Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=605838&Start=1&Sectionid=1&filter_genre_id=0&WhatsNe

I have got to tell you...my heart jumps for joy when I see Pics like this one in the Poser Gallery. It is an awesome testament of Nathalie's faith, as well as my own. It is nice to see the truth relayed in this manner. Awesome..just awesome.

James (timefighter)

Nice work , great job on the lighting.

Although I myself am not religious, being an atheist, I have no problem with pictures like this as they have been categorized appropriately. I do have a problem when someone post something purporting to be science fiction or fantasy, when it is in fact categorized that way to so you won't think it is a religious pic & avoid it like the plague. Open & honest - that's what a christian should be - not deceitful. BTW - It is a well constructed view of probably the best known biblical scene. Shadowdancer.

Amen. Thanks James. ;=]

You are correct James, it is a very special picture and thank you for pointing it out to us. Sharen ;-)

Agree with everything Shadowdancer said above. Except I'm not an atheist,but an X fundy Christian pastor,now Wiccan Priest. :-)

I'm sorely tempted to jump into a debate here, but this is the Poser forum....so, I won't.

I will say this much: Thanks, timefighter.

Very good picture, artistically speaking. I like the lighting and point of view. (religiously speaking, well, I don't feel concerned by religion. Although I do feel a tinge when anyone speaks of "the Truth". There are so many truths out there...). On a related note, I wonder if it violates the TOS : "No Torture [defined as: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, wounding, crucifixion) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure]" Religious art have been filled with nudity and images of torture in the past (martyrs, Jerome Bosch, pictures of judgement day or Eden...). Nudity and torture are excluded from this site when they are not connected with religion. I wonder if the owners of this place feel they are OK when religion is involved ? As for myself, I'd feel comfortable with nudity and not with torture on a regular (or should I say secular) basis, but since this religious scene has been depicted time and again and that most occidental children are familiar with it, I'd say it's OK. But I'm no one here.

I really appreciate a beautiful image of Redemption such as this, and I'm a Catholic!

It brings to mind Mel Gibson's recent controversy with Jewish leaders about the need to censor his "Passion" movie because it portrays Jews in a bad light. That's probably true, if he was shifting the blame from the Romans to the Jews, but given the level of hatred for Jews in Europe and Muslim countries, it's unlikely to make any difference in how real bigots feel. Personally I would advise the guy not to post a crucifixion pic here, due to the indescribable pain and torture involved, and also because posting religious pix may lead to trouble down the road, including posts of scans of overt anti-semitic propaganda from Arab tabloids, like some nut-case was posting here a few years.

I am always glad to see my Savior depicted with the reverence He deserves. Thanks for the pic! Jay Button

"given the level of hatred for Jews in Europe ..." Huh ? Any fact about that, Mateo, or just Fox News ? (I'm leaving in France and am married to a jewish woman, and no one ever caused us any problem, nor to the rest of my extended family).

http://www.chretiens-et-juifs.org/article.php?voir%5B%5D=487&voir%5B%5D=2495

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/06/wfran06.xml

http://www.tuftsdaily.com/articleDisplay.jsp?a_id=2717

Interesting that one lives in France and yet knows so little about the anti-semitism raising its ugly head in that country.

This same thing is happening in other places in Europe, too.

Would you like for me to list a few more url's on the subject?

For heavens sake..it's a beautiful picture!!!! This person did an OUTSTANDING job! And if some nutball be it Arab etc wants to start something more power to them..IGNORE THEM!!!!!!. I've been putting off scene now it's come back to the forefront to me. I was going to do a scene with a HUGE cathedral textured with dollar bills and an empty parking lot. Next to it, a small chapel with the parking lot full to make a point. Need I say more about how I feel. I could give one rats ass what people say about the actual depiction. People post pics to get honest kudo's or criticism & help on how to improve, not to hear ones political/religious views. For those I'm not interested, there is an OT forum for that shit. My zero cents.

It is a rather nice image. Exquisite lighting. Subtle colors.

dlk30341, dollar bills, very good idea but only if you incoporate the word BINGO in there somewhere. lol

I can't answer you directly, compiler. It's off-topic. I don't single out or accuse France, which has taken stringent steps to combat anti-semitism, precisely for the reason that it still exists in Europe. If you wish to bring yourself "up-to-speed" on current events in Europe, check out recent activities in Estonia, where Nazi collaborators refuse to apologize for their murderous behavior, where a popular rock group sings the lyrics "It's o.k. to kill Jews" with government approval, and where a Swiss holocaust denier is very popular right now. You might reply with Gallic hauteur that Estonia is not Europe, but what exists there on the surface, exists everywhere else in Europe as a more-or-less hidden undercurrent. It has been there for 1,000 years, so, with the help of socially-conscious people like you, we have to be eternally vigilant that it never comes to power again.

LOL nikceshield..maybe I could spell it out with "colored" bills on 1 side :O LOL

I for one am so glad, no relieved, to see that a Christian can share their views even when we religious types are told not to press our ideals upon others, but any other veiw seems to be okay! I think that this render is just so well done, it strikes a very deep note within my heart, as I have a very personal relationship with the Lord. Well done!

This thread started about one specific image...let's stick to that please.. The rest of it is better suited for the OT forum

First of all, I want to thank James (timefighter) for telling people about my image. I honestly did not think I would get these many comments about it.

I also did not think about the TOS when I posted it. As I stated on my post, I made it for me and I thought I'd share it with, not shove it to, others who might appreciate it (both for its meaning and the artistic aspect of it - I AM proud of both). That's all ;o)

Blessings,

~Nathalie

Nathalie -- Thanks for sharing.

And thanks for the OT information, mateo_sancarlos.

I was unaware of the situation in Estonia, although I've heard of similar happenings elsewhere in Europe.

Fair is fair. In order to be fair, a law must be applied fairly to ALL parties. If crucifixions are allowed and considered praiseworthy, than ANY scene depicting torture, bondage, and death must also be allowed. If we civilized people eschew the ugliness of mortification and murder in art, that law must apply to all such images and no crucifixions can be displayed. Being a religious scene does NOT excuse any violations of the Terms of Service for this site. I have raised this point before, and I will do so again. There must be no favortism. No special interest group can put its interests ahead of the common interest. I don't care if you are Christian, Nazi, or a collector of salacious fairy art (I am referring to the fact that some of the best fairy creators were driven from this site by uninformed bigots who thought that child porn was involved). What you believe is beside the point and ought to be a private matter. This is a public site, available to anyone who signs up, and there are laws about what can be posted. THIS is the law, and it specifically mentions crucifixion: "No Torture [defined as: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, wounding, crucifixion) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure]" So, why does this ar any artist think they are above the law? Carolly

What you believe is beside the point and ought to be a private matter.

Then why don't you keep your beliefs private?

Oops......getting OT here........back to the subject...... Beautiful picture! Thanks again!

I have to make a comment here. The picture from an artistic piece is truly a work of art. Lets not make this a religious issue because in fact, Jesus' cruxifiction is a historical fact, not just a religious fact. It's a shame that we have people wanting to quote the TOS when most images we look at it have nudity. If you were to break down the TOS in a legal aspect, one could make an argument that the many images of breasts shown here is also against the TOS. If someone is offended by a picture posted on this website, then treat it like TV, turn the channel and move on.

The image IS against the TOS, simply put, according to the rules of this site. shrug "No Torture [defined as: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, wounding, crucifixion) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure]"

Wonderful image....being the of the nature it is, of course someone will look and find a way to get it removed......that's the nature of the war of a higher level going on... XENOPHONZ, if you want to be heard STOP USING COLORED TEXT, it can't be read and is annoying for that reason...

Images depicting the crucifixion of Christ present an interesting situation.. I understand what the TOS say's.. BUT, Christianity presents a unique situation.. A scene depicting Christ on the Cross is a religious Icon. It is unique to the fact that to the best of my knowledge is it the only major religion where such and image is part of the faith. I do not disagree with equal interpretation of the TOS. Yet, because of this, if we remove such images, it singles out a specific faith. I hope you understand my point. However, I have to say there is a big difference between an image with Christ on the cross and a naked Vicki on the cross.. Regarding the specific image that was first mentioned. The artist did put it in the "religious" genre.. They also did try to minimize the blood. All in all it's very tastefully done. IMHO I know this isn't an easy subject... Religious issues tend to get rather heated.. perhaps the TOS needs to be revisited. Why? simply because Christianity presents a unique situation. Buddha wasn't crucified, nor as Mohamed. I understand your point...really I do... fair is fair, but, we do need to respect all faiths. Hope you understand my point Pushinfaders Either that, or all Religious images need to be removed.

Dizzie --

Sure thing.

Whatever you say.

If I can remember to do as you say......but I doubt that I will remember.....I have an annoying habit of having my own ideas.

BTW - you have the right of it on the higher level war.

say what?

C'mon folks lets stick to the issue being discussed Second Post about that... PLEASE....

Isn't using colored text against the TOS?
(just kidding ... but I couldn't resist it ... sorry) ;=[

;=]

annoy

annoy

annoy

annoy

annoy.......

etc.....etc......etc.......

Now, what was that that you told me to do?

Hmmmm.....I've already forgotten..........

Sorry pushinfaders, I posted B4 I saw your friendly (but applicable) "warning." cheers, dr geep ;=]

Can you spell "l-o-c-k-e-d?" ;=[

Yeah, Xeno - Dizzie's right. If somebody has a bright red or bright blue background in their profile prefs, they ain't gonna see your text. Man, think what that would do to your eyes, staring at a bright red screen all day. It could make a guy totally freak out, big-time.

No, Dr. Geep -- but tiny text is against the TOS......or at least I've heard a rumor to that effect.....

Now, to be on topic.....I really, REALLY liked this image.....

I could be a Satanist. I would expect you to remove images where I have people cut and bleeding on reversed altars. I could be a voodoo priest. Killing animals in blood sacrifices. Tearing live chickens apart - I would expect those images to be removed. I could be Zoroastrian- According to Zoroastrian scripture, the end of the world will come about when a comet, called Gochihr, strikes the earth. Its "fire and halo" will melt all metals and minerals and will burn up the world in a general conflagration. The resulting boiling flood of metal will flow over the earth like a river. The righteous, as well as the wicked souls (released from hell) will pass through it. I could do images of the people half-melting and tortured in the metal flood. There are many more religions that have some form of torture included. However, according to this, since those would be my religions it should be OK to show horrible tortures. It isn't necessary to remove all religious images. Plenty of Christ's life was not , 'lived' on the Cross. It isn't really about religion. Just that TOS that gets bent and bent and bent.

Ok, How about this? BTW - The image which is referenced above is inspiring to some and to others, provocative. So .... ? But, are not many pieces of "art" viewed this way? ;=]

Ahh, Dr. Geep. You do fabulous tutorials. I've been saving them for later reference.

Thank you, man.

Did I mention that I was inspired by the image in the gallery?

I couldn't really say what religion I am, not because I am ashamed but because I dont know. But I do respect Nathalie for knowing her beliefs and not being afraid to share them. She is NOT the first one to depict Jesus Christ's crucufixion. She will NOT be the last. People make art about what THEY are passionate about. If her image violates the TOS, then it's time that every crucifixion scene come down, and then that sort of runs into the freedom of religion thing doesn't it? It's a really tough subject. If the admins enforce it, then they will have to remove alot of images as I have seen plenty. The bottom line, I commend Nathalie for knowing what she believes and NOT being ashamed to share it. My 2 cents Gina a.k.a Cimerone

Point well taken... I would defend those images just the same... I'm really not trying to play favorite here.. Nor am I trying to "bend" the TOS.. You and I have had this discussion before correct? Perhaps not under these same circumstances, but the same general issue. There will always be sections of the TOS that need to be interpreted on a case by case basis. otherwise, the TOS would be a thousand pages long.... :-) I have the utmost respect for all faiths... or no faiths... that's a personal choice. I'm not going to debate that, it's pointless. To disagree, it is a religious issue, and Renderosity should remain neutral on that IMHO... This is an issue that has been the subject of much debate... Please try to bear with us while we work thru it.. I understand your remarks and hope you understand my position..I'm trying to remain neutral on this... I'd rather not see this thread locked.. That is if we can all stick to the subject at hand and not worry about fonts and colors of fonts :-) pushinfaders

OK .... The purpose in me posting this thread was not to start a Holy War. However...it seems to have gone that way. I just wanted to give praise to an exceptional piece of artwork and to give the author the same credit. It amazes me how something so simple can get some people so riled up. I do have to agree with pushingfaders comments, as Christainity has become a very large minority in the world. The depiction of Christ on the Cross can be seen almost anywhere. You can buy a Crucifix necklace at any Wal-Mart...as well as a Buddha. You can not however buy one with decapitated people...or situations that depict torture. My point is this....Nathalie created an excellent rendition of the Crucifixion, and should recieve credit where credit is due. Which however "IS" a historical "FACT". Thanks Nathalie....keep them coming. In His Service, James (timefighter)

That is if we can all stick to the subject at hand and not worry about fonts and colors of fonts :-)

Just for the record -- I was sort of kidding.....having fun with it.

ON TOPIC, AND QUITE SERIOUS:

If Christian symbolism becomes a TOS violation -- then we've got a problem.

The total ban on "off-topic" posts -- while irritating -- is something that I can live with. I recognize it as an effort to keep the peace.

But to shut down religious art in the galleries? THAT would get my ire up, for sure.

Which category of art would be abolished next? Politically provocative art? ANY art with ANY controversial content at all?

What would the galleries become? Nothing but fractals and landscapes? Neutral images? Pictures of flowers and insects?

I won't take the tack that some do, and threaten to "go away" if things don't happen as I believe that they should......

But I would be greatly displeased to see Nathalie's image taken down. Or any others like it.

I understood what you were doing, even if it was a little annoying :-) pushinfaders

You can buy a Crucifix necklace at any Wal-Mart...as well as a Buddha. You can not however buy one with decapitated people...or situations that depict torture.

Not to be disagreeable -- but actually, you can buy torture scenes at Wal-Mart. Such scenes can be found in the electronics section - both in hard "R" movie DVD's -- and in some PC games, as well.

Fresh water and salt -- coming from the same source.

Sort of like a certain website with which we all are familiar........

OK folks....I commend everyone for trying to stick to the subject... However..it's been a long day for me... PLEASE don't let this thread get locked.. be cool and be well pushinfaders

The image is a violation of TOS. That's more a problem with the TOS than with the image, IMHO. I find it very beautifully done, and I'm glad I got to see it. Regardless of anyone's personal religious beliefs (or lack thereof), it's a fine example of skillful digital art and freedom of expression. bonni

I agree with elizabyte. Perhaps the TOS needs to be examined and edited. Especially if they are going to have a section for religious art. Nathalie did not post this image in other areas where she tried to push her faith. I applaude Nathalie for her beliefs that shows an example of our Lord Jesus' sacrifice for us. This image is an example of the greatest act of love ever done by anyone who ever walked this earth.