How much talent does it take to buy a poser or other 3D model to place in a scene? Not much, considering that the amount of time and effort that it takes to create (model, map, bone, pose, and perfect) the model is bypassed and hence is the "easy" way. The people winning contests because they have the money to purchase expensive characters to place within a scene do not deserve the full prize they win, but should share the prize with the original artist who had created the model to begin with. Let me explain why I feel this way. I love 3D art. I love the feeling I get when I complete a scene that I work on. I have my own library I am building that I have absolutely no 3rd party objects in. Its taking me a very long time to build this, as well as effort. My wife hates that I do this, but she understands why I do. Now, with that said, I must ask this question to all those people whose work is 100% their own. . ."Are we wasting our time and effort?" Let me ask this on a different level. . . "If someone were to plajorise, lets say, Mark Twain for four or five chapters in a book, does he deserve to win a writing award?" I believe people that enter 3rd party models, or rather renderings thereof, are guilty of just that wether or not they offer credit to the original artists. As far as the money they shell out, this is an ARTISTS site. Not a site for THOSE WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO BLOW ON EXPENSIVE MODELS. Those who put 100% of their own work into their images, I hope, will add to this forum and hopefully we can get the rules changed for all contests. In my opinion, this should especially apply to models and textures, and not so much with post-work filters (such as lens flares and blur). Please reply with your thoughts.

Here we go again...

Now where did I put that picture of a dead horse?

Why don't you enter the modeling contests sponsored by the makers of such software (where the object of the contest is to create an award-winning original model) instead of griping about other contests with other goals and criteria? There is currently a Miss Digital Universe contest, and I recall one not too long ago about creating an oriental room. There are lots of contests for characters. If that is where your heart lies, go challenge yourself against other modelers. The prizes tend to be far more valuable than anything you'll find here, where most people create a scene just for the pleasure of getting an image from their own minds and hearts into form. Carolly

My thoughts? Can't state them in this forum due to TOS. Please settle for an and a nod at what Carolly said.

I totally agree with Carolly also, but you have failed to see one thing about many of the contests here. Most require that you use at Least one model created by the sponsor of the contest and many times (if Not always) what-ever freebies they have given away "count" as the required models to be used in the image. Sponsors do this in hopes of making sales.......What's wrong with that? Also, if it wasn't for the folks who buy the models that are sold here.....How do you think "Renderosity" would/could continue to exist? Who would pay the Bills?

I agree with you DarkChilde. "3D" contests should not tolerate ready-made contents. It's simply not fair. That's why all the modelling contests that I organized here (the last one: http://www.renderosity.com/contest.ez?contest_id=239) didn't allow it. For me using ready-made models would mean that the 3D scene was not created by a single artist, is not original and was not made specifically for the contest.

However, understand that some contests are not focused on 3D modelling/texturing skills, but on the global "artistic" value of an image. If this image include 3rd party models/textures or not doesn't matter. It's not as easy as some might think to transform a few poser models and props into something aesthetically challenging. As you probably know, "money doesn't buy talent".

I must ask this question to all those people whose work is 100% their own. . ."Are we wasting our time and effort?"

Surely not! If you can make 3D scenes all by yourself, you're the winner, you have the freedom to make whatever you want!

Those who put 100% of their own work into their images, I hope, will add to this forum and hopefully we can get the rules changed for all contests.

Well, since 6 months or so I dediced to stop using models done by other people. My last scenes are 100% mine (self-made models and hand-painted textures). But I won't follow you on this track. There is room for all sorts of contests. Just as there is room for all sorts of artworks. If you don't like the rules of one contest, don't participate. It's as easy as this!

Like Carolly pointed out, there are many contests for 3D modellers elsewhere (try www.3dluvr.com), and I'm sure there will be a contest for you at Renderosity in the following months (check the modelling application forums).

:) Eric

some people can model,some can't,different people have different skills,and for those that don't have the skills to model their own characters,props etc for their own scenes then they can purchase them.most of the contests i have entered stated that certain products must be used in the renders,or they are contests to win an item that is being showcased.so modelling my own item would not apply even if i could do it..also,to some people who create models it is a way for them to earn money,by putting it into the marketplace,if everyone were to build their own models and not purchase them,how would these people sell their items??? i also think it is rude to say that just because someone can't build their own models they are "talentless" there are some beautiful images on this site,made by people that use other peoples models,textures etc,the people that create the images are far from "talentless" just my opinion

Whatever expresses the artist's concept... Using ready made materials, models, textures, etc... is just the beginning. Being able to use these to express something original is where the art comes in. Those who are able to model and uv map have the additional advantage of being able to add to their works, but to just have the technical ability to use such programs will not in it's self make for a more involving image. To the viewer, the technique, the time involvement, the software used, etc should have very little if any impact... it's what their eyes see in the finished result, and the way it impacts them on an emotional level that is of the only importance. The difficult act of creating a unique vision to share, and not the materials used, is at least to my way of thinking, what it should be about. Saying that, I do believe, that learning as many skills, in as many programs as a person can, will make this easier to accomplish... Create, and express, using what you have... learn and improve techniques, think.... and enjoy the doing. best, hewsan

You know it is great if you can make your own models. Me I can't. But neither can I make my own beads for the bead work I do, but does that make it less artful, or what have you? Purchased products are used in all forms of art, not just digital. I work with digital art. I buy my models and the such, because at this time I just can't make the stuff. I also do bead work as I mentioned. I work in pottery as well, and I certainly don't go and dig up my own clay. Oh and I also sew and design clothing, to make it original should I weave my own cloth? It doesn't make the skill any less, if a person uses purchased items in their art work. It can actually show inventiveness and creativity, when an artist uses a purchased item to create something the maker of the object didn't even think of. Anyhow as I am tired I think I am going to stop here.

Dig your own clay -- don't forget to ourify it -- wouldn't want any odd bits and pieces to come in. Shape your own glass. Make your own paints, your own brushes, your own canvas, and then be sure to grow the tree, cut it to proper length, sand it nicely, dry it properly, and then fasten it together with brads and staples you dug the metals for yourself, smelted them yourself, alloyed them yourself... I can hunt and skin better than my husband -- but I go to the grocery store to buy my groceries. I've lived a life where if I wanted to learn something, I could -- but I've never turned down help along the way. It is the modern age, after all. There is nothing wrong with creating your own content. There is nothing wrong with using what other people create. And this is renderosity, an artist's site -- for all sorts of art -- both the kind required to make things, and the kind required to use them :)

I suppose I shouldn't use my computer to make art either. After all, I didn't "make" it. Sorry, couldn't resist ;o)

...having money to buy expensive models? Heck...how about having money to buy the expensive software to create models? For me...a tool is a tool...regardless of who made the hammer...that goes for any digital tools as well. I think I will enter a contest and use some of my purchased tools.

If a photographer wins a photo contest, does he have to divide his winnings with his models? I'm a 3D modeler and I prefer to create my own models, but on occasion will opt for a few that I haven't created myself. I think the criteria for contests should be left up to those who flip the bill for the prizes. As Carolly said, if I wanted to challenge myself in an area, such as 3D modeling, rather than composite artwork, I'd join a modeling contest. One must also remember that knowing how to composite well, place lights and adjust them properly and render a very very good image is, in itself, an artform. Doing well adjusted postwork is also a challenge whether or not prefab models were used.

One more thing, if people couldn't use my 3D models as composite art in contests or otherwise, I would probably lose a lot of customers.