I posted this in Product Showcase. As I'm not sure which forum is best for this, I'm posting here as well. Mods, confine me to one or the other if you have to. -------------------------------------------------------- I'm asking again because I guess no one ever really answered months ago when the MM3-line of people came out... Merchants, once you have built your mesh for Michael3 and Victoria3 clothing, isn't making it available for MM3-line figures or MM2-line figures a matter of how things are grouped in Poser? In other words, one doesn't have to make 2 meshes to have a product be available for MM2 or MM3, right? So if it's a matter of grouping the mesh for an MM3 figure and then having a copy of the mesh to group for MM2 figures, why on earth is no one making MM2 versions of their MM3-line clothing figures? Even if you were burnt out and did the regrouping for the other figure a week later, you still be upping your potential sales by what I assume could be a lot. My take on it must be too simplistic because I can't otherwise fathom why there's never an MM2 version of the current Vicky and Mike stuff. Can anyone set me straight on this? Or can someone take my notion and start doing MM2-line versions. Thanks, Dave

I agree, I think MM2 is far from dead and deserves some new stuffage for his wardrobe. O.o Marque

Poserworld is good about making versions for both... Thanks Steve/Poserworld

Yes, Poserworld is especially good about that. And I'm a happy member. I wonder if Steve'll chime in and speak of the process involved for some of the merchants to see. If it's not too bad, then it's just dumb for these merchants not to (AT SOME POINT) make a version for the MM2 People. I think the people with V2 and M2 and Stephanie are still addicts and there's not a lot of "fix" out there. : ) Dave

A similar conversation came up at DAZ. nothing seems to have come from it but i'll point out a couple of things here that I pointed out there.
...
FYI in the follwing:
Gen2 = Generation 2 = M2 and V2
Gen3 = Generation 3 = M3 and V3 etc

Of all the discussions I have seen on using the different characters, It seems that there are two major groups of people. Those who use Gen 2 because they dont have Gen3 (usually for financial reasons) and those who use Gen2 and Gen3 (usually in the same scene). There is still a Gen2 market.

Personally Id like to see the artist offer both Gen2 and 3 versions of their clothes. With the existence of the Clothes converter and texture converter programs it would seem to be a potentially highly profitable venture to make Gen3 stuff then convert them (assuming the conversion is easier than recreating the stuff) and sell both versions.

I know it is far from a perfect, quick, one step solution it would seem to me to at least help facilitate the changes.

Id rather spend my money on the items and not spend my money on the program and the items and have to spend time converting the items.

Maybe foolishly, I posted my original post here also in the Product Showcase forum - so unfortunately 2 threads are existing now. But what I'm told over in that forum is that the Joint Parameters for Gen2 are so clunky as to make making clothes for them a pain in the behind. Prior to Gen3, I guess this was a tolerable pain. And the poster says that when they've released Gen2 stuff lately, all they get are emails requesting V3 versions... ! Heck! : ) I did suggest (jokingly) that those people are poser-addled, poser-addicts as there is so much super-duper stuff for V3. But c'est la vie. That's the way of the world. Steve Shanks will have the future Gen2 market for himself - not a bad thing... : ) Interesting point about the Converter though. If it is easy, maybe some merchants will check it out. Dave

And i think it could be possible to convert clothes with the Tailor ? I don't really know how it works... But we already can convert from M2 to M3 (or any other Gen3 characters)... So it is certainly possible to do from M3 to M2...

I'm happy to chime in ;o)...Converting V3 to V2 is pretty easy if its a dress...the places you need to change the mesh are the armpits, a tiny area where the shldr meets the forearm and the small of the back....if the garment has sleeves you can make these adjustments and leave them on a V3 item coz they are small enough not effect the cut of the dress and if you did do it that way you can make them wear the same item (obj wise) if you average the cut for the collar to shldr joint..thats about the only place there is a big difference between the two (top half wise)....you'll still need 2 cr2's though but the real good thing with this is the morphs work on both versions....if its a strappy dress that would show the V2 fitting, you can again use the same mesh (and therefore the same morphs) if you create a V2 morph on it..should be easy as its just a case of pulling the straps fwd to fit V2..this won't work on pants, or at least it will work but i think to much of a compromise (buttock length is the problem)..Mike is not as simple coz the meshes are very different, but if you can create a full body morph to create the others shape you could again make them use the same mesh, i'm going to experiment with this later.....But if your clothing has no morphs then its a simple as modding it to fit the other figure then recutting the joints, creating the cr2 shouldn't take long with the amount of cr2 creating or modding tools around......On the subject of creating both i don't think i've ever created anything for Mike# or Vicky# and NOT had an email asking for a version for the other Mike or Vicky so i'd say there are plenty that haven't gone for the V3 figures....personally i prefer V3 over 2 but am 50 50 on the mikes depending on the look i want........Steve

I have a feeling that it's somewhat like some other things I've run itno of late. Once a product comes out, it seems like alot of artists are moving on the their NEXT BIG THING. It doesn;t matter if something doesn't work right, or if there's and easy fix.. they've already moved on, and want to put that behind them. A great example is the Power Pixie I did. The original Pixie didn't have Mimic support, and rather then update the Pixie, the solution became my additions of Mimic compatibility in the PowerPixie enhancement. I haven't forgotten the PP at all, but have he very little feedback about anything wrong with him, or any input from people who want things made FOR him. Plus I'm sure V2 sales are far less then V3 right now... and if there's no monetary reason to make something converted, then alot of people just move on the their NBT.

Gareee, one of the reasons why people won't tell you what's wrong with PP is.. that there's nothing wrong ;o) I think one of the things that holds him down is that is IS a pretty niche character. Don't get me wrong, as you know I love the guy, but even then I haven't made many PICTURES with him. Heck I've bought both Koshini 2 and Krystal and I haven't even OPENED them yet. They're installed and that's about it. Same with Zot and the hippos from the Heavies. The pic I showed you the other day was actually the first I ever did with the hippos LOL - and the elephants? I've used Eric ONCE. But it doesn't mean I don't like the characters (else I wouldn't buy them L) it just means that there's only so many hours in a day and regretfully I can't play with ALL my poser charaters at the same time. Also PP is being a bit buried, unfortunately. I'm really looking forward to whatever you're doing next, I admire the way you enhance these characters, and that might start an interest in your other products as well :o) As for the question of clothes to both M2 and M3: Sure I'd love that. As well as something for those poor KIDS too! Perhaps even something for Will and Penny?

Oh yeah, I know the PP is a niche kind of character, and there are just SO many of them now! And he's not near perfect.. I've learned a few things since I did him, and would have built them into him, had I the knowledge at the time. And there will be more of a reason to break out your dusty Hippos soon... This shows off some of the barnyard morph pack, and the Sheriff set.. the Sheriff set is going to Daz after breakfast today. There are 4 different things I have coming out for the original Heavies all told. 2 sets morph and textures them into other animals, like the Bull seen in the pic. There's the Bull/Cow/Pig/WartHawg set, and, the Moose and Turtle set. The animal sets will include an enhancement set with over 30 headmorphs, and some new facial enhancing props. It will be available searately, if people don't want/need the other animal types. I have a composite render of most everything, but it needs reworking, because I had to make some concessions to meet with Dark Whisper's vision of thier direction. We'll probably be working closer in the future, to support them a little more (and probably the other Heavies sets),as well.

Love it!

Steve will tell yah, I was one of those that emailed him a couple of months ago begging that he continue to support V2. I'm using V3 for some things now because of clothing styles I have purchased which are V3 specific. When looking through the Marketplace for purchasing, I do look for Packages which state that have versions of the clothing for both V2 and V3, though there aren't many of those. V2 still has a lot more clothes than V3 (and V3 has SO much fewer Free items). I prefer V2 because she's easier to use (I hate Morph Injection, it clutters up my Pose folder). However V3 does pose better. I purchased the Clothing converter, but haven't even installed it. I suppose even though the idea is really cool, actually going into the program and working with the clothing, is intimidating to me. sigh And it's not like I'm tackling converting a Posette costume to V3....just converting from V2 to V3. I have Mike 3 but haven't installed him (yuck, more folders to clutter my Pose Folder!). And there's not nearly enough clothing for Mike2 or Mike3 (hint, sexy, fetish type oriented clothing, or cool cyberwear). I guess what I'm saying is that I'd LOVE to have V3 versions of some of the great V2 clothes I have. I'd also like to see more Free V3 clothing, it seems the vast majority of clothing for V3 is for sale (though I understand the economy these days and we could all use an extra buck or two.) grin Steve, while you're here, V3 needs some more boots for variety (different lengths. I don't have any thigh highs).......and gloves of different kinds or arm bands. I've taken some Saloon Girl items and applied leather textures to them to get Fetish clothing piece for V2......oh, just wishing........ Liz Pope Latexluv

Ah! I bought clothes convertor, but haven't installed it yet myself! I've been too busy working on the heavies expansions...

You can combine the Injection folders & cut down on clutter. You can also inject your favorite morphs and save that V3 to your library, saving yourself time.

Well I have the CLothes convertor, and I'm working on converting various older PW pieces. Its is a bit tricky and NOT soemhting I'd recomend for your average user. Its a multistep, multiprogram operation and still isn't 100% perfect. But when I finally got the Mike PW Combat suit on to my MayaDude? wow :) now thats a feeling of accomplishment. Stuff like boots, sleeveless tops, belts and loosefitting garments are much easier to convert. So are clothes for similarly jointed figures ... ie S3 to V3 is easy, V3 to M3 slightly harder, V3 to V2 annoying, and V3 to posette ..shoot yourself. Going from V2 to the milkids, Mayadoll and Judy is not that bad though. Once I have a garment fitted to the base figure its easy enough to use Tailor to get it the rest of the way to fit the morphs. I am planning on doing a set of Goth/Fetish textures for exisitng PW items .... if Steve doesn't run screaming grin I was out at the goth club moshing the other night and did a lot of crowd watching. A simple texture change will get some great clubwear ... and I'm working on accessories. Modeling is fun :) Also some P5 shaders for simple stuff like different fishnets, leather, skull prints, latex, plaids ... Lyrra "Maker of Shiny Things"

Hey, Lyrra, you're talking right down my alley! There are several PW things I downloaded, knowing I could change them to goth/Fetish wear with some simple leather texturing. I used some items from the Saloon Girl to do just this. Now that I'm using V3 more (though I cringe when I do), I'd dearly love to have some of the items from my V2 Fetish collection converted over to V3. But it really does sound like clothing Converter can make you pull your hair out. sigh I guess I'll attempt something with the program soon. I'll be looking for your stuff soon on PW!!!! Liz (P.S. wink We know each other from a couple of years ago. I was posting as Dreamspinner a long time ago, and I believe we corresponded a few times back then.)

Liz I recognized your name :) Well I'm going to be trying my hand at some of the older items .. I love the skirts from the Saloon gals myself..they make great fetishdoll outfits. I think that Steve would get all panicky if I put them on M3 though looks evil Steve just put up my first update ..theres some MAT files for the Cybersuits for latex and so on ... V3 looks lovely in black latex unzipped to her .... navel smirk think that should keep you busy until I've got some more work done. Oh and some incredibly bishi m3 elf faces (if you have him)... I just couldn't resist the opportunity