Okay, whenever I think of rude critiques I like to go through the archives of my mind to the many moments in which I've talked more of the proverbial than any other person on this board. Add to that the couple of times when I've hounded someone for downgrading one of my works (it really was excellent! honest!!!!), and it turned out not to be them, and perhaps a couple of other nasty things I've done on this site as well... well, you get the picture... no one's perfect. To quote Bogey, 'the problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind.' Now the whole HOT20 thing... and the 'issue' of people leaving over it. I've been in the Bryce hot20 twice for the 50+ works I've done to date. Neither of them TRULY deserved it. A presence in the Hot20 doesn't really give you anything. If the number of hits one would get off r'osity people would mean anything, then this place might as well turn into Poserosity and move on. Get the drift? No one says this community is perfect. Would you rather have something like digitalart.org where self-confessed 'artistes' go over your work and decide how badly you suck compared to them? it's not a contest and there sure as hell aren't any prizes or freebies in the end. You've got 2000 people you're never going to meet looking at your work? woop-dee-doo. you should be attempting to improve your own work, not rely on others to grade it. that should only be used as a balance to your own natural vanity. As for people leaving r'osity for the crap that ends up in the hot20... that's childish, i'm sorry. i mean, wtf are you doing? you're not lowering yourself to their level by making 4 or 5 new accounts and voting for yourself, but at the same time you're not really doing yourself a service either. you're an artist, self-proclaimed or otherwise? no problem, chief, spam your work as often as you can. everywhere. make a buck off it, as long as you didn't download bryce off kazaa or somewhere, or even that, if you have the balls to sell your stuff like that. but don't take yourself out of the public eye because someone ELSE decided to be a childish little prick. If your work is worth it, 99.9% of the time it will get views, and comments, and hot20 votes. it doesn't? get better. but it's not a bloody contest and you're definetely not in it to please other people and grab their attention. and you all smell. there. i said it :P Drac

Oh noo!! I agree with everything that draculaz said...now that's weird!! ;c) Well said, Drac...

Heheh, when I saw the thread below about "rude comments" I immediately thought of you drac ;)

does a jig Drac

Lol.... thanks drac.... I agree. WooHoo.... Art is art and it isn't a HOT 20 contest. It is about being creative and imaginitive. I am going to take a shower now so that I don't smell so bad. Lol. Wade

omg, how rude! I shower before posting here. LIKE ALWAYS!!! sprays the whole place up with nice smells Drac

Wish we could all agree on what belongs in the Hot20...you know a group of newbies will vote for anything that looks better than theirs, even though a seasoned Bryce expert would never agree. There are probably a lot more newbies here, than the ones that know what they are doing. I really think once people have been here a while they do begin to get a better sense of what is going on. So for now the the Hot20 is a popularity contest of sorts...but it will never be what the seasoned members of the Bryce community want until only those that know what's good in Bryce will vote on a list of their own. Does this make sense? ;c)

Well, I think the hot20 does serve a purpose around here... It provides people with happiness or satisfaction to get in there - its always nice to have your name associated in some way with the names of people you consider "good". And a lot of people do this for the fun, so a little bit of rewarding happiness from getting into the hot20 is always a good thing (when doing this 3d stuff stops being fun for me, then thats when I'll wander off and go watch the grass grow... instead of watching the scanline progress). A second thing it does is provide a little more exposure, especially for newer members or for people who don't have a "name" thats instantly recognisable and hence instantly clickable - that extra bit of exposure was why I was generating lists of images that didn't make it into the hot20 a while ago... but that idea got 56k'ed which is why it went away. The extra exposure I think leads to a bit of extra attention for the person, and if they're serious about all this stuff, it'll make it easier for them to get help if they need it (people in general are much more willing to help or look at the work of people that they know in some way or another). Just some stray thoughts at the moment.....

good points, guys :)

thanks drac:) I have to say i agree completley.

My theory is, i want people to give me tips and pointers on my work so i CAN improve it...it's often hard to improve without suggestions on how to improve.

Helpful tips and pointers from someone who knows what they are doing is good, but it is aggravating to me that people (with nothing to show in their own gallery) makes uninformed, rude comments, that's what bothers me some. I want to learn too, and improve what I can do.

Flak, ROFLMAO, I thought the same thing, Drac, you have evolved, omg, there was a day when 'rude' comment was taken to a whole other level, you were the best....now you're such a sweetie....;]

Bittersweet. :^D

Didn't I already say this? And I thought I was the rude one how did Drac take this away from me too??? Alright it is not April... Funny thing is I did not say about signing up and voting for yourself ha I did not realize that was proly how some of the crap was getting on there. Oh man I am going to make the Hot20 from now on! LOL (wait now if I do you guysll know what I am up too). Damn foiled again! I will admit to self-promotion but is usually because I want you guys to give me some tips or pointers not stroke my ego (which if you feel so inclined...) Good points Drac and I am shocked how many have agreed with you including myself oh and you are right I need a shower...

damn smelly people... the lot of you!!! drac xoxo

I agree with Drac and with Flak :-)I think the top 20 is not worth leaving. I think we as community should make the top 20 worthwhile (you all love to be there!) by voting for good work. Maybe the top 20 should be linked to the users IP, one vote per IP (like the contests should be)instead of account.

Art is intended to express yourself, not to please others.

........ just my $0.02.........

Back when I first joined Rosity the only way you could get in the Hot20 was by the number of Views one got not by votes,Should go back to that system with a safeguard that a Pic can only stay up in the hot 20 for 2 weeks...This might hurt the Newbies only if they uploaded NON artistic Pictures then of course they wouldnt get the views,This way it will make folks strive to do better instead of having FRIENDS and or clones vote on the Pics...When I first saw the Hot20 and the way it used to be run made me want to Challenge myself to do Better so I could get my Picture in the Hot20 and Bamm I started to do better and I finally got in the Hot20,As it is now It just doesnt mean the same thing when I can take upto 2 weeks to do a Picture and obviously someone who took an hour to do a Pic is getting way more votes due to Friends and or CLONES...It is JUST NOT THE SAME....Change it back to the way it was...

Foleypro: Excellent idea.

Amen

I'm onboard for that!

Then everyone will b*tch that only T&A pics are getting in the Hot 20 even if they're crappy ones. Cuz those always get the most hits. That's one of the reasons it was changed to a voting system. That and people were using deception to get views via thumbnail trickery, false nudity tags, blah blah blah. Seriously, there's no solution other than getting rid of it completely. It's like popular music and the billboard top 40. Britney Spears may sell the most CD's but it doesn't mean she sings that great. So she goes through life thinking she's got talent while many more who are ten times better go through life barely getting noticed. Doesn't mean she's got the better deal...unless you prefer being average while deluding yourself that you're not :)

I second that "Amen", foleypro. :-)

Hey Drac, top this..
The worst Bryce Pic I've ever seen
-Gallery comment..;)..(had to admit, my first thought was 'you don't get out much'..;)
Granted, I deleted the pic (if it sucks, it sucks)..but there's waay too much attention paid to the top 20..btw..how do you get there, and how do you get notified you've made it?..not that I need to worry..;)

I think the Hot20 is actually flawed beyond belief. I mean, I've only been in there once!! And I'm sure that all my pictures should have made it. I'm lucky enough that I've not had many bad criticisms. And never from the same person twice, but that's because I killed anyone that gave a bad comment. So! What do you guys think of my art now? The real question is, why do I keep looking at it even though I disagree with it? I stopped looking at ( and making) ratings within a few weeks of joining, but can't stop looking at the hot20. I need help!!

I'm letting you put the smilies in the above post. (And there should be a few). I don't really kill people for giving bad comments. I have people that do that for me.

Well, drawbridge, I look at the Hot20 too, a couple times a week. There's simply too much to look at in the gallery and not enough time to spare, and some of the cream rises to the top (unfortunately, cream is not the only thing that floats). I can usually tell from the thumbnail whether I want to see the image. And I surf the galleries when I can. I've seen some great images through the Hot20 that I might have missed otherwise. John

You certainly have blossomed Drac, from a petulant child to a considerate child. It is so strange that I think I've got to say......"OMG"...........too. 8) As with those above, I agree wholeheartedly which your comments, it's not worth all the hubbub it gets. 8) Catlin

I like that proposal to change it back to the old system. Use folks that do high quality non-poser T&A need a chance too! (grin)

I don't think I've ever been in the hot one but then I wouldn't know 'cos I rarely look in there. So if anyone see's my work in there please let me know. lol 8) Not that it's likely to happen any time soon. 8) Catlin BTW Incarnadine I've been working on my NVIATWAS, and will be posting it pretty soon. lol 8)

It's at times like these I just don't think it's worth sticking my head out above the parapet..........

Cool!, I am definitely looking forward to that. It is quite a challenge to do one in a new manner or as a piece that distinguishes itself from thew genre. Mind you, just to have fun is always a good enough excuse for me.

If this view thing comes into effect, then I'm thinking of doing an army of NVIATWS... but on the cheap... no swords and no temples. Sure to be a winner.

Would they be fighting the army of skeletons (grin)?

in mud... ;)

Not all of us use Poser to render TA...And I have had awesome views on my Scenery Pics that I do...I wish to state once again Please put the HOT20 Back to the old way by Views and Not votes and in each of the Forums for the galleries have a Rotating Pic/Thumbnails of art show up like they do at 3D links and else where that way each artist get more exposure and say you see one you like click on it...And BTW do those Skeletons come with Wrymmasters Deformers?

The problem (as I see it) with going on the number of views is that that would hinder newer unknown users and aid better known users - people are more likely to click on a Hobbit thumbnail than a (insert name of newer user) thumbnail just because of his reputation for generating good stuff. I like the automated rotating thumbnail thing idea though. As for the skeletons - they're all pretty nekkid skeletons... no deformers, and no conforming mimic-ready DAZ millenium genitalia either... wayyy too many polygons ;)

LMAO @ Flak!

Flak: But number of views can't be manipulated by someone with 5 or 6 "friends". And do people like Hobbit get hundreds of views in a couple of days for any other reason than that they are really good?

Couldn't they just have their "friends" spend 5 minutes clicking refresh? And isn't the idea to get people to look at the image (and to get it to rate better for the hot20) because the image is good, rather than the artist has a rep for doing good stuff? I can see advantages with the view count idea, but I can also see some (to me) potential disadvantages. Basically I don't know if its any better than whats here now.

I just went to the gallery and viewed an image. I went in and out via the thumb three times and then hit refresh on the gallery page. It only counted the first viewing. I then went back in to the image and hit refresh 3 times and let the image fully load. Went back out and hit refresh in the gallery and there was still only one viewing for all the times I went in. Apparently each viewer can only be counted once, Flak, no matter how many times they hit refresh.

Hmm, you might be right about the view count - that must've been changed in the last couple of months (a while ago I know someone who added 1000 hits to someone elses image cos he was bored one night). So you're right - that looks as though it will reduce the "friend" effect.

Hmm... something else I just remembered... some time late last year, a friend of mine changed her nick here. Her comment rate and view rate got halved, even though the work was still the same style and high standard. To me that shows that the artist name and recognition of that name has a very significant effect on view rates.

Your right Flak, people do tend to view folk they know, most often. On the other hand, when I visit the gallery, if something catches my eye I will go look even if I've never heard of them. So the art does triumph in the end, if it goes by number of views. 8) Catlin

And to make it even fairer, the viewings inside the Hot20 should not count in the total viewings, just like you can't vote inside the Hot20 now. In effect, the thumbnail will be more important than ever, because most will view pics in one of 3 ways: 1. The thumbnail got their attention, so they wanted to see the image. 2. They are fans of the artist. 3. They look at every image (I'm guessing this is probably the smallest group of the three, because almost everybody has written in here that they don't have time to look at everything). John

Or to be really fair (devil's adocating), don't publish the name of the artist under the thumbnail in the galleries (as someone else mentioned) and don't have all those favourite artist ebot things happen... then the viewing rate (and hence hot20 ranking) will come down to just your option 1 (hopefully the thumbnail's clickability will be a good gauge as to the quality of the pic) and 3 (but since these folks view every pic, then they'll add the same view count on everything, and yeah I don't know of too many people that go through everything.... though there's a few names that seem to appear nearly everywhere and good on them for doing that).

I haven't been viewing the Hot20 regularly (maybe once or twice a year now), so I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I agree that the Hot20 is closely tied to popularity. I used to be on the Hot20 A LOT when I was more active on Renderosity and posting more regularly. In fact, I actually had an audience who would view all of my work and always leave comments. Now that I'm less active in the galleries, though, my name isn't as recognizable, and hardly anyone these days will view or comment on my work--even though I feel I've significantly improved in my art. Hence, I don't think I've made the Hot20 in ages (at the very least, a year). Not that I care, really. These days, for me, the real satisfaction comes from people paying me to do the artwork, and I'm making strides enough in that department. :)