Koshi, LaRoo, now that ToonGal, next Dark Whispers Sara, oh and coming soon Steph 2 UGH!!!!!!! There is something to be said for having choices, but when it comes to naked female toons, or limited clothing options UGH!!!! withing 3 months of each other ToonGal, soon toon guy, The Freak, Steph2 soon, Sara soon, LaRoo just a bit ago. I'm finding that all these models are sitting on my HD and not being used cause there just aint enough out there for all these models. Market is flooded. okay I know I'm rambling and ranting but I'm finding that my money is staying with me a)cause there aint much to spend it on to support each model b)I'm overwhelmed cause if I like 1 model there isn't enough support, switch to a different one and it's the same situation. Am I alone in this delema? Or are others noticing the same kinda thing?

try just picking your favorite and just buy for that. Just because a character is available doesn't mean you have to buy it. Besides with that many new characters coming out only one or two will last for long, the rest will be soon forgotten.

I don't have any of these characters and consequently am not troubled by the lack of clothing for them.

I think MachineClaw's point is that you can't even stick to a model and only by things for that - because there isn't enough stuff to buy to outfit the model properly! I agree with most of what MC says. After the initial (obligatory?) nude poses with a figure, you really want to put them to use in more complex and interesting situations, most of which require clothes. Sexual fantasies aside - there are not many scenes that can be depicted with only naked chicks with a few hundred chest morphs and maybe a stocking texture... This has become especially obvious to me since I bought Michael 3 and started making scenes with two and more characters in them. After adding the first few characters, there is not enough stuff around to make additional characters look different enough! The scenes end up looking like a family reunion where everybody has been buying the same clothes from the same store. So apart from ranting, what is there to do? If you have the time, skill and tools, a few textures of your own goes a long way if you can find a reasonably good piece of clothing to start from. That is what I'm doing now. For Mike and Vicky, there is always PoserWorld, for a bunch of good "genereal purpose" stuff. If I had the time and the tools I'd probably be doing some clothing objects of my own, but that will probably remain a dream for some time...

I don't have any of thoes models. But I agree with you on the clothes, hair, etc. Vic2 to Vic3 and Mike2 to mike3 has cost me a lot. Then the Mil vicky girls, which there is not enough of, anywhere. I bought all the new Mike stuff. Now I ask myself Why? I very seldom use men at all in my pictures. And at this time all the new and old mike clothes and poses are sitting outside of Poser. Need the room and when I do want to use him it's easy to put everything back. I do leave everything in the Geo, file, and textures in textures. The above is right, Buy what your really going to use. I must take that advice myself. :O)

I mostly use V3 and the Milgirls. The girls don't have enough to wear, but if you look real hard.... I don't own any of the "new" characters or M3 and can't say that I miss them. I like looking at pictures people have made using them, but it ends there. I also keep V2 around cause alot of her textures can be used on the girls.

Having a lot of female models is not such a bad thing, but when they all start asking you things like "what are you thinking?" or "Does this armor make look fat?" then you have a problem.

PikeWake thank you for commenting in a more intelligent way. that is indead what I was trying to say. V3 and M3 at least have the V3/V2 and M3/M2 so I can outfit them and just use the head morphs.

You can also use some ingenuity and make other clothes appear to fit for stills. With about 10-15 minutes of effort, I can get Koshini clothes on Vic. Here's a quick and dirty explanation: Parent the clothes to the figure. Scale as needed to get it to roughly fit. Pose the character. Apply the same pose to the clothing. Tweak so it covers up as much as possible. Turn body parts invisible that poke through the clothing. If you have body parts that would make a mess if turned invisible (the clothing is only supposed to cover part of that body part), render the scene once with the poke throughs, and another time with the body parts invisible. Import both renders into a photo editing program and composite together. Hopefully you'll see a more in-depth version of this at DAZ within a few days. Cheers!

Well, I know that you're going to hate my answer, but learn to make clothes. There's enough tutorials on how to do it.

This problem is just never going to go away so there is only one solution I can suggest (a suggestion I have yet to take myself but I'm going to!) Learn to paint your own clothing in Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Painter, etc. A few reference books wouldn't hurt and one I think is excellent is Dynamic Wrinkles and Drapery by Burne Hogarth. (Watson-Guptill Publications - ISBN 0-8230-1587-4). Another useful tome for painting in general is Digital Character Design and Painting by Don Seegmiller. (Charles River Media - ISBN 1-58450-232-0) Of course, there are many others along with numerous tutorials to be found on the web. There are numerous advantages to such an approach, not the least of which is the good health of your bank account. Even better, you will not be swathing your figures in the same off-the-rack clothing and hair as everyone else. Sometimes perusing the gallery is like attending a party where everyone buys from the same clothing stores. Even better, better, better- no more body poke-through, everything automatically conforms, no more stretching texture maps and so on and so on and so on. Yeah... I'm going to have to start doing this... real soon now... - Jack

A question for everybody-- do you feel there's a good market for regular, ordinary, street-type clothes-- the kind of thing you'd wear to the office or other real-life situations? I do 3D modeling and have some things in the DAZ store. I noticed that about 95% (at least) of the things for Michael3 and Vicky3 are all "fantasy" stuff, and there's very little in the way of realistic clothing. I was thinking of trying to fill that gap, but the broker said that there is far more demand for the fantasy stuff than there is for realistic stuff. Maybe he's wrong? Would appreciate any feedback and thoughts on this.

...do you feel there's a good market for regular, ordinary, street-type clothes... Under the influence of absolutely no great authority at all I'd have to guess... no. I'm sure there is a market but it would probably consist mostly of those who use Poser in some sort of professional capacity requiring "every day" scenes or figures. Your biggest hurdle may be finding these users. By far the larger market is comprised of those who do the type of work you have already noticed in the on-line galleries. I would hazard that the majority of these people do this type of thing as a hobby- for fun. Now when people want to play they don't want to be reminded of the office or the next door neighbour who is perceived to be dull. They want excitement, adventure, a change of pace- boredom they can get at home and for free. Hence the considerable preference for fantasy and science fiction imagery endemic on-line. This style is not my preference but I escape into surrealistic fantasies- not a good clothing market either. I suppose this is a long way of saying the same thing as your broker. Fantasy rules- realism sucks. (at least when it comes to the Poser modeling business) Sorry I couldn't give you the answer I suspect you wanted. - Jack ps The Sims computer games seem to be a complete contradiction to the above. I confess I have no idea why it is so apparently popular. Maybe it's because people can take virtual revenge upon humdrum normality?

Hey, I'm working on some! LOL!! I ran into the same thing with Neftoon gal.. nuthin fer her to wear! I downloaded the freebie clothes, but they left LOTS to be desired! I grabbed the neftoon clothes pack, and it's got basics, but I wanted more exotic kinda outfits, so I figured I'd try to make one. I'm working on UV mapping a dress now.. I'l post another thread on this here.. I got a uv map done, did a test texture, but it's tiled very small on the dress.. and it needs to be 1:1 instead. It's always something! I think models really should come with some basic items... a catsuit, a shirt, pants, shoes of some kind, hair and a texture, even if it's low res and very basic. And they shouldn't all be add-ons... you start out with a $10-$20 figure, and by the time you have basic items, you've spent $100! I don't spend that on clothes for myself! (Yeah I can hear ALL the female replies now! LOL!!) I kinda like the project Sixius has going on.. freebie models, and encouraging a community to build on the figures. Gareee.. still with a naked Freak.....

Well, there's Maya Doll, who seems to be off to a start on clothing, tho most of it seems to be..err..well, I have a point, but the way I wear my hair you can't tell..;) Thank heavens I still have Posette..;) no lack of duds there..;)

i got same problem as i am a user of mayadoll and anime doll... though i think (believe) both bear some common points with V1 lowres anyway.. and i saw a method to adapt v2 clothes on mayadoll... (but the method was very technical and complex for me and required the tailor that i dont have) i also saw many peopel using v2 cloths on her for still renders (hopefully i dont plan making animation), such as sudi armor... A friend also told me there was a trick for using v2 clothes on v3 only enaming/editing parts of the .cr2 or something. Coudl someone detail the method a bit (tutorial) and tell if/how it can be used with mayadolls ? crescent method seems helpful and i thought about one similar to this: loaw a v1 lowres, parent her to the charater, turn her invisible, and conforme v1/v2 clothes on her, with same pose as the initial character. souns pretty similar but a bit heavier than crescent advice. I dont know but can you "conform" a character to another if they bear enough common points regarding part names and jointsparameter or something like that ? would it work ?

Vs includes a figure that will take V1/2 clothing and V3 head morphs, Vicki 3 to Vicki 2, and V2 includes a similar figure with the V2 head but able to wear Posette clothing.

But witching heads doesn't do us much good if you want a non super-model body, and want to be able to dress him/her. And I am one of the three will will buy any real life clothes around, and in real life sized people. Phil C. has created sets with morphs...I think I love him. (But I'm torn between him and Steve of Poswerworld). :)

If you put Anime Doll's head (or whatever model's head) onto V3's body, you can use the V3 morphs to make the figure less supermodelish in appearance. Switching heads, though time consuming initially, is great if you plan on using the results over and over again, especially if the body has a good range of clothing and clothing morphs. If you use clothing that has morphs to make the clothing look more like real world sizes, then you can use my parent/pose description above to fit the clothes around the character. Heck, it's actually easier to use clothing that's shaped for real people and pose it around a skinny model than vice versa. Would anyone be interested in a Pose file to make all but the head invisible for different characters? (And if so, which character(s)?) It's more resource intensive to have 2 figures in the scene (or 2 figures per character) but it's easier than switching heads, which involves messing with .cr2 files, etc. Cheers!

That word in my whine was "switch" and not "witch." I'm suffering from a sticky keyboard....sigh. Unfortunately, there are a lot of clothes without the real world morphs. But I'm going to try your technique, Crescent. It's a good idea for someone who is a non-animator. :)

Crescent: In #9 above your 4th step is "Apply the same pose to the clothing". Please explain what you mean. How that step or steps in done. Maybe I'm not understanding. Thank you :-)

Strixowl, what Crescent meant was this: 1. Select your character (V3 for example) and apply a pose from the Pose library. 2. Now select the body of the clothing item and click the same pose from the library. The clothes should now be in approximately the same position as the model. Of course, if you are making a new pose yourself, then you'd need to get the model in position and then save that pose to the library, so you can then apply it to the clothing item. Hope that helps :)

It's a problem. Every new Poser model/figure requires its own corresponding new set of clothes/hair/props. If one has a limited budget, then this can be a real source of difficulty. Poser is an expensive hobby. Hey, I've known true audiophiles that spent $30,000 or so on their stereo systems. Or fishermen who spend around $50,000 on a bass boat. The way I see it, by comparison, Poser is cheap at the price. I have TONS of Poser stuff on my HD's. And I have a network with many, many gigs of storage capacity (I also do photography and video -- so I need the space). How much of all these Poser goodies do I actually end up using? Not a very high percentage, I must admit. But I keep buying commercial stuff and downloading free stuff. And why? Because it's fun. It's that simple. I like options, and I like variety. The more models, the more clothes, the more hair, the more STUFF FOR POSER that comes on the market -- the better.

And, yes.....in answer to blondie9999's question -- I definitely would like to see more real-world clothing, props, etc. Even fantasy scenes sometimes require "real" stuff.

I'd like to add some support for the "ordinary" stuff too. I completely agree with jval on the point that most of us "hobbyists" prefer the flashy fantasy, sci-fi or fetish stuff, but if you're anything like me there comes a point when you want to add a personal touch to your renders. The fantasy outfits are often great looking, but with their strange (and gravity-defying) cuts and improbable accessories, they are often very distinctive, even if you add your own textures. You can immediately say "Ah, that's the 'Conforming Skimpy Latex Barbarian Armor' by DroolSmith" when you see a render using those clothes. If you start with a simpler design, e.g. a plain shirt or skirt, it's a lot easier to add an interesting texture and some accessories of your own. Another great use for the "bread-and-butter" items are for "extras" in your scenes. Noone is going to notice a spectacular outfit if everyone else is wearing something at least as outrageous. Try making a scene where your hero(ine) is wearing the cool stuff and everyone else is wearing t-shirts and jeans and you'll see what I mean. It really adds dynamics to your composition. As a final note: A lot of people can afford good and easy-to-use paint software for textures, while a lot fewer can cough up the money for an equally good and easy-to use 3d modeling tool. That is the reason I say "Learn to make your own textures" rather than "Learn to make your own clothing models" to anyone who wants to go beyond the standard stuff.

this is a long standing problem with poser that has only gotten worse. First, there was P4. All the clothes were included, fit and there was a large selection of versatile clothing that were equally suited to realism and fantasy. Then vicky 1 came out. There was a large clothing pack that made up a whole wardrobe of equally versatile clothes. Things got better with the morphing abilities of V2 and her morphing clothing pack. Somewhere along the line V3 came out, and all hell broke loose. There are no more clothing packs. Everything is a la carte, expensive and extremely specific in their fantasy design with little or no potential for realistic style renders. To me the beauty of poser has always been simplicity. If I need to make something complex, theres the higher end apps. What ends up happening is you get stuck with a bunch of morphed-out textured up figures who can't wear any clothes and basically just run around naked, posing in temples with swords. My advice is learn magnets and make your own textures. I havent been thrilled with the results I've gotten from the tailor. It kinda irks me that merchants put out figures and don't take into account that people might actually want these figures to wear clothes. If you make your own morphs with magnets at least you'll never have to sit there endlessly while tailor distorts the clothing with a bunch of ill-fitting morphs.

blondie9999 asked: "do you feel there's a good market for regular, ordinary, street-type clothes" I would say "yes", there is. PhilC makes some great stuff and there seems to be an increase of more average looking clothing at DAZ of late. The same can be said of "average looking people". I'm seeing more products of older people and "normal looking" people versus the model types. For that, I'm grateful. But like everything else, there is only so much of a market for this type of thing, so if you have something, I would suggest making it available.

Yes I like basic clothing, yet with material zones so I can make tshirts out of a shirt model etc. pants into shorts etc. makes it very nice. I agree about the clothing included with a model, if every model came with a bodysuit when you bought it with all the morphs for that character, lots of "looks" could be created out of the box instead of naked holding hands over parts. I've tryed painting clothing in post, and I'm just not that good yet, it's a last resort. I'm a big fan of PhilC's 1.99 specials been satisfyed every time. Poserworld, one word lifetime haha err well as soon as my current expires. Daz currently has on the shelf Steph 2, She-Hulk, Sara and a couple of others I've read about non of the clothing interchangable. clothing makers, the good ones, like to make clothing for the models that they like, and why wouldn't they. this spreads the playing field thin for not well supported models even if the model has that one thingy ya like or need about it. as for modeling, I'm fighting lightwave daily and so far it's winning, trust me if it was as easy as making my own clothing for a model I'd setup a store and start modeling and sellin, I'm not even in that ballpark.

karen1573, Thank you for your answer above. Will give it a try :-)

Too many female characters and not enough clothing... and the complaint would be what, exactly?

JohnRender wrote: "Too many female characters and not enough clothing... and the complaint would be what, exactly?" I think you'd probably be able to answer that question yourself had you read the 29 posts before yours. but I'll recap for ya. Too many models not enough clothing. More models coming out, so more models more money less clothing. some fine people have offered various solutions to the problem, very fine advice if you have the skills to acheive them. If you do not have the skill set to create your own clothing, paint clothing on renders, then not having clothing is frustrating.

Mmmm... I think perhaps John Render was suggesting that he did not find a multitude of unclad women to be particularly problematic... grin... - Jack

MC, I think you're missing the irony in JohnR's comment...at least I took in a Man Show kinda humor...

ahhhh. I'm not a fan. of the show. Like nakedness real not virtual.

I think rather then more characters coming out, I'd much rather see conversions of existing clothing packs for the existing characters, and more morph packs come out for them as well. Puppet was a great expansion for the Koshini character, and LLF just released the Darker Magic set for Koshini.. good steps in the right direction! BTW is it just me, or am I the only one that thinks Laroo is a little odd? I love her eyes, but I'd never really seen a nice smiling expression on her. Not enough head morphs??

I think rather then more characters coming out, I'd much rather see conversions of existing clothing packs for the existing characters, and more morph packs come out for them as well. Puppet was a great expansion for the Koshini character, and LLF just released the Darker Magic set for Koshini.. good steps in the right direction! BTW is it just me, or am I the only one that thinks Laroo is a little odd? I love her eyes, but I'd never really seen a nice smiling expression on her. Not enough head morphs??

Compared to the women I see around me Koshini, Laroo, Trixie, Neftoon, etc all look a little odd! LOL! - Jack

Strange, sometimes on the bus, I think Koshini, Laroo, Neftoon, etc. are the normal looking ones! But maybe that's because I sit behind someone who has their entire head shaved and tattoo'd like a rainbow and has 15 ear piercings on each side. I keep thinking: ouch! And, yes, I'm afraid to see if the person is male and female. And, no, I do not want to see this person naked in either case. Clothes....I definitely prefer clothes to nudity!