If Bryce for the Macintosh is going the way of the Homing pigeon, I need to decide on a replacement program to use in teaching graphics and animation. Sure I could fall away to the more traditional forms of teaching things like Macromedia Studio, But I really love teaching graphic concepts with Bryce. I though about Carrara Studio, but it is a bit difficult to teach in an enviroment with learners of varying levels. So I need some help finding a replacement that offers the same great features and will be around for a while. Schools like mine can't afford every upgrade that comes along, but it would would be nice to be able to continue with a product line when funds are available. Has anyone out there used Vue D Espirit in a classroom setting? I would be curious to here from you.

vue in a classroom setting is about as good as telling your students to use crayons. actually, my bad, that's vue in any setting. www.bryceformac.com new version of bryce is being developed. it's not dead. drac

ROFL@Drac! Drac, yer so bad,lol! But, if you hadn't said it Shadowdragonlord probably would have.;-)

Unfortunately, Vue is surpassing Bryce in a lot of ways, have you checked their gallery lately? Not to mention getting support fromt the company that makes it...don't get me wrong, I love Bryce and have been doing all my stuff in it, but I have Vue also, and and there isn't anything Bryce can do that Vue can't...

Zhann, I haven't seen any Vue pics where things are in sharp focus, everything seems to be a bit fuzzy. Is this the fault of the program or the users? If you know of an Vue image that is an exception to this, would you please post a link? Thanks!

I'd say that was the user, as alot of people haven't a clue about focus, dof, pov, etc. Proof huh, see what I can do....

I'm rendering my challenge entry but I'll do an image for you in Vue...

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=617741&Start=19&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&Whats

tjohn, from a qiuck look in their gallery, landscape....

qiuck=quick

Some others, although the composition in some and the subject matter in others, need some tweaking, overall the renders seem clear and in sharp focus, however I did find alot where the volumetric lighting was grainy, and most have no imagination when it comes to materials, and feel small grainy mats will cover a host of bad decisions in comp. http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=616820&Start=19&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=617071&Start=19&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=615354&Start=37&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=614801&Start=37&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=614084&Start=55&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=610647&Start=73&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=610639&Start=73&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=609758&Start=73&Sectionid=3&filter_genre_id=33&WhatsNew=Yes

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12368&Form.ShowMessage=1674044

I have both Vue D'Esprit and Vue 4 Pro - recently 'sidegraded' I find that realism is easier to achieve with Vue but the trees aren't that good for closeups due to their make up. Their materials editor (IMO) is superior to Bryce as you can mix materials, for want of a better expression, in layers and each layer can have different transparency, diffuse, ambience etc. Their terrain editor isn't so good though I use both Bryce and Vue equally depending on what I want to do :-) Most of my renders done in any programme look fuzzy because I make them that way - I nearly always use a combination of Mistifier and Porcelain (Xero) and Melancholytron (Flaming Pear) as postwork However, the Vue Pro version is very prone to constant freezing up and crashing which needs to be sorted out. I started a mega disucssion on this topic in the Vue forum and it's not resolved. Link at top of this post

gillbrooks, is it worth it to side grade to pro, I like 4 just fine...inquiring minds need to know...:)

Attached Link: http://www.e-onsoftware.com/Products/vueproductline/index.php

Zhann: Aside from the crashing bugginess which I've learned now to save after most changes ;-) it's worth it for me. The plant editor (pictured) is dead cool - you can make changes to the vegetation and save it as a new species so it will create variations of your new one just like it does with the plants that come with it - I find this feature most excellent. You can also export your plants out as obj/3ds etc to use in other programmes. You can also add stuff like wind variation to your plants and trees You also have the option to export all Vue objects, not just terrains. There are more render options than D'esprit and when you've decided on your perfect render settings you can save them and reload them each time you render to save time fiddling about. Take a look on the E-on site for a full list of comparisons. (link) Hope it's OK posting the OT reply here :-)

Well Bryce has no plants at all, and the trees leave alot to be desired, so it would be worth it just for that, export ALL Vue objects as 3ds/objs? Holy cow, that IS a big thing, dang!!!!

I smell treason here, insurrection, blasphemy, herasy...... You mean you can use Vue trees in Bryce?

Yeah....If they do not do anything with Bryce soon...I am afraid I will be making a severe program change...

Hey B, yup export them from Vue with mats intact, import into Bryce, all types of plants...:)

Is this Pro or 4 that you can Export all Models?

And this Vue thing costs....$?

Zhann: Thanks for all the trouble. But...most of these pics still exhibit what I'm talking about-a fuzziness that looks like it would benefit from an extra rendering pass or something. If you want to do a scene with a lot of more than passable plant life without having to hand-paint it, yes, there's no comparison. But I still think in general, Bryce renders just look better. And I'll admit to being prejudiced. :^) John

Remember he's talking about the Mac version - I've tried every Vue Mac demo and not one has worked more then about 20 minutes without crashing. And I don't buy apps whose demos don't work. Trying searching through the Vue forum for how Mac users are fairing, I think that will give you a good feel for Mac Vue. Don't even bother searching Eon's Knowledge Base for Mac help - there's almost nothing there. I suggest you stick with Bryce - but you might alsowant to look at the following Mac apps: Voyager: http://www.uisoftware.com/Voyager/index.html Mojoworld: http://www.pandromeda.com Voyager is by Eric Wenger (Bryce's "father") and is the most solid Mac app I own, made only for the Mac. But it's brand new and lacks a lot of features (but it sure is fun!) Mojoworld is by Ken Musgrave one of the father's of Fractal Landscapes also a very solid Mac app. It's also fairly new (2.0) but it's got some cutting edge features like river/lakes that actually flow down hill and collect in low spots and there's now a beta plugin that builds parametric forests. Since it's such a deep program it's also got a steep learning curve. Good Luck! Dan

Attached Link: Download Tree OBP

OK, here's a render of a tree I edited in Vue Pro and exported as 3DS I imported into Bryce and saved out as an OBP file (link) so I'll let you see what you get. To me the trunk looks somewhat square in Bryce even after smoothing the mesh

The trunk looks like it's got some transparency to it as well.

er, isn't someone working on Bryce 6 for the Mac..which would be correct, since it is going the way of the carrier pigeon (still thriving)..while Bryce 5, for the Pc, seems to be going the way of the Passenger pigeon, or the Carolina Parakeet..;)

Attached Link: http://www.bryceformac.com/

"BryceforMac" was just the web site name- they are definitely looking to do a cross platform version of Bryce 6. Best; Dan

wscottart - I think that Bryce is still the way to go. . . I teach graphic design and animation in a middle school. I've been using Bryce 5 as one component in my program(mac) for three years now. Bryce is a wonderful introductory program to 3D modeling, animating and environment construction. The best part is the current price! At the current price of $60 a copy, it costs a little more than a video game. This low price has enabled many of my students to purchase a copy for home use. I've been using Bryce since V 2.0 and continue to experiment with new techniques. . .which is never ending!. . just ask any of the members at this site! I intend to continue using Bryce into the future even if it's availability is terminated. I also own Vue, Carrara and Amapi but wouldn't use any of them with my young students. Of all the programs, Bryce still has the most user friendly UI.. . .and the students love it!! and remeber. . . It doesn't matter if you learn to drive in a newer or older car. . . it's learning how to drive that's important!:)

And this Vue thing costs....$?

Well as far as Macs go, don't have one, don't want one, and I think the fuzziness you're talking about has to be the 'graininess' cause the Vue pics I'm looking at are quite clear and sharp...and my glasses are sctratched to boot! I like both apps for their strong points, however, I see no future for Bryce on PC, and pretty soon every other software similiar to Bryce will far outstrip it... the technology changes that fast...I'll continue to use Bryce cause it's 'comfortable', but I started in Vue, and will continue to use it as well...after all, the are only tools in my paint box... Bryster, if you have Vue4, the side grade is $399, $415 with shipping.

Thanks, Jan! Guess I won't be buying Vue today.....

Me neither!

"I teach graphic design and animation in a middle school. I've been using Bryce 5 as one component in my program(mac) for three years now" nuski... Where did you go to get your certification in using Bryce as a Teaching Program,I want to start teaching too but I didnt realise they gave out Certification let alone even had a school that Taught Bryce...And is there a Place we can view the Art?Or do I have to go to school and learn all of the same Programs I use now just to be able to get a decent job?Right now I am working in a Gas station and would love to teach as well as to keep learning...

@ foleypro - there's nothing to stop you teaching pupils privately, on your own pc. A small ad in the back of a local paper, plus an A4 colour print of one of your own renderings stuck up on the noticeboard of a local supermarket with a note saying 'LEARN HOW TO MAKE COMPUTER GRAPHICS LIKE THIS' plus small ads in any local artists's groups mags. If you feel you're capable of teaching, why not spend any spare time you have in the gas station planning lessons, setting up projects, seeing what needs to be covered in each lesson etc. Find out where local art-groups meet, and stick an ad on the notice-board there as well. Also.....I don't know where you live, what way the education-system is set up, but usually certification is most important when teaching younger age-groups. Once you're into adult teaching, it's more about your skills than pieces of paper. Just be careful about who you invite into your home. Vet prospective pupils well. Here endeth Granny Pogmahone's preaching.......LOL

Thankee Granny I have thought about it and I keep thinking about it...I might just see what happens...I wonder if I would have to purchase a different License to use Bryce5 and Poser5 for multiple computers...I have G-max and MayaPLE so they are free I can give some lessons in these programs as well... Hmmmmm a plan is starting to formulate... Thanks again...

foleypro - I don't believe that there is such a thing as a Bryce certification. As pogmahone suggested, you can teach privately without any form of certification and I'm certain this pertains to any age group. In my case, I live in New Jersey USA and attended a four year college to get a NJ teaching certificate in art education for grades K - 12. I taught traditional art techniques for many years and then several years ago my school district asked if I could begin a digital design class. I suggested the software. . . .they supplied the funding. . . and here I am today. If you really would like to teach digital design, I suggest that you contact the adult night schools in your area. Adult classes are mostly held in local schools or colleges where anyone can teach their specialties ( I did that also for many years!). Where I live, the adult night schools permit school lab computer use by their instructors. So check it out!. . . . My final suggestion is to offer graphic design instruction in the student's home. You can suggest the software, have the students load it on their computers and just travel to their homes once or twice a week. All that you would have to bring is your skill and knowledge. Anyway, it's worth a try. . .so give it a shot! : )

I too am trying to learn Vue. It seems like Bryce 6 is gonna take a while to come out. In my opinion, Vue impliments sunlight on foliage better than Bryce, especially light from the back or the top. Finally "bryceformac" is not very appetizing for me, I'm a PC user. I know it's just the name of the website ;-) It seems like C4D is a very poplular "next step" unless Bryce 6 comes out.

Wow, that statement created quite a bit of discussion. On the teaching aspect I have been using Bryce (mac) versions for over 5 years. This year I will be ceritified officially as a Technology Applications teacher in Texas even though I've been teaching Graphics and animation Since 1997. I will just hold off and hope that Bryce for Mac continues, after all its not the only arsenal in my teaching. I was just wondering which direction I would take if it was not developed.