Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=536648&Start=1&Artist=PapaBlueMarlin&ByArtist=Yes

chuckle Well of course Papa. You seriously cramped someones potential thrill for the day! LMAO BTW: Great image. Nice pose.

Are you sure that was a flame? Maybe s/he was saying that censorship sucks in general. I dunno, a one-word comment doesn't offer much context, but at least they didn't say "I don't take you seriously because you're just a Barbie doll Poser 'artist'" as someone did to me recently in an instant message. :-) Anyway, you're a good artist. You know you don't suck. If that person was trolling, ignore 'em, or let the gallery mods know. They're great about removing abusive comments if you contact them and provide the URL to the image.

I don't know. Maybe its just me, but if I was going to critique someone else's work I would be a little more descriptive... especially if I were commenting on the content rather than that person's talent.

Yeah, you're right PBM. Just the word "sucks" alone is rude. I was just trying to figure out what they meant, because the image obviously doesn't "suck."

LOL.. reminds me of a playboy mag that I did up with duck tape and wrote over for my husbands birthday one year. After he'd lied to me about something. LMAO.......humm this woman never gets mad she just gets even! too funny! good work nice texture, what texture did you use? I like it. --Essie

Well, I'm glad you posted this, because I'm glad I got to see the image. It's a really well executed concept, IMHO. I wouldn't pay too much attention to single-syllabic insulting comments. Just consider the source and move on. ;-) bonni

that is a shame that is a great image and great message ignore those that flame like that

I guess I see things differently...know the poster and a flame seems out of character. I took it to be sucks because an apparently fine picture was marred. But who knows the motive? I do like the statement you are making here [and maybe I am also misreading that?!!], but in my book, which few people read, I believe the only acceptable type of censorship is --- self-censorship. And that should apply to viewers as well as artists.

Doh! Accidently deleted my reply to this thread. Don't feel like retyping it all. The gist of it was: It happens. Sooner or later you're bound to see a comment that's like "eh whatever." At least, that's my reaction when it happens. YMMV.

Well, I assume when you put out that image, you were looking for a reaction. This pic is a bit on the political side. So when this kid looked at it and got disappointed, that might have been his/her reaction. Not all have the same sense of humor as us. Was that a flame, if it was, was it justified? Take a look at the any gubernatorial, or presidential campaign, and you'll seen a lot more mud slinging and flaming. I just wanna say if you are going to put out controversial "art" you are bound to get some "heat". Just my 1 cent..Sorry, couldnt afford 2, the economy is still sluggish.

I understand your POV, JVRenderer. I really don't mind members criticizing my work, but I think the comment could have been a little more constructive.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=536955&Start=1&Artist=karen1573&ByArtist=Yes

I've gotten flamed here, too. I posted an image a while back of a local landmark, a quite interesting geological feature not far from where I live. It was basically a lanscape picture, and I quite liked it (it's still on my personal site, but I removed it from Renderosity). I got flamed for 1) putting a subtle but visible "signature" watermark on it (which I do with ALL my images, but nevermind that) and for 2) posting "tourist pics" (I'm not a tourist, I live here!) Some people are just arseholes, simple as that. No point worrying or wondering about it. It's just a fact of life, unfortunately. bonni

pfff what really piss me off is about people throwing yu in the face you did not model the things yourself... alredy discussed in various 'poser is not art' thread.. poser is a tool, figures we downlaod for free or buy are tools too, tha's all. It still requires some skills and imagination very speific to poser to mix up all ingredients into something nice to see. i kno wmodellists that cannot make good use of the thngs they model themselves. And if you would be to learn all parts of the work involved in poser, sure you must know to set lights, poses, postwork, draw photorealistic textures yourself, model thousands fully posable polygon figure yourself, oh and did i mention you should not be allowed to use poser without shame unless you can program/code a 3d software yourself ? makes sense if you push the idea to its limit... if we all do that, well rosity market place, daz and curious lab can go and die :) i wont even put the stress on how much such kind of statement/flames makes me very angry !

i just toss in the air an idea, sure it may be drastic, but we can meditate on it: only people with actual gallery pictures in their member profile should be allowed to leave comments, means only people who actually had to struggle with all the artmaking process using poser, and who have clear examples of what they do... i know it sounds a bit harsh, but just keep it under the hand would such flaming behavior become even more frequent and dull !

well... i think i'll go now and insult some restaurant's cook because he did not grow himself the vegetables he used in a dish :) (sorry about sarcasm, couldn't help !)

Rikkodun: That is not harsh it's a bloody good idea. So far every comment I've had on my gallery images have been constructive and nearly all if not all of the artists commenting have doen some poser images - I'm always stoked when I get a positive and constructive comment. Your idea is a good one becuase it would mean that the comments being made are by people who actually know the time and effort involved in creating any poser image. As for my thoughts on the Puritanical Trolls? Well after reading the comment karen1573's image - I can't write what I think cuz it's a touch abusive!! That is a great image, I get a little narked by muppets who think that the only art is that done using industry strength and phenominally expensive proggies. As someone who is trying (and failing) to do some modelling for soem pro bono work I've found that not everyone is gifted with great modelling talents. If people were to only use models they'd done themselves then the world or 3DCG art would be a very barren and limited place. Anyone who says that a Poser scene (I can spend taking 7 odd days to complete a scene at times) is a narrow minded puratine and I challenge them to use Poser and /only/ Poser and the models available to buy/download for free to create an image, if they can't or won't do it then they have no right to pass comment. I'd apologise but I get ill natured when I read that a talented artist has been flamed by a narrow mind Troll. It's as a result of these talented people that I a) have figures etc to use and b) am inspired to create some of the scenes I do. /end rant :oD takes a breath

"only people with actual gallery pictures in their member profile should be allowed to leave comments, means only people who actually had to struggle with all the artmaking process using poser, and who have clear examples of what they do..." I disagree. This is pretty much the equivalent of a public gallery, and as such, we should be prepared to put up with comments from members of the public, even if they are at times idiotic and mean spirited. That's not to say such comments should be tolerated by TPTB, but that we cannot expect to be cocooned in a world where all comments are either complimentary or constructive. Maybe it's just me, but I believe in my work enough to not give a damn if it gets flamed. On the other hand, all the comments I have received so far have been either complimentary and/or constructive.

re: Riddokun's idea....it sounds good on the surface but I'd be against it. Some people just aren't good at any sort "artistic" endeavor, be it painting, drawing, writing, etc. Does that mean that these people don't know good art if/when they see it? It's the old question of can only an artist recognize good art? It comes up here from time to time as well as in other forums where art and creative pursuits are the focus. I'm not a very good freehand artist. I can draw recognizable shapes and occassionally even produce a decent drawing. But I won't ever be making a living as an illustrator. Does that automatically invalidate any opinions I might have on someone else's artwork? I don't think so. I've gotten some whacked comments on my images before. One in particular I just found...strange. It's happened to quite a few of us I imagine. Some people suggest that comments from people without galleries should just be ignored or dismissed. Here's something to ponder: would you likewise ignore a POSITIVE comment from someone who didn't have a gallery here? Mind you I'm not saying that some people don't deserve to be ignored. There are people who are genuine A-holes, who just don't have anything worthwhile to contribute. All I'm saying is that I personally wouldn't use a gallery (or lack thereof) as a basis on which to make a decision.

Well it MUST be, coz I modeled it all myself LOL Wait. The holly leaves are a PSP tube. And I didn't invent the font myself, so.. hmm... I guess it's not art anyway :o( But it's a cute soon-to-be-free birdy ;o)

I think the point being made is that if people are going to flame an artists gallery they should be prepared to put up or shut up. Criticism be it good or bad is always a good thing as long as it's constructive I let friends of mine who aren't R'osity members see my work and they give different feed back on my wor all of it honest and not always "ooo I just love it", quite a few folk have picked out favourites and sed why they like one over the other.

I welcome comments from anyone - but pointless flaming with absolutely no thought about what's being sed - or Opening one's mouth and letting one's stomach talk - is unwelcome and un necessary.

And HEY trekkie, you didn't write the software yourself! Loser!!!! And the operating system, jeez, and that PC you're using, that was built by somebody else, and the chair you're sitting on and the clothes you're wearing (if you're wearing any) I mean, Come ON!!! :] Fish fullashit :o) Oh and I love the birdy!

I don't think you have to be an artist to critique art. Do you have to be a filmmaker to write a movie review? Some of the most insightful comments I've ever gotten have come from art lovers who are non-artists. However, I do think the artist should have the ability to moderate the comments posted to his or her gallery. Merchants get to decide if comments posted about their products are seen or not. Why shouldn't artists get the same privilege?

LOL @ fish

don't get me wrong, i knew it was harsh and a bit narrow minded, but i just thorwn it as an idea... I often got comment from people whom i go and check the gallery, only to see they are really more advanced than i am, and so i am glad either to hear from them or even begin to talk with them about that. I know it is public gallery, but i guess there is a middle instead of the two extremes(trolls or closed galleries) it was just a base to meditate i wanted to bring in. another idea would be, for NON artists, to make at least CONSTRUCTIVE comments, and back them up with another gallery image of someone else who in fact mastered the aspect the initial commented artist done wrong. Means you are no artist, have no gallery, you give your point ov view on an image, oki fine, but i would rather liek the person flaming or getting bad review (especially if it is deserved) if he points me out as some pictures he saw, with the aspect he is pointing at, being done good !

The "you didn't model it yourself so it's not art" people have galleries, so requiring people to have galleries to comment wouldn't keep them out. Plus, the trolls already sign up in order to troll. They'd probably just steal other people's art if having a gallery were required. Heck, it could become an all-new way to troll. I really think moderation is the only solution. Or at least, giving artists the choice. We already have the choice of allowing comments or not. Why not allow us to moderate the comments or not? Like the merchants do. A simple approve or disapprove, no editing of comments or anything.

Hey PapablueMarlin, I first appologize as I did not mean the comment as a flame at the time I posted it, nor do I ever intend to hurt or flame anyone. I am truly sorry. I meant it at that wee hour I posted it as a commentary on censorship, which I thought you were making a statement on with this image. I should have elaborated and said, "Censorship sucks" The pic is actually excellent dude! I am sorry my wierd humor was only understood by me, my bad! bbratche

P.S. I've gotten flamed myself, and I don't wine about it, I simply allow it and go on, or reply to it to see just what they meant. Besides they removed the comment for you anyway, which I would have done if I knew it was actually taken as a flame or hurtfull. bbratche

I'm not sure if the mods are deleting "my" troll's comments or if he's removing them. Anyway I have to explain that his first comment was "You should be praying for some talent" ( in response to the picture's title) which actually is above the usual troll standard, wit-wise! I just thought I would explain why we're talking about the old, old "You didn't model it yourself so it's not art" whinge - that's the tack he took in another couple of comments. His latest comment is priceless. I asked why he visited the Poser gallery if he didn't think the program was of worth. His reply: "cause the boobs give me a little stiffy." ... <- speechless! Let's be honest, sometimes trolls can be entertaining! Anyway... I think comment is worthwhile whether it comes from someone with a gallery or not. The type of work they do might affect how I view their comment - if they are an excellent artist for postwork, and they comment that they felt that any painted effects I'd done could use some work, then I'd take that seriously. If I don't have anything to judge that person by, then I can just look at their comments objectively. The point is, comments should be constructive. Even when I leave a positive comment, I try to say what it is that I like. It's so helpful to me. Just like Nevermore said... Let's be honest, my picture is not going to win any awards and I didn't spend that long on it (about 6 hours, which isn't long for me at all!) If he'd left that comment on some other pieces of which I am (I think justly) proud, I'd have been hurt. As it is... ah, who cares? It's just one more arsehole in a world which is sadly full of them. PS PapaBlueMerlin I'm sorry I hijacked your thread!

I've never been flamed before...it must mean I suck because my image didn't make someone jealous..LOL! Sometimes I think that's what it is. Some people get jealous about other's work and the nice comments they get. I guess it makes the trolls feel inadequate about themselves so they post a flame to boost thier petty egos. This comment about the "stiffy" is very interesting. LOL!!!! Karen, you just keep those pictures coming. I think you do fantastic work! Let the trolls stay under the bridge and have thier LITTLE "stiffy" parties....LOL!!!

Apology accepted bbratche. The thing about a one-word comment sometimes is that it can come across as a personal attack rather than a comment on the content of an image. Every once in a while you have people who troll the galleries because they dislike poser art in general. And they typically seem to comment on several artists rather than just one. I was not trying to whine about it, but just point a post that seemed odd in case someone else noticed the same thing.

Karen: no problem with the thread. I liked your image. I think we can all agree there was nothing ambigous about that person's message...

LOL@one-word comments...sometimes I wonder if people think I get a bit carried away and too long-winded on my comments. But I like to point out exactly what it is I like about the picture when it applies. At times I have actually been IM'd by the artist thanking me for pointing out something they had not even noticed in their own work. Any mild criticism [constructive IMO] that I give always follows the positive veiwpoint. Of course I am not beyond short 2-word comments such as: "cute butt", or "nice boobs", but please spare me the "beautifuls", "wonderfuls", and "wows". [Whoops, I am guilty of those also, but usually try to follow up with why I think those terms are applicable.] I don't take my attempts at art seriouslly, so don't get too upset when others don't. I enjoy all comments whether in the form of constructive criticism, general comment...or even positive one-word critiques made with diplomacy. I have never had any actual flames but am sure if I produced more work it would happen....and all I can say about hecklers and physchos is that in life, "assholes happen".

Yeah after posting it and thinking about it with some sleep I realized I'd have been a little pissed myself pal. I truly meant no offence to your art or you, but did actually mean to agree with what I think the point was that you were trying to make, that censorship "SUCKS"! And from now on I will explain every comment, or simply not leave one and no more one word comments. I really meant to agree with your message and in my mind I was finishing your statement...Censorship...see what I mean, oh well. also the comment about whinning was meant to say, (man I need to catch up on some sleep before I post, long 13 hour shifts as a supervising RN is actually what sucks!) that I usually will seek clairification just in case before starting a thread, or drop it altogether. I've been hit by the poser trolls myself because of all the nudity I use and even the National Geographic style pics with kids. So I undersatand. Peace be with you in the circle of life Wolfman aka bbratche

Lol, it's understandable. I usually cringe when hitting the "submit" button. :) I'll delete my comment up towards the top of this since it doesn't apply.

@ karen1573
Your trolls comments weren't deleted, the software overwrites the previous comment in favor of the new one. On the other hand, the artist is able to make as many comments on their own image as they want. Its been that way for as long as I can remember. :o)

Oh thanks for that bshafer, I never knew that!

well all i can say is that such incident and threads just frigthen me to even dare to put a comment on a picture... call it guilt or somethin :)

Riddokun, there is nothing wrong with leaving comments. There is nothing wrong with leaving a critique which isn't entirely favorable. Just make sure that your statements are constructive and that your point comes across clearly :)

well it is hard to keep oneself clear and constructive without spreading lines of texts :)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=541901&Start=1&Artist=PapaBlueMarlin&ByArtist=Yes

Keep it censored;')