Lets say a prayer for 'Chelle's tripod.... cheap, plastic and a piece of crap.... still it served it's purpose for a good many years.

I've been putting off buying a new one for a good long while pushing this old one to it's limits.... hmmm, what happens when you put 4 1/2 pounds of camera and lens on a cheap plastic head? Why it snaps right off at the joint....

So now I need to buy a new tripod and I think I've narrowed it down to the model that I'd like (having read good things about it on photo.net), but it comes with two different heads.... the difference being about $20 in price. Not a big deal, the only thing is I'm not very knowledgable about tripods all that much and don't understand the difference between a ball head and a pan/tilt head.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each type....and which of these two would you recommend were you to pick between the two?

Bogen/Manfrotto Pan/Tilt Head
or

Bogen/Manfrotto Ball Head

Sorry, can't explain that all to well but i try: Pan/Tilt head gives you perfect control in all 3 dimensions individually. Changing one doesn't hurt the other two so this is what you want if you're shooting non-moving objects. Poor if your objects are moving. The ball head allows you to change all three dimensions at once. Perfect if action is what you want to get. But if your object isn't moving, it's a lot less comfortable for you will constantly change dimension that should not be changed. Hope you can understand what i try to tell Michelle :) Btw.: Manfrotto is an excellent choice. Heard only praise about them!! Still working with plastic-crap too, dreaming of a carbon-gizzo .. sigh

I'm still hesitant to buy a new tripod. The old one still works, but it's one from the 70's and it has a color to match... blue-purplish and bare aluminium YECH. Don't have much to add to Raven's comments though.

In addition to Raven's comments: Pan: horizontal motion, for tracking objects moving in a horizontal line, like a car moving over the road. Tilt: Vertical motion, like following an elevator Mine also has an option of setting the camera on it's side in portrait mode. On a ball head you can basically set it in any direction and do that using only one screw, on the pan/tilt model you'll have to use at least 2. Downside to that is unsteadyness if you need to track like with a pan. Also getting it perfectly horizontal may be a bitch.

Raven - excellent explaination. Only thing I'd add is there are a number of different types of ball heads. The type you linked uses an action grip that lets you squeeze and change all 3 axis at the same time. As Raven said, there's no way to lock one out, so if you just want to do a pan adjusment, you'll have to be very careful or you will also adjust tilt and elevation. There are also some that have seperate knobs for pan and tilt/elevation with a tension control knob (that's the kind I have). I love my Bogens. I have: Manfrotto 3021BPro with 3030 pan/tilt head (like the black, anodized look of the 3021BPro) Manfrotto 3011 with Giottos MH-1001 medium ball head (backup tripod) Manfrotto 680B monopod with 3229 tilt head If you're on a budget and just can't shell out $150-300 for a Bogen/Manfrotto starter tripod/head set then take a look at the JTL tripods. They are -not- at the level of Bogen, but they are good for a first real tripod. Very sturdy if you pay attention. The tension screws tend to back off a little after a while (at least mine did). But if you just do a quick tightening before you use it then it's fine. If I was still using it, I would have added some $0.05 locking washers to the screws by now to take care of that problem. The JTL 6113 with 3-way pan/tilt head was my first "real" tripod. It has a geared and braced center column and the whole thing is very sturdy when you have it tightened up (I think it was rated up to 20lbs). It only cost me $70 new for the whole thing on sale at a local camera store. -=>Donald

Crossposted with 3D ... Hey 3D, here in the 21st century, the ball heads have built in bubble level indicators so you know when it's on level. hehehehe. :D Wow ... blue-purplish and aluminum. Hang fuzzy dice on that man ... you gotta!!! :)

Which ever one you buy Michelle, make sure it has a boom. Makes life a lot easier. Manfrotto Benbo 1, with a pistol grip lock and bubble level. 36" Boom extension. Good luck in your search.

I agree with raven_427 ... 3-axis is a lot easier to adjust for still photography than the ball head type. As others have said, it's sort of a "Betcha can't eat just one". That having been said, lets now confuse the issue by suggesting that you consider a totally different tripod. If you are going to do Macro work -- especially if it will be while hiking/field conditions. For the tripod, you should also consider the Manfrotto 3021 PRO tripod. The unique feature of this one is that the center leg (up/down) can also be used as a horizontal arm with the camera at the end of that extension -- it lets the camera get closer than the tripod legs. You also get a sort of apron that holds some rocks (readily available while hiking) as stabilizing weights (ballast). (No, I couldn't find a good picture on the web) http://web.ivenue.com/simondsphotographic2/item102752.ctlg https://www.adorama.com/BG3021BP.html An additional perfect tool for macro photography: Velbon Super Magnesium Slider -- 2 axis positioning with vernier control. https://www.adorama.com/VNSSM.html ...IMO, it's worth every penny. MGD

MGD if you check the links above that I put there in the original post I think that it is the same one you just mentioned? There are two, one with the ball head and one with the pan/tilt head. Bogen - Manfrotto 3021B Pro Black Tripod with 3265 Grip Action Ball Head or Bogen-Manfrotto 3021B Pro Black Tripod with 3030 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head with Quick Release

You're right. I was focusing (ouch, bad pun!) on the choice of heads rather than which tripod was in the picture. BTW, one of my local camera stores has that one on display, arm horizontal, ballast pocket in place, and a Bogen Manfrotto 3028 Super 3D Head http://focuscamera.com/prods/264874059.asp Sorry that I can't find a better picture (yet). I forgot to mention that I own a 3051 studio tripod with a 3047 head ... similar to the 3030 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head. It is good for some of what I do, but if I get back into hiking, the 3051 would be too heavy and I'm going to get a 3021 PRO. Isn't it wonderful we choose an activity with simple equipment and modest costs? LOL MGD

I think you all did a great job answering my question.... I'm definitely going to order the Manfrotto 3021B Pro, think the tilt/pan head would be better suited for my needs.... and as both Donald and MGD both have it and like it, sounds like a good thing. :~)

Yah ... and what about the Velbon macro slider?

ah! a sketchpad, some vine charcoal, or maybe just a $12 disposable point-and-shoot... A tripod is 'prolly the one accessory I've purchased that actually has a big positive impact on results. I just have a cheapie for field use. [I have an expensive Bogan studio version, but very heavy!]. I can see that the "boom" thingie could be really useful. I also see that these have relatively inexpensive "mounting plates." (If these are what I think they are) could be useful having one for the second camera. Thanks for the description about ball mounting. I've wondered about this. Seems like the 3-way pan is most useful for stuff I do.

I have the 3130 and I love it. It is way too heavy for hiking though. I love the stability so I get extra excercise by lugging it around. But if I am just going for a light jaunt I take the monopod.

Well, I gotta get my 2.59362 cents worth in. I'll start off by saying that I would shop for a tripod that works for the type work I do - for me, a lot of nature, wildlife and macro stuff (with a bit of hiking about). I've got a few rules that have to be met for a tripod: 1: There is simply no such thing as a "lightweight sturdy" tripod. I want a tripod that feels like a rock once I've set it in place (hiking or not). Setting up on a flimsy surface WILL result in flimsy images. 2: I need a tripod that doesn't have additional braces for the legs extending to the center column. These are going to inhibit the tripod's versatility in the field (great for studio situations - but not for field work). 3: Reason for reason no. 2 - I need a tripod that allows me to fan the legs out to get it as low as possible to the ground for low level work. 4: I'm not concerned with a center column - too much center column extension, and you've got a monopod on a stand - not a tripod. The center column also restricts how low you can get when you fan the legs out. (I've actually cut the center column of my tripod down to the quick. I carry an extension that I can attach to it if I absolutely need to get higher. 5: Nice feature - but I've never found any use of a tripod that allows you to reverse the center column. Either you're shooting into the third leg because you're viewing through the opening of the other two, or you're fighting the opening to get a clear view through the other legs. Much better solution (for me) is to carry a Super Clamp and clamp it low on the leg and put the head on it. 6: Speaking of heads - I've had a go with both pan-tilt and ball heads...and now use almost exclusively ball heads. Although the pan-tilt head allows you to "pan" with a subject (a race car, for example), I've yet to set up a tripod where I can pan within that locked plane and get the composition I wanted - it's always a bit off one way or another, and that makes it too easy for the photographer to settle for what's in the finder. I am also not a fan of the "pistol-grip" flavors of ball heads, mainly because there's a DRASTIC shift should you want to change from horizontal to vertical. I DO , however, LOVE the LARGER ball heads (when I say "larger", I mean the Arca Swiss and large Bogen head - don't recall the number). These allow smooth motion, complete with a tension setting where you can move the camera and let go of it without it moving. All that being said, I am current;t using a Bogen 3020 with a BIG Bogen ball head (I've got a 3047 that I haven't used....well....for a while). I've filed out the leg expansion "stops" to where the tripod will go pretty much flat to the ground, and have sawed off the center post flush to the bottom of the mount. I've been wanting to go to a heavier tripod, but have only found a select few that meet my requirements (Gitzo's - and who can afford that?). For macro work, I also lug around a Benbo tripod - the most flexible (and confusing) tripod around - but it'll get you into positions that would embarrass the writers of the Kama Sutra! Just my thoughts. Wolf

I guess You have all the good advice...don't be fooled like I was....the last Tripod I got only had 2 Legs :[

Wolfsnap, have you considered the giotto's innovator?