If we use poser, vickys, mikes and etc, and then we develop those textures and sometimes to sell on marketplace and so on. If we are creating non x-rated or r-rated, though sometimes nudity may occur. Take the activities in renderosity for example like displaying one selling a texture, we might show off vicky nude or selling a skin texture pack and displaying some photo samples, are these considered adult oriented/adult-nature material or pornography?

Personally, I don't think that nudity is, in and of itself, "pornography". The Greek root "porno" literally means "sex", and I have always thought that only nudity which is deliberately designed to be sexually enticing or suggestive is pornographic. Adult oriented? Maybe. Depends on the child and the views of the parents. Some parents aren't bothered by nudity and some are. Nudity is NOT equivalent to sex, and nudity is NOT automatically equivalent to porn. Pornography naturally has explicit nudity, but not all nudity is explict, and not all nudity is sexual. bonni

I agree. Personally I would love to classify adult oriented/adult-nature material and pornography as the 'same thing' Nudity seems sightly different, towards artistic form. But I'm not sure of the stuffs we've been doing are also considered as adult oriented. Maybe the gallery is not an obvious example. The marketplace will a better example, if one sells V3 textures and needs to displays the full vicky nude of course, will it be considered selling something adult oriented. Is there a line between adult oriented and nudity.

Pornography, like art, is in the eye of the beholder

Pornography is indeed in the eyes of the beholder... and when one realises that pornography outsells regular Hollywood offerings every year I'd say a lot of eyes behold it (not that anyone ever admits it). :)

"Is there a line between adult oriented and nudity." Sure. But it varies for every individual. :-) Some people just cannot see any form of nudity without being shocked or offended. Others can look at the most explict sexual material you can imagine are they're not particularly phased by it. Where each of these two people 'draws the line' is going to be different. Mae West said that, "Those who are easily shocked should be shocked more often." I think she was right. ;-) bonni

It must be very hard to use poser without seeing nudity...

I'm getting sick of this debate...this is going to be blunt... First, the whole point.... Take responsibility for yourself..don't come here and throw your beliefs on us...If you don't like something here, leave...period.... This kind of stuff is happening everywhere in our society, especially in the US....if something offends you, bothers you, isn't to your liking...just don't do it, don't go there, don't look at it...start up your own group with your own belief system for yourself and all the others that think and believe as you do. I don't go to porn shops because I don't like to...I don't go in there and demand they cover the pictures because I don't want to see them..but I just love the coffee... Humans are sexual beings. Seeing pictures of sexual nature should not offend anyone. Even religious people have sex, unless you have taken vows against it,...it is part of life. Seeing images of a nude person should not offend anyone. It is life...it is nature. I think somewhere in the bible it says humans were created as a likeness to god....damn, we should be honoring ourselvs...look at us, are not we beautiful beings ???? But...a lot of folks hold those beliefs...and if that be the case, maybe they should not even be here. That is blunt, but if you don't want to see it, perhaps you should not look. Don't throw those temptations in front of yourself. Throw that nasty Poser program in the trash where it belongs...don't come here anymore. Start up a forum for yourselves that can only show fully clothed models...fully clothed images, or landscape renders or something. Design your models with clothes already on.... Throw the damn computer in the trash too...the devil is in there, don't you know ??? This place was set up with specific guidelines---for the art to be exhibited, for the marketplace, etc..there is a TOS page...there are rules... there are nude pictures, etc etc....When you sign in here for the first time, you know or should know what this place is about. If you see or hear something that you don't approve of, perhaps this is not the right place for you...leave. Those breaking the established rules should be dealt with...and they are. and vice versa...you want to create images with nipple rings and nmachines having sex and all that other stuff, go to Renderotica or somewhere similar... And of course there are always some dinks that have to stretch the rules...take them to the brink, or beyond, just to see how much they can get away with with...you guys can get the hell out too. We all have the ability to make decisions for ourselves...we have the brain power to do that. Nobody has to be here, you're not forced.... Accept what you see and get it on. If it isn't your cup of tea...leave...go somewhere else, start your own forum...whatever.... Its just like some dink parents wanting their GIRLS in the BOY SCOUTS...ITS THE BOY SCOUTS..YOU FRICKIN IDIOTS !!!! I better stop, I'm going to lose it any second now.

Amen, Dave-So. :D

There are two kinds of ass-holes in the world: Those who ride my tail in traffic, and those who block me in front. The same applies to art.

dont forget that ONE DAY children or "sooner-not-as-young-than-we-would-like-to-believe" teenagers will EVENTUALLY happen to "grow up", look themselves into a mirror, or see their siblings/parents naked i agree wih the fact nudity is not automatically implying sex, and sex is not automatically porn... it is an old debate, a debate that is totally pointless to dig out from the ground, as neither side (if there are sides, or if there are only two points of view, which i do not believe) will EVER change their mind, and keep their ground mindlessly. it is common to people to deny their own fear, failures and doubt with finding out some banner to burn, some scapegoat, or invent themselves false problems to keep theri mind busy elsewhere... i just am sick about it ! I simply view nudity as part of reality, as part of all of us, and nudity is only a mean, or a tool or a simpel concept, it is neither a problem, a solution or a goal. an example: nudity can be either beautiful or ugly, two faes of a coin... even in "erotic" (not porn) magazines, i saw two "sides", either featuring raw meat in a demeaning, pointless and unpleasant way, or nearly artistic way.. Even eroticism can be art, even erotism is not automatically related to nudity, or sex or porn... See, i am a freak, i sometimes "stick" eroticism to "strawberry" myself :) so it is all nonsense :)

"Is there a line between adult oriented and nudity." "adult oriented" sounds more like the kind of business legalistic term you'd see as in 'No adult oriented businesses allowed,' or you cant use a particular free website for 'adult oriented material.' Unfortunately, the definitions there are going to vary as much as those for pornography. It really depends on whose saying it. Some people would say that a site selling textures using nude images like you mention was adult oriented, some wouldn't. I think virtually everyone would say that using a lot of the images at Renderotica was adult oriented. People are just too funny/emotional/conflicted/irrational about the issue to make any assumptions and the laws are often just as mixed up and dependent on who's in power. Here in the US of A, the current administration is definitely on a moral crusade that will probably get around to snapping up naked Vickies too if it continues much longer. Personally, I find the definition of pornography as appealing to the purient interest pretty unworkable since what stirs one person's libido will leave others offended or just plain bored. As long as only consenting adults are involved, I don't think the government shouuld dictate whether you can have pictures of a bloody, tortured and crucified Jesus on your wall or chocolate covered, naked women, whether anyone thinks that either or both are obscene notwithstanding.

the whole deal blows my mind quite frankly. In one instance its perfectly fine to go into a country and blow the living crap out of it, killing thousands, but its near to hysteria if someone sees a nude body. Or its ok to kill an abortionist, but its wrong to have an abortion because its killing..what the hell kind of logic is this ???? I know this is way beyond the intent of this thread originally, but it all comes from the same screwed up mentality.

exactly... those eyes and lips are rather more appealing or suggesting to me than naked raw meat siliconned bimbo in a centerfold :) Japanese photograph's bikini model shots are rather more sexy too than pure porn or nudity... even strawberry soetimes appeals me more (hey guy you sure have a serious problem about strawberry, get out, you freak :)

Not only are there not just the two sides there are not just the two points of view. Most who like to argue it only argue as if there were just the two sides but the fact is they just can't be bothered to listen to the other view or what is actually being said.
Renderosity has a nudity filter that should work just fine if people would respect it. It's not something new so the fact that this subject comes up so frequently is kind of astounding. I've yet to see anyone go to the forums at Renderotica and have this debate. Why? Because you know going in that it's all about the nudity. Renderosity is much, much more diverse and for some it's not about nudity. And here we have a choice. The filter doesn't affect the viewing of this site unless you change your settings. And anyone who has a problem with the way someone else views this site, (whether the filter is being used for their eyes only) has more than a few problems.

What I'm sick to death of is the assumptions that are always thown around in these discussions. Just because someone uses the filter or is in favor of the filter does not make them a "puritan" or "prude" or any one of the labels others enjoy using without entertaining the facts. I have yet to see someone actually say that they are offended by nudity or that this site should ban nudity or some such nonsense. But to listen to these arguement you'd think that was exactly the exchange. All I've seen is people who want a choice in when to view it. They want to be able to visit this site, at work for example, and not have to worry about the appropriateness of it. I for one enjoy nudity and Renderotica but realise that I can't view these things at work or with people in the room who may be offended. It's called respecting anothers sensibilities.

Like this, Dave: "Or its ok to kill an abortionist, but its wrong to have an abortion because its killing..what the hell kind of logic is this"
It's logic you are creating yourself. Who specifically says it's ok to kill an abortionist? That is not a "logic" that most sane people entertain. To create a black and white situation where one doesn't exist is the reason for the conflicts.

Actually there's a thread somewhere around here where a person said that they think all nudity is porn... :)

I understand what you're saying Kendra. I try to deliberately avoid calling anyone a puritan or a prude though the term does show up here on rare occasions, just like someone used the term pro-nudity fanatic or some such in another post today. Society has become polarized these days with people defining themselves as pro this or that and those who disagree anti. Funny how everyone always manages to define their own view as pro - no one wants to be anti anything. At any rate, folks tend to get touchy either way and the fine art of compromise seems to be lost. As you say, the filters should provide as happy a medium as we are going to get but things still get approved, posted and then deleted for example, because someone complains. Just as you don't hear anyone saying they are offended, obviously, some are, which is fine. I don't hear anyone clamoring for more nudity either, just a desire for everyone to use the filters as they choose and not keep trying to chip away at the edges. I think Dave-So is just expressing a general frustration at what many feel is a relentless effort on the part of some groups who feel they posess the perfect truth to impose that truth on everyone else. maybe it doesn't apply here but sometimes ya gotta rant and this has always been a place where that is pretty much understood and more or less accepted. Apologies to him if I'm misinterpreting but I don't think anyone's being attacked. Strangely enough, I think most of us agree on general principles. If you feel your particular view is being overlooked, you can certainly add it to the mix. Taking anything to seriously in nude vs. "prude" or Mac vs PC or any of these other quasi-religious debates is a waste of time. Still it would be rather boring if they didn't crop up regularly.

Hmmm, well. I can appreciate the beauty of a six year old sitting beside me while I'm playing my keyboard, of a preteen walking and stumbling down the street, the teens with their grace and beauty, and even my sister in law, now in her seventies. Nudity doesn't have to portray or mean sexuality, it's something that some people automatically connect, usually wrongly. As in the case of one little squirrel I used to work with, "How can you guys look at that stuff?" while he couldn't pry himself away from the magazine. Fact is, the opposite sex has an attraction for us, all of us, and the sight of nudity may evoke things that some don't want to be seen. LIke, maybe they're interested, just like everyone else. It's an old taboo, and one that is very slowly crumbling, a visit to any beach compared to the pictures from the victorian era will show this. The US seems to be about the worst paranoid about it, but with the religious right in power, I don't think it's going to improve for a while. It's a shame, there are so many moments that we would all like to preserve forever, but many of them, even fully clothed, are subject to some outdated views of the ones in power. I don't think anyone is really offended by nudity, they're offended that they might respond to nudity in a normal human fashion. As always, the problem isn't the subject matter, it's the way a few will react to it.

Perception is everything. "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves..." - William Shakespeare ------------------------------------------------------------ Sadie and Esther, two elderly widows, are sitting, people-watching, in a Catskill hotel lobby. "You know," says Sadie, "I've been reading this 'Sex and Marriage' book and all they talk about is mutual orgasm. Mutual orgasm here, mutual orgasm there, that's all they talk about. Tell me, Esther, when your husband was alive, did you two ever have mutual orgasm?" "No," says Esther, "I think we had State Farm."

I had another big long winded comeback, but I'm deleting that...the joke threw me off :) :LOL And yes, I wasn't attacking anyone but generalizing...which I guess isn't good :) But I was serious when I said I felt those that don't like what they see maybe shouldn't be here...or not look at certain things. I guess I'll just repeat this portion of what I deleted... Quite frankly, when I really think about it, why should it even make a diff if the stuff is adult oriented or not once you're in here...??? Number 1..if you're an adult and you come here, you must realize there are nude pictures, flagged or not. If you have religious or personal convictions against nudity, I would think you wouldn't even come here. Also, if you have those convictions, I would thin you wouldn't allow your kids to look here either. There is no pornography here, as far as I've seen, I'm sure there is some somewhere, there are 500,000 images)..some erotic art, definitely some penises, and a few vaginas, especially in the MP..mostly in the MP...a whole bunch of breasts...but as pointed out, we all have different views of what is pornographic....so if you think the stuff is pornography, why are you here ??? If you have to worry and think about it, don't post the stuff, dont look at it...if in doubt throw it out..or whatever other cliche fits. So if you're here as an active member, there is no pornography here...adult content...yes. Or you like to look at pornography if you think it is and you don't leave, or perhaps you just don't care either way..then its a non-issue. Is there an explanation to new members what is contained within these galleries? I assume there is, haven't joined since the first time so don't see it... ...maybe folks shouldn't be looking at this stuff while they're at work...unless its part of their job, then the nudity flag probably doesn't matter. If its not part of your job and I was your boss, I'd fire you for stealing my money. During lunch...ok, but as Kendra said, a little sensitvity goes a long way. There are many people in the workplace that don't like to see nudity,

the only thing that upset me are the people whinning/complaining/"crusading" against nudity in each and every use of it, preferably on internet, but who NEVER ever say a word about porno mag's giant adds in front of street's magazine cabins, or bus stop's addvertising, where they just have their children's very head/eyes at the same level of naked frotn breast or something... in fact what i dont like is hyppocrisy and single way moralism... I even stopped asking myself what kind of nudity would be less or more offensive than another, as for people concerned, they ever see ALL form of nudity as porn, and for those who are not heartedly into this debate, they sure woudl say it is just a matter of personnal taste and limite... to be honnest, i even do not understand why i ever tried to "hide" most intimate parts of a naked girl in my last picture, while nudity does not offense me, in fact i am a great addict of nude photograph art (mostly asiate models) myself, and usualyl am not shy or in fear of "crusaders"... It sure must be one last conditionned reflex from the whole ambient psychose ! It just did not take out or bring in anything more or less to my picture, and i should not even have bothered myself to tweak the pose a bit to achieve this result, as people will still always whin , complain and never agree :( i'm on the edge of saying out foul words... from now i will find a counterattack way, means mixing nudity with any other concept, such as humor, so it will take people off balance :) (yeah... right, a mayadoll all naked on a giant strawberry toon, that would be a good start !)

hmmm... i wanted to say to you Dave-so: some culture/religion in this planet view things such as a girl in swimsuit (bikini or even one piece) to be PORN ! (anyway, i admit some swimsuit's photoshots really stimulate me more than centerfold porn :) (don't ask "which" culture/religion, i won't tell). Some minority religions (known as sect because they couldnt have as good a marketing and a monopole on the whiole faith business) view nudity as a part of the religious belief, other see one piec eswimsuit, or sockings, or tshirts as hellish porn... I wish we can find a balanced pov of all this :)

:) Yes..all kinds of different views on what is porn...but it still leaves my focus...if you think a bikini clad women is porn..then you should not look....or if you think a nude woman or man is porn...don't look...Its fine to believe that way, don't take me the wrong way...I'm not trying to tell anyone what to believe..just that if they believe that way, don't try to make me believe the same. If I look or do something that is wrong, I'll take the heat...if I look at some nude women getting wanked by some big ol guy tied to a bed with 15 cheerleaders and 500 bystanders cheering and I get struck down by lightening, then , hey...that's my problem. As long as I'm not hurting anybody by my actions, then leave me alone. I've said this above...here at Rendersoity and other art sites, are a certain form of art...some of it may contain things which are offensive to certain people...it just seems simple to me in my simple mind....why do the majority of the people have to change to comply with some whiners...if you find things are offensive, leave. I surely have some morals...probably pretty high level overall..but some things don't offend me... Kinky and fetish type sex does..I signed up at Renderotica, and quite honestly could not believe some of the images I saw there. Couldn't believe someone could even think of doing that stuff..or even think about it...But I didn't whine or anything because I know that the people there want to see that stuff...instead, I walked quietly out the door and that was that. Simple enough... Porn the same way...I don't mind watching a video of somewhat normal sexual encounters...and I qualify "somewhat" by anything beyond the normal missionary position and sex by more than a couple at a time. I don't watch stuff with bestiality, kiddy porn, fetish/kinky.masochism and all that electrical stimulation stuff etc etc...I wonder about the people that do it...but hey, its their business....not mine. And now you may think, well he must have seen it because he knows about it...yes I have and once was enough :) I guess the whole issue boils down to this, you have the right to think any way you want...and if something isn't right to you, you should not partake. I'm not really sure a debate even needs to take place about that. How many times have I said that :)LOL Up above there, millman....I love to have my kids around too when I do stuff, not saying you do this, but just as example--- but I wouldn't be surfing Renderosity with them there if I felt they may see something that they shouldn't. I know there are nude pics here, some violent pics, and some other stuff that they probably don't need to see...so to me, there is no problem with what is here at Renderosity or any other site...because I take my parental responsibility and avoid the situation. When I go to a site that doesn't sit well with me, I don't go there anymore...

and one more thing...If you want to come her or anywhere, and someone sees you surfing at nude pics which you happened to stumble across because someone forgot the nude filter, why not take on the repsonsibility to yourself and think about the fact YOU were the one that went there in the first place.

Yup, but it could be worse. You could live in a town, as I do, founded by the Mormons, with not one, but two nudist camps right outside of the city limits. I used to have a standing invitation to visit one of them, but never found the time to take them up. Not only that, my brother in law lived on the hill right behind the camp. There are two strong factions in town, one that wants the camps closed, and the other that says "It's their land, they can do what they wish as long as it's not where outsiders can see it." I've seen far more erotic things at the beach at the state park. Probably the best one I've seen was the fellow protesting the lack of a dress code at the local high school, and taking notes using the latest "Hustler" to write against. Ummm, yeah.

The six year old is the daughter of a girl that my daughter attended kindergarten with. Doesn't matter much, She's a cute kid, one that I wouldn't mind having come more often. I don't surf the net when they're here, the kids are a lot more fun than the net. I don't cruise the porn sites, most of them want money or they send you to "Javaland" with their javascript links. I don't spend a lot of time at rotica, but have been there. Even erotica has it's place either commercially or as art, but there's damn little art there. I think most people that dabble with the arts have taken their turn there, but, as I have, not saved any of it. The ones I've saved to look at later have all fallen to the delete key the next day. In case you're confused about the "keyboard", it's a Yamaha DGX-500, the musical kind. Working on the computer when someone else is around doesn't work. Rich

Nice to hear that. Was looking for webhost to host some poser stuffs, they said no adult-oriented and wanted you to pay 1 year upfront, and if you don't follow restrictions, they can close your account. I don't intend to put those x or r-rated stuffs but I was wondering if there was mention of usual poser stuffs are considered as adult-oriented. But I guess it shouldn't though :p