..Sorry, it appeared to me that my thead was NOT published, one more theng subject to one more question: So, I remind you what was in my yesterday's letter: (If necessary, I will call RR on thephone, if nt published this time): "Dear Renderosity Administrators, A fair question needs a fair answer from a fair Website _In the past, I used to ask stupid questions. This time, let's be more serious here, please; I want a clear answer from the Renderosity Adms.: Thanks to the R.R. Adms to answer first, and thanks too to YOU ALL to verify what I am saying here, and maybe explain me or either, helpully...please, comment it. I swear that what I am telling here is true, and I can maintain & affirm it in front of any Court: But all I need here, is a direct & public answer honestly to THESE FACTS: _I was chacking a comment that an artist did after I posted one of my artworks....After a while, I checked his name...then ...other names on the "Members list": Number of 'Active members':(04/15/2004,2:51 CST (GMT-6) (I changed my computer-Time into one of the USA Times.) Result 167,935 active members. Okay. _Wanting to do some: "Search by members" I typed a name in the ..."Members Area": 25 artists by page. Okay. 167,935/25 = About 6717 pages...Alright. On these active members, I & my friends have found & have verified, you can verify too: 1)_Members' "Artist Pages" About 3 or 4 on 25 individuals on each page have a personal "Artist Page" _I found that 3/25 = 0.12 and so, 20,152 empty "Artist Pages" up to 4/25 = 0.16 ===>>>> 167,935 x 0.16 = 26870 filled-up "Artist Pages" The rest, let's see, it's about the same: 167,935 - 26870 = 141065 are empty ! This IS the truth about the real number of RR Individuals' "Artists Pages" number ! My first question is: What the heck does all of this all means ? 2)"Members' "Gallery Images" 6717 pages of 25 members for each page (Still out of these 167,935 members) 80% of: "Sorry, but no files match your search"...Well...???!!! The percentage is much lower: Only from about 806 up to 41980 Between 0.0047% and 0.24 % of "active members" have a personal filled-up "Artist page" on Renderosity ! _167,935 active Members: The rest of the pages are empty ! _This IS the truth about the real number of RR Individuals' "Artist pages" number oout of 167,935 "active members" ! _Same question: What the heck does all of this all means ? 3)_Members' "Gallery Pages": Still 6717 pages of 25 members each page.... = About 2686 have a Gallery page let's say about 0,016% of RR "active members have a "Gallery page" with pictures in them. _This IS the truth about the real number of RR Individuals' Same question: Honestly, what the heck does all of this all means ? 4)"Free Stuff contributions": I get usually between 65% and 70% or of empty pages. (Out of the many hundreds pages that I and one of my friend, member of RR, that we both checked randomly ): _About 30 % have something to propose: lets say: 0,30 x 167,935 = 50380 active members have something on "Free Stuff contributions" _The rest of all those pages (70%) are empty ! with "Sorry, but no files match your search"... _This IS the truth about the real number of RR Individuals' "Free Stuff- contributions" _Same question: What the heck does all of this all means ? ....and now my real question to the Administrators is: WHAT ARE THE OTHER MEMBERS DOING HERE ???!!! NOTHING ! If we count the merchants, it gives 45 % of really active members. About "who" is scaming who ?... _Thanks for your attention, AND FOR A CLEAR ANSWER TO THIS ! ...Some would ask themselves from on now if no answer: "Has R.R. become some real "mysterious clan" of scammers, or a graphics Fine Arts Website...???!!!" ...I am very sorry, among other things... for my typing errors and my bad english. Be asssured & cumfortable with the fact that, in no way, whatsoever, "I woudn't want to spoil the party" ! Greetings. _Klaus.

HeHeeeeee :) but 45% active members isn't so bad surely? ( even if most of them are in a coma tonight). Mickey Scouse. p.s. "...I am very sorry, among other things... for my typing errors and my bad english." Your English is a hell of a lot better than a great many born English-speakers; don't worry ;)

..In fact, it's more than 60% of "Active members" WHO HAVE NOTHING ON ANY OF THEIR Galleries, neither Artists Pages, nor Personal PAges, nor even on their "Free Stuff contributions", or Art Merchandise" Pages...so you're telling me that Renderosity has become a writers & chat Forum Website instead of a Graphics Art Website it is sup[posed to be and to remain so ???!!! You can verify yourself(ves) that what I affirm is the absolute truth. We are ready to send the Renderosity Adms more serious statistics if necessary about thiese "strange" 60% of "active members".. _Thanks for your first answer anyway ! I just hope you don't consider what we say here "futile and not serious" ! We are VERY SERIOUS & TELLING THE TRUTH! Something MUST be done about those obvious abusing "subscribers" ! Klaus

WHY is this important to you????? you have started 3 threads on this subject. why do you care who is active or not??? its not as though you pay a membership $fee to login here. if these numbers upset you so much you should consider finding youself another internet forum where you can feel better about the number of "active" members.

I am moving this thread along with the other to the Community Center Forum

"Something MUST be done about those obvious abusing "subscribers" !" Like me? :D Actually, I'm a recovering poser-holic. Periodically, I'll play with poser enthusiastically for a few months, then loose interest for a few months, then start again for a few months. Unfortunately, even when I'm playing with it, my enthusiasm far outweighs my talent, so I don't post images. I have (occasionally) posted images in the forums, but not the gallery. No way to know for sure, but couldn't quite a few of the members be in the same boat? Interested in the technology, enjoy "playing" with it, but don't feel comfortable posting work?

Maybe he's just wondering how a site that claims a quarter of a million members (the population of a good-sized town) can be so quiet in the forums. You'd think that out of all those people, some of them would want to talk to each other. m. p.s. I'm an active member...

We are ready to send the Renderosity Adms more serious statistics if necessary about thiese "strange" 60% of "active members".. _Thanks for your first answer anyway ! I just hope you don't consider what we say here "futile and not serious" ! We are VERY SERIOUS & TELLING THE TRUTH! Something MUST be done about those obvious abusing "subscribers"! Ok... step one, calm down, Klaus. :o) Step two, before "we" consider what "must" be done, I'd like to know what the problem is. How can the number of members listed here, actual or otherwise, be a problem? I'm not challenging your premise or the statistics, only seeking clarification towards a mutual understanding. We can't do anything if we can't come to an agreement that there is something that anything needs to be done about. Your presentation of the issue is exhaustive, but incomprehensible. When you use "we" in your statement above, who are you speaking for? Is there a collective movement whose specific interest is site statistics, which you represent; or are other members like myself included in your general statement? If it's the latter, please count me out... I'm not interested. And finally... step three, calm down. :o) Later. M

Don't worry about them, they're just lurking. Usually those are the folks that like to silently peruse the gallerys and post a random comment when something catches their interest. They may not have the time/talent/resources to produce any artwork, etc. but that doesn't preclude them from enjoying it or providing input on it. ;)

oh, ok, ok... you got us. we are aliens from saturn hiding in forums until we have our full strength. first we take manhattan, then we'll take berlin.

"Something MUST be done about those obvious abusing "subscribers" " Hmm..so those of us who come here to enjoy looking at the new art and new poser models are "abusing" are we? Because not all of us think that our attempts at art are good enough that we want anyone else to see them, that means we are abusers? We abuse the site by making the odd purchase and only coming to look at others' work when we don't post our work and we have never created any items? Well because this is a public forum I will refrain from telling you what you can do with your opinion. Abuse this.

what your statistics don't show is if those people are customers here who don't post anything anywhere,and if they are cusomers then they help pay for the site..so i don't consider that as "doing nothing"..also i don't see anything in your freestuff contributions either,and only 2 images in your gallery,both of which were posted within the past couple of weeks,either you were doing a lot of lurking before posting or you havn't been a member here for very long..either way i don't think you sould be telling the admins how to run their site,do you???

A few weeks back, I dove head first in to 3d cg. I surfed a lot and regestered with;probebly, eight diffrent sites. You have to to check them out. I have only returned to three and am active in one;here. If the rest of those sites want to put me in an inactive file, fine. I agree that maybe rosity should do something like that. as stated previously if an account is totaly inactive for a year, put that account in some inactive file. But klaus, I fale to see what has you so upset as to do such indepth fact finding. And your english and spelling is considerable better then mine. I'm one of those "born english speakers" metioned above.

Klaus - I'm really not sure how these statistics impact you as an artist, but no where does it state that a person that registers has to have an artist's page or gallery or freestuff to be considered active. Technically, an active member is one that has signed up and that has visited the site in the past year - be it one or more times. There's no efficient way to ascertain what many members are doing here. I'm sure that many come here to learn and may not be comfortable posting their work. I've noticed many members that participate in the forums but have no gallery or artist pages as well. On the other hand, there are probably people that come to look at the artwork of others but may have no talent of their own. Regardless of why a person signs up, I cannot see how it would be beneficial to discriminate against members who do not participate in the community in a way that satisfies what you've laid out to be your requirements. I think it's safe to assume that some people have visited this site without ever knowing anything about Poser, Bryce, Vue, etc. and probably left the site with a new found interest in digital art and may have become digital artists themselves. To put it simply, we have many people that participate only in a particular areas of the site rather than all areas of the site. This site is a learning tool and resource for anyone that is interested in digital art, not just those that participate on a larger scale as you have suggested. Tommy Renderosity Admin/Programmer

At this point having no more patience for the arrogance of the matter. I would like to ask, who the hell klaus is to say anything to anyone about what they do or dont do at this site. Does the site belong to him? Does he pay for the pc/mac system people use to come here? Does he pay for their connection to the net? As the answer to those are obviously no, I for one dont think its any of his business why others come here and sign up. I personally dont care who is, or is not "really" active.

P.S. I dont mean that as a personal attack either, just trying to point out that what others do here is really none of the thread starters business.

Amen BDC. I come here at least once a day to catch up on the latest innovations, to see what others are doing and to maybe even relax a bit in chat. I've been "active" here since 1999. No, I don't have a gallery, freestuff or an artist's page. Don't need to since I have all that stuff on my own domain and website. Heck, I don't even have time to update my own website most days let alone bother with a second site (artist's page). But I am a very VERY good customer here and I have the credit card bills to prove it. Oh, but wait, that's site abuse. Oops. ;) yer right, what I do here and why is nobody's business but mine and the site owners/admins. Kate

I've never understood anything Klaus has said over the years, especially back when someone with an identical writing style was posting anti-Semitic images and messages, but I think this is a rehash of the old "some are more equal than others" argument. Another variation of it is when some old-timer resents all the newbies who aren't showing him "the proper respect". We see such threads every six months or so. In other words, he wants special privileges for himself and other "special members", and one of those privileges he wants is to be free from any consequences if he becomes abusive.

I think "someone" needs to find better use of their time... ~eye roll~

So Im just wondering why klaus can post the same messege 3 times, and never come back after replies are made...? sounds suspiciously 'troll' like ;)

Absolutely, jumpastartme2. We got hit again. LOL!

We are VERY SERIOUS & TELLING THE TRUTH! Like WE care??? Something MUST be done about those obvious abusing "subscribers" ! Yes, please, someone get rid of this /&%$... erm, nice dude... already!

am I alone in wondering if this is pierrecolat (sp)?

Heh, you might have an idea there Teri ;) Can we just 'get a rope'? >:D EG

They have the same political beliefs, but it's not pierre AFAIK.

I DEMAND ANSWERS! ANSWERS! DO YOU HEAR ME?!! ANSWERS!!!!!

Uh.....about what, I have no idea......

BUT I INSIST THAT YOU ANSWER ME ANYWAY!!!!

IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

Yes indeed! And I demand that you now answer Xeno... Give him whatever it is he doesn't know he wants to hear, LOL!!!

Answer ME! stamping feet Answer ME!!!!!!!!!!! What was the question again?

Answers :-)

Nods head...thats right!

As with a lot of sites most come for the freebies...some come to Troll....some to make art and post...some to laugh at posts in the forum...some to get angry in the forums (hey takes all kinds)....and some just to Demand answers ....oh well, big deal...on to the next slobber-knocker...see ya there...

Hmmmmm.....I am comforted to know that by Klauses definition, my miserable little gallery means "I have value". If I didn't have a gallery, I would be DOING NOTHING!!! Guess the money I spend in the market place and that doesn't get tracked for public consumption doesn't count for anything. Except that it helps pay the bills so that old Klaus can have a place to come at night and YIP YAP HIS DEMANDS!! Man....what "time warp machine" did he fly in on!?